Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3692371)

The Z no matter what variant is a modders car, depending on your level of "need" for comfort ultimately is the question. The sport is unquestionably more comfortable imo over longer drives and in traffic. But if you want comfort get a G. The Z will require modifications no matter what. 8k in your pocket will go a long way in making a better driving experience. Whether or not you want to go down that rabbit hole is dependent on how hard you plan on driving. The Nismo up to about 7 or 8 tenths driving pace works significantly better without having to worry about modifications. The Sport shows its colors anywhere close to aggressive driving with increased body roll, increased understeer and slower transitional response.

The Nismo can handle stickier tires better on the stock suspension. So at the very minimum all you'd want is a set of tires capable of handling additional abuse. Stepping up in size is slightly more advantageous than outright racing tires in the same size. Something that can handle wet and dry without being horrible in one or the other. Like the new contisport or ps4 in a plus size.

Originally Posted by danegrey (Post 3692345)

Nismo if your not going to mod
Sport if your going to mod

Went sport, because I did mods
Like stated above Nismo is great and different look, but I would not mod if I bought one

Originally Posted by KCZ (Post 3692462)

When I test drove a Sport, I thought the body roll was horrendous. How much better is the Nismo, for those of you who've actually driven both?

Originally Posted by danegrey (Post 3692345)

Nismo if your not going to mod
Sport if your going to mod

Went sport, because I did mods
Like stated above Nismo is great and different look, but I would not mod if I bought one

Originally Posted by analogman (Post 3692031)

1) Is the Nismo worth the price premium over a Sport? Whether it's new or used, it seems a Nismo is about $8,000 more than a Sport. I like the Nismo better and can afford it, but don't like to make a habit of spending money unnecessarily. On 'paper', the Sport looks to be about 90% of the Nismo. I've driven both, but would appreciate the thoughts of those that have had more seat time as to whether or not it's worth the price premium.

2) For those with Nismo's, how comfortable are the Recaro seats to live with on longer drives? I've taken a couple of test drives in a Nismo for about 20 minutes. They feel fine to me for that time, but things can be different for a multi-hour drive. The car won't be my daily driver, just a weekend fun toy, but I'd still like to be able to take it on trips.

Thanks everyone!

Originally Posted by Cranberry (Post 3693052)

Nissan is attempting to advertise the NISMO name as a race grade product but it really just isn't, infact when I ran the nismo suspension for 3 races last year, I ended up taking it out and putting in the base model suspension because I found it handled better

Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3693068)

This is very much dependent on tires and tire size. The Nismo suspension in most cases will and can handle stickier tires better. For normal tires it may actually make it feel worse like you said.

Originally Posted by Cranberry (Post 3693241)

I run Michelin super sport tires, these are mid level race grade tires before going to compound that is so soft you get less then 2000 km to a set.

To put it in perspective, the tires I run are the same tires that Porsche puts on the GT4 race cars out of the box. They are very sticky :happydance:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3693403)

I'll have to disagree* earnestly. The PSS are not even remotely the same as cup 2's or even extreme tires for that matter. They lack the tread block rigidity and overall sidewall support as tires of race compounds. They may be good, but they are not comparable to Cup 2's or something in the Extreme category such as the ZII's, BF rivals or RE71's.

They are not race grade tires. Extremes can handle more than 10k miles on and off the track certainly with a uprated sizes. I was able to get over 15k miles on my RS3's on my heavier G37 and over 20k miles on my Direzza ZIIs on my VW R32, and that was even on a undersized tire for the weight of the car and significant abuse on and off the track. Both of these tires can out handle PSS's as well as last just as long with better heat control.

I don't know what size tire you use, but i assure you they do not stack up to the latest offerings in the extreme class of tires. And yes, i have used the PSS on my car before. On the R32, and the ZII's and BF rivals out handled them immensely.

Originally Posted by Cranberry (Post 3694124)

I don't know what it is your debating with me here lol?

I compared them to being decent enough to be considered by Porsche as the tire they send there gt4 race spec cars off the lot on that can handle street and track use.

Originally Posted by b15 (Post 3693061)

I chose my 2010 touring/sport/nav over the Nismo because of the base model interior and the ugly wing at that time. However, Nissan finally got it together for the 15+ Nismo. In my opinion, if you're looking at a 15+, I would get the Nismo with tech. The 15+ Nismo looks great and finally has the touring/nav interior. Great combo if you ask me.

Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3694158)

My original point was about how the nismo suspension can handle tires with higher traction limits. Such as an extreme or competition tires.

Originally Posted by b15 (Post 3694422)

That's debatable. Other than opinion, I haven't seen much data that supports the Nismo as a better handler/posts better track times. They're about equal for the most part. Yes the Nismo is firmer sprung, but that doesn't equate to better handling. Suspension aside, the Nismo does have additional chassis bracing which will help the car feel more solid.

Originally Posted by pickardracing (Post 3693326)

I bought a '12 Nismo. As far as I'm concerned, buying anything less is selling yourself short. As a previous poster already said, the Nismo essentially has all the aftermarket goodies you'd want already equipped. It looks 10x better than the base and sport packages. Upgrade the stereo, put good rubber on it, and enjoy it. For someone like myself who likes to modify stuff, buying the Nismo saved me time and effort. I can just drive the car. Only my opinion, but if you like the looks and the mods, just spend the cash up front.

Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3694430)

I'm not sure you read what i said correctly.

Originally Posted by b15 (Post 3694593)

I did. Explain how "it handle tires with higher traction limits". What exactly is so different about the suspension that enables this?

And for what it's worth, there's actually an Edmunds comparison that's been around forever showing the '09 Nismo posting worse times than an '09 Sport. Nismo is wears larger, better tires stock and we all know the RE050 on the sports are terrible.

Originally Posted by b15 (Post 3694422)

That's debatable. Other than opinion, I haven't seen much data that supports the Nismo as a better handler/posts better track times. They're about equal for the most part. Yes the Nismo is firmer sprung, but that doesn't equate to better handling. Suspension aside, the Nismo does have additional chassis bracing which will help the car feel more solid.

Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3694711)

I already made my point on the first page, so i still don't think you understand what i said.

Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3692371)

The Z no matter what variant is a modders car, depending on your level of "need" for comfort ultimately is the question. The sport is unquestionably more comfortable imo over longer drives and in traffic. But if you want comfort get a G. The Z will require modifications no matter what. 8k in your pocket will go a long way in making a better driving experience. Whether or not you want to go down that rabbit hole is dependent on how hard you plan on driving. The Nismo up to about 7 or 8 tenths driving pace works significantly better without having to worry about modifications. The Sport shows its colors anywhere close to aggressive driving with increased body roll, increased understeer and slower transitional response.

The Nismo can handle stickier tires better on the stock suspension. So at the very minimum all you'd want is a set of tires capable of handling additional abuse. Stepping up in size is slightly more advantageous than outright racing tires in the same size. Something that can handle wet and dry without being horrible in one or the other. Like the new contisport or ps4 in a plus size.

Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3693068)

This is very much dependent on tires and tire size. The Nismo suspension in most cases will and can handle stickier tires better. For normal tires it may actually make it feel worse like you said.

Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3693403)

I'll have to disagree* earnestly. The PSS are not even remotely the same as cup 2's or even extreme tires for that matter. They lack the tread block rigidity and overall sidewall support as tires of race compounds. They may be good, but they are not comparable to Cup 2's or something in the Extreme category such as the ZII's, BF rivals or RE71's.

They are not race grade tires. Extremes can handle more than 10k miles on and off the track certainly with a uprated sizes. I was able to get over 15k miles on my RS3's on my heavier G37 and over 20k miles on my Direzza ZIIs on my VW R32, and that was even on a undersized tire for the weight of the car and significant abuse on and off the track. Both of these tires can out handle PSS's as well as last just as long with better heat control.

I don't know what size tire you use, but i assure you they do not stack up to the latest offerings in the extreme class of tires. And yes, i have used the PSS on my car before. On the R32, and the ZII's and BF rivals out handled them immensely.

Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3694158)

I think this is the confusion. The GT4 uses cup2 tires, atleast here where i live. If the GT4 where you live comes with PSS, then i feel sorry for whoever buys it there lol. So it sounded like you were saying the pss tires is as good as the cup2 tires. And the other part about them being "mid level" race grade tires, which they are not, for whatever that means. They are very good street tires.

My original point was about how the nismo suspension can handle tires with higher traction limits. Such as an extreme or competition tires.

Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3694711)

As for the comparison, nothing about the Nismo's tire package is better than the sport. They both use a 245 front, and this size actually suites the 9 inch wheel on the sport better, a 9.5 should have a 255 at minimum. The rear nismo is only a size bigger at 285 vs 275. Not a big difference at all. It's also proven the Bridgestone is better than the Yokahama, thus the reason almost every car company has ditched the advan for the Bridgestone Re050A or S001. The skidpad tests alone indicated the Yokahama's are nothing to brag about. The advan sport was replaced 3 times over since 2008. Where as the Re050A was only updated once. So for however terrible they are, the advan is worse, giving the Nismo very little performance advantage, if any. The current Nismo uses the S001, which is still categorically not the best in-class, but much improved compared to the old, worst in-class advan sport. For a standard summer tire setup, i'd agree the stock sport suspension will work the tires better. But the stiffer nismo suspension will yield a more stable balance with larger high grip tires.

Originally Posted by b15 (Post 3694748)

So stiffer = better? So then why are most BMW Ms much more comfortable. Solely based on ones I've driven they feel softer sprung yet dampened better than my sport Z (stock and on swifts), let alone a Nismo Z. Yet they seem to out handle the Z. Stiffer = better right? :confused:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3694800)

Stiffer means more stability with increased corner loads. I'm sorry you don't get that. And how do you know the exact spring rates and damper force of BMW's?
Did you measure them? Considering most of the recent M cars are heavier than the Z, the spring rates are unquestionably greater. So clearly you have no accurate bases here.

You glossed over this >

Which is as much of an explanation needed on why the Nismo suspension can handle better tires, which is what i said several times now. A tire with a higher level of grip will create a greater level of corner loads during turns, acceleration and braking. A softer suspension would be too loose and won't allow the tire to work properly. Too much roll, dive and squat is increased weight transfer, which is not good for tire traction and balance across all the points of contact.

I'm not trying to get into this debate as this is not a discussion on suspension setups. I've made these debates already in the suspension and track setup sections. My position is already argued on this matter, your lack of understanding on these dynamics should be shifted to those threads.

Anyone here that has used different tires will tell you, one tire may feel better or handle better with a certain suspension setup and not on something stiffer or softer. Firmer works better with high corner loads, softer feels better with low loads. This is not a guide on vehicle dynamics. If you want further explanations on this, PM me or go read a book on vehicle dynamics. I have several suggestions. If you don't like reading, modify your car accordingly and go test it out for yourself at your local track or Canyon like i have and many others here. AND lastly if you've already done either-or, then i don't know why i even have to explain this any further. :confused:

You are having a debate about "comfort" when my point was about actual handling physics. They are not mutual. If you want to go faster, you need greater stability. You get this from firmer chassis control and better tires. This is what the Nismo offers out of the box compared to the sport/touring package, apart from the tires. Thus my suggestion of only needing to upgrade tires.

Originally Posted by b15 (Post 3694850)

I'm thinking about replacing my suspension on my corolla with steel rods to firm it up. Should be able to handle cup2s pretty well on the canyons!