Nismo vs Sport ?

b15 · 09-20-2017, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

I already made my point on the first page, so i still don't think you understand what i said.

You did? Let see here....

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

The Z no matter what variant is a modders car, depending on your level of "need" for comfort ultimately is the question. The sport is unquestionably more comfortable imo over longer drives and in traffic. But if you want comfort get a G. The Z will require modifications no matter what. 8k in your pocket will go a long way in making a better driving experience. Whether or not you want to go down that rabbit hole is dependent on how hard you plan on driving. The Nismo up to about 7 or 8 tenths driving pace works significantly better without having to worry about modifications. The Sport shows its colors anywhere close to aggressive driving with increased body roll, increased understeer and slower transitional response.

The Nismo can handle stickier tires better on the stock suspension. So at the very minimum all you'd want is a set of tires capable of handling additional abuse. Stepping up in size is slightly more advantageous than outright racing tires in the same size. Something that can handle wet and dry without being horrible in one or the other. Like the new contisport or ps4 in a plus size.

Don't see your explanation on how the suspension is better set up to handle this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

This is very much dependent on tires and tire size. The Nismo suspension in most cases will and can handle stickier tires better. For normal tires it may actually make it feel worse like you said.

Again, great explanation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

I'll have to disagree* earnestly. The PSS are not even remotely the same as cup 2's or even extreme tires for that matter. They lack the tread block rigidity and overall sidewall support as tires of race compounds. They may be good, but they are not comparable to Cup 2's or something in the Extreme category such as the ZII's, BF rivals or RE71's.

They are not race grade tires. Extremes can handle more than 10k miles on and off the track certainly with a uprated sizes. I was able to get over 15k miles on my RS3's on my heavier G37 and over 20k miles on my Direzza ZIIs on my VW R32, and that was even on a undersized tire for the weight of the car and significant abuse on and off the track. Both of these tires can out handle PSS's as well as last just as long with better heat control.

I don't know what size tire you use, but i assure you they do not stack up to the latest offerings in the extreme class of tires. And yes, i have used the PSS on my car before. On the R32, and the ZII's and BF rivals out handled them immensely.

Cool, you read a lot on tirerack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

I think this is the confusion. The GT4 uses cup2 tires, atleast here where i live. If the GT4 where you live comes with PSS, then i feel sorry for whoever buys it there lol. So it sounded like you were saying the pss tires is as good as the cup2 tires. And the other part about them being "mid level" race grade tires, which they are not, for whatever that means. They are very good street tires.

My original point was about how the nismo suspension can handle tires with higher traction limits. Such as an extreme or competition tires.

More tirerack facts and still no explanation why the nismo can handle sticker tires

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

As for the comparison, nothing about the Nismo's tire package is better than the sport. They both use a 245 front, and this size actually suites the 9 inch wheel on the sport better, a 9.5 should have a 255 at minimum. The rear nismo is only a size bigger at 285 vs 275. Not a big difference at all. It's also proven the Bridgestone is better than the Yokahama, thus the reason almost every car company has ditched the advan for the Bridgestone Re050A or S001. The skidpad tests alone indicated the Yokahama's are nothing to brag about. The advan sport was replaced 3 times over since 2008. Where as the Re050A was only updated once. So for however terrible they are, the advan is worse, giving the Nismo very little performance advantage, if any. The current Nismo uses the S001, which is still categorically not the best in-class, but much improved compared to the old, worst in-class advan sport. For a standard summer tire setup, i'd agree the stock sport suspension will work the tires better. But the stiffer nismo suspension will yield a more stable balance with larger high grip tires.

So stiffer = better? So then why are most BMW Ms much more comfortable. Solely based on ones I've driven they feel softer sprung yet dampened better than my sport Z (stock and on swifts), let alone a Nismo Z. Yet they seem to out handle the Z. Stiffer = better right?

MaysEffect · 09-20-2017, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b15

So stiffer = better? So then why are most BMW Ms much more comfortable. Solely based on ones I've driven they feel softer sprung yet dampened better than my sport Z (stock and on swifts), let alone a Nismo Z. Yet they seem to out handle the Z. Stiffer = better right?

Stiffer means more stability with increased corner loads. I'm sorry you don't get that. And how do you know the exact spring rates and damper force of BMW's?
Did you measure them? Considering most of the recent M cars are heavier than the Z, the spring rates are unquestionably greater. So clearly you have no accurate bases here.

You glossed over this >

Quote:

The Sport shows its colors anywhere close to aggressive driving with increased body roll, increased understeer and slower transitional response.

Which is as much of an explanation needed on why the Nismo suspension can handle better tires, which is what i said several times now. A tire with a higher level of grip will create a greater level of corner loads during turns, acceleration and braking. A softer suspension would be too loose and won't allow the tire to work properly. Too much roll, dive and squat is increased weight transfer, which is not good for tire traction and balance across all the points of contact.

I'm not trying to get into this debate as this is not a discussion on suspension setups. I've made these debates already in the suspension and track setup sections. My position is already argued on this matter, your lack of understanding on these dynamics should be shifted to those threads.

Anyone here that has used different tires will tell you, one tire may feel better or handle better with a certain suspension setup and not on something stiffer or softer. Firmer works better with high corner loads, softer feels better with low loads. This is not a guide on vehicle dynamics. If you want further explanations on this, PM me or go read a book on vehicle dynamics. I have several suggestions. If you don't like reading, modify your car accordingly and go test it out for yourself at your local track or Canyon like i have and many others here. AND lastly if you've already done either-or, then i don't know why i even have to explain this any further.

You are having a debate about "comfort" when my point was about actual handling physics. They are not mutual. If you want to go faster, you need greater stability. You get this from firmer chassis control and better tires. This is what the Nismo offers out of the box compared to the sport/touring package, apart from the tires. Thus my suggestion of only needing to upgrade tires.

Spooler · 09-20-2017, 09:53 PM

He is right about the Nismo suspension. Put the right set of tires on the car and it is very neutral. Most folks can't drive them with good tires to their limit. One guy on here can, but he has a BRZ now. He drove my car on the dragon and the only upgrades it had were RE11 tires and Z1 2 piece rotors with XP8 carbotech pads. He could slither my car around a turn. Unfortunately, he slowed down because I was turning white from the 2 herniated disks in my neck (Painful). I stuck my car in a turn today and it had way more to go, My neck let me know not to go any further even though I have had one disk fixed. Looks like track days are out for a little while longer.

b15 · 09-21-2017, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

Stiffer means more stability with increased corner loads. I'm sorry you don't get that. And how do you know the exact spring rates and damper force of BMW's?
Did you measure them? Considering most of the recent M cars are heavier than the Z, the spring rates are unquestionably greater. So clearly you have no accurate bases here.

You glossed over this >

Which is as much of an explanation needed on why the Nismo suspension can handle better tires, which is what i said several times now. A tire with a higher level of grip will create a greater level of corner loads during turns, acceleration and braking. A softer suspension would be too loose and won't allow the tire to work properly. Too much roll, dive and squat is increased weight transfer, which is not good for tire traction and balance across all the points of contact.

I'm not trying to get into this debate as this is not a discussion on suspension setups. I've made these debates already in the suspension and track setup sections. My position is already argued on this matter, your lack of understanding on these dynamics should be shifted to those threads.

Anyone here that has used different tires will tell you, one tire may feel better or handle better with a certain suspension setup and not on something stiffer or softer. Firmer works better with high corner loads, softer feels better with low loads. This is not a guide on vehicle dynamics. If you want further explanations on this, PM me or go read a book on vehicle dynamics. I have several suggestions. If you don't like reading, modify your car accordingly and go test it out for yourself at your local track or Canyon like i have and many others here. AND lastly if you've already done either-or, then i don't know why i even have to explain this any further.

You are having a debate about "comfort" when my point was about actual handling physics. They are not mutual. If you want to go faster, you need greater stability. You get this from firmer chassis control and better tires. This is what the Nismo offers out of the box compared to the sport/touring package, apart from the tires. Thus my suggestion of only needing to upgrade tires.

Nicely done with the passive aggressive jabs about my lack of understanding. Clearly asking you to clarify a blanket statement equates a lack of knowledge. But hey, you probably know my experiences better than I do!

It's ok. I get the need to overcompensate on the internets

b15 · 09-21-2017, 01:05 AM

Mayseffect you are a god

b15 · 09-21-2017, 01:06 AM

You know so much. All hail Mays.

b15 · 09-21-2017, 01:09 AM

I'm thinking about replacing my suspension on my corolla with steel rods to firm it up. Should be able to handle cup2s pretty well on the canyons!

Zingston · 09-21-2017, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b15

I'm thinking about replacing my suspension on my corolla with steel rods to firm it up. Should be able to handle cup2s pretty well on the canyons!

BobbyLight · 09-21-2017, 10:01 AM

I've never driven a nismo, but I'd be curious to see the actual differences in the bracing of the frame with it all stripped down. Is it just stitch welded or what?

I dont think I'd pay the premium for the nismo. You could get a sport and with the extra money add sways, RE-11's or comparable tire, oil cooler, and something like XR3 or AST coils and have a great handling car. Guess it depends on what you plan to do with it and how much you want to tinker.

B&W_Evader · 09-21-2017, 10:20 AM

I considered the NISMO but the long front end scared me away from it. Figured I'd be scraping it every morning entering the company parking lot. Here's the way I see it.
Part____________NISMO___________________Comment
Swaybar________Stiffer than sport__________Aftermarket is stiffer than NISMO
Wheels_________1/2" wider than sport
Tires___________Can go wider than sport
Body Braces_____More than sport___________Not sure if it's for body or handling
Spring Rate_____Higher than sport__________ Better for track than street
Dampening______More than sport__________ Better for track than street
Brake Calipers____Same as sport
Brake Pads______Stock NISMO pads better_________Easy to swap pads for better ones
Body Kit________Looks way better
Seats_________The new recaros are really nice!
Interior________Lots of NISMO badges!
VLSD__________Same POS as Sport
HP____________+18HP for NISMO__________Exh Upgrade or CAI on sport can equal

boby370z · 09-21-2017, 05:22 PM

Perfectly according with you Evader...

17K more for a brand new Nismo compare to a base one was a way too much for me and thing people did not realize...try a Nismo before to take your decision.

This car is so stiff on the road i would definitely would never use it as a dealy driver...probably i am now too old for that but i used to have Porsche car for more then 26 years (all kind of Porsche but most of the time a 911) and believe me when the suspension is hard as rock you will absolutely never have fun to use it on the street.... at least here where i'm living in Quebec.

Of corse if your intention is to use it most of the time on the race track just buy a Nismo if you can afford, this car is fantastic to drive and it is what you need otherwise just buy a Base or Sport model and you will be totaly satisfy....as i am now....like i said i used to have Porsche for so many years that it is easy for me to compare now and believe me folks you will never get a better sport car for the price of any Z. Of corse i do not compare the new 2018 Porsche with my new 2018 370z but if you compare buying price for buying price you will never find any Porsche that can beat the Z on any way.

Once again spend 17K more for a Nismo does it really worth it....??? did you ever realize foR 17K you can get a brand new car!!!

Robert
2108 370Z
Passion red

Stright_Drop · 09-21-2017, 05:35 PM

There really is no debate except for the suspension that was both entertaining and informative

but UNKNOWN already gave u guys the game. Unless u just don't like both Nismo body kits u don't really have an excuse to not buy a 1 or 2nd owner Nismo for the same price of a sport. Anybody that has taken a nice corner in a base/sport and then a Nismo knows..

Zingston · 09-21-2017, 05:45 PM

OK, so the 3 general takeaways from this thread is see are:

1) Those that bought Nismos love their cars and the extras that come with the higher price.

2) Those that bought the base or sport love their cars and appreciate the value it offers.

3) Everyone seems to love their 370Zs.

Everybody wins. Enjoy...

Stright_Drop · 09-21-2017, 05:51 PM

boby370z · 09-21-2017, 05:53 PM

All right Zingston....... you'r right on!!!!!!!!!!!
Bravo

Robert
2108 370z
Passion red

09-21-2017, 01:05 AM	#35 (permalink)
b15 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,229 Drives: 4drz Rep Power: 36571	Mayseffect you are a god MaysEffect likes this.

09-21-2017, 01:06 AM	#36 (permalink)
b15 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,229 Drives: 4drz Rep Power: 36571	You know so much. All hail Mays. MaysEffect likes this.

09-21-2017, 10:20 AM	#40 (permalink)
B&W_Evader Track Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: CA Posts: 972 Drives: slower than before Rep Power: 387	I considered the NISMO but the long front end scared me away from it. Figured I'd be scraping it every morning entering the company parking lot. Here's the way I see it. Part____________NISMO___________________Comment Swaybar________Stiffer than sport__________Aftermarket is stiffer than NISMO Wheels_________1/2" wider than sport Tires___________Can go wider than sport Body Braces_____More than sport___________Not sure if it's for body or handling Spring Rate_____Higher than sport__________ Better for track than street Dampening______More than sport__________ Better for track than street Brake Calipers____Same as sport Brake Pads______Stock NISMO pads better_________Easy to swap pads for better ones Body Kit________Looks way better Seats_________The new recaros are really nice! Interior________Lots of NISMO badges! VLSD__________Same POS as Sport HP____________+18HP for NISMO__________Exh Upgrade or CAI on sport can equal littlejuanito likes this. __________________ \|RIP\|6spd-sport\|OSG-LSD\|XP8\|RBF600\|Eibach Sways\|RE-71R\|FI-34Row\|Gen3-CAI\|Yaw P.S.\| Last edited by B&W_Evader; 09-21-2017 at 10:37 AM.

09-21-2017, 05:35 PM	#42 (permalink)
Stright_Drop Base Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Jacksonville,Fl Posts: 121 Drives: 2014 Nismo 6speed Rep Power: 13	There really is no debate except for the suspension that was both entertaining and informative but UNKNOWN already gave u guys the game. Unless u just don't like both Nismo body kits u don't really have an excuse to not buy a 1 or 2nd owner Nismo for the same price of a sport. Anybody that has taken a nice corner in a base/sport and then a Nismo knows.. xfrgtr likes this.

09-21-2017, 05:45 PM	#43 (permalink)
Zingston A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2017 Location: Florida Posts: 4,028 Drives: like it's a rental. Rep Power: 2684370	OK, so the 3 general takeaways from this thread is see are: 1) Those that bought Nismos love their cars and the extras that come with the higher price. 2) Those that bought the base or sport love their cars and appreciate the value it offers. 3) Everyone seems to love their 370Zs. Everybody wins. Enjoy... Tick64, Stright_Drop, Cranberry and 1 others like this.

09-20-2017, 09:53 PM	#33 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 13,871 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684392	He is right about the Nismo suspension. Put the right set of tires on the car and it is very neutral. Most folks can't drive them with good tires to their limit. One guy on here can, but he has a BRZ now. He drove my car on the dragon and the only upgrades it had were RE11 tires and Z1 2 piece rotors with XP8 carbotech pads. He could slither my car around a turn. Unfortunately, he slowed down because I was turning white from the 2 herniated disks in my neck (Painful). I stuck my car in a turn today and it had way more to go, My neck let me know not to go any further even though I have had one disk fixed. Looks like track days are out for a little while longer.

09-21-2017, 01:09 AM	#37 (permalink)
b15 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,229 Drives: 4drz Rep Power: 36571	I'm thinking about replacing my suspension on my corolla with steel rods to firm it up. Should be able to handle cup2s pretty well on the canyons!

09-21-2017, 10:01 AM	#39 (permalink)
BobbyLight Base Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 97 Drives: 09 370z BS 6MT Rep Power: 9	I've never driven a nismo, but I'd be curious to see the actual differences in the bracing of the frame with it all stripped down. Is it just stitch welded or what? I dont think I'd pay the premium for the nismo. You could get a sport and with the extra money add sways, RE-11's or comparable tire, oil cooler, and something like XR3 or AST coils and have a great handling car. Guess it depends on what you plan to do with it and how much you want to tinker.

09-21-2017, 05:22 PM	#41 (permalink)
boby370z Base Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Quebec Canada Posts: 32 Drives: 18 370z passion red Rep Power: 8	Perfectly according with you Evader... 17K more for a brand new Nismo compare to a base one was a way too much for me and thing people did not realize...try a Nismo before to take your decision. This car is so stiff on the road i would definitely would never use it as a dealy driver...probably i am now too old for that but i used to have Porsche car for more then 26 years (all kind of Porsche but most of the time a 911) and believe me when the suspension is hard as rock you will absolutely never have fun to use it on the street.... at least here where i'm living in Quebec. Of corse if your intention is to use it most of the time on the race track just buy a Nismo if you can afford, this car is fantastic to drive and it is what you need otherwise just buy a Base or Sport model and you will be totaly satisfy....as i am now....like i said i used to have Porsche for so many years that it is easy for me to compare now and believe me folks you will never get a better sport car for the price of any Z. Of corse i do not compare the new 2018 Porsche with my new 2018 370z but if you compare buying price for buying price you will never find any Porsche that can beat the Z on any way. Once again spend 17K more for a Nismo does it really worth it....??? did you ever realize foR 17K you can get a brand new car!!! Robert 2108 370Z Passion red

09-21-2017, 05:51 PM	#44 (permalink)
Stright_Drop Base Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Jacksonville,Fl Posts: 121 Drives: 2014 Nismo 6speed Rep Power: 13	Zingston likes this.

09-21-2017, 05:53 PM	#45 (permalink)
boby370z Base Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Quebec Canada Posts: 32 Drives: 18 370z passion red Rep Power: 8	All right Zingston....... you'r right on!!!!!!!!!!! Bravo Robert 2108 370z Passion red Zingston likes this.

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