Nismo vs Sport ?

b15 · 09-20-2017, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

I already made my point on the first page, so i still don't think you understand what i said.

You did? Let see here....

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

The Z no matter what variant is a modders car, depending on your level of "need" for comfort ultimately is the question. The sport is unquestionably more comfortable imo over longer drives and in traffic. But if you want comfort get a G. The Z will require modifications no matter what. 8k in your pocket will go a long way in making a better driving experience. Whether or not you want to go down that rabbit hole is dependent on how hard you plan on driving. The Nismo up to about 7 or 8 tenths driving pace works significantly better without having to worry about modifications. The Sport shows its colors anywhere close to aggressive driving with increased body roll, increased understeer and slower transitional response.

The Nismo can handle stickier tires better on the stock suspension. So at the very minimum all you'd want is a set of tires capable of handling additional abuse. Stepping up in size is slightly more advantageous than outright racing tires in the same size. Something that can handle wet and dry without being horrible in one or the other. Like the new contisport or ps4 in a plus size.

Don't see your explanation on how the suspension is better set up to handle this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

This is very much dependent on tires and tire size. The Nismo suspension in most cases will and can handle stickier tires better. For normal tires it may actually make it feel worse like you said.

Again, great explanation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

I'll have to disagree* earnestly. The PSS are not even remotely the same as cup 2's or even extreme tires for that matter. They lack the tread block rigidity and overall sidewall support as tires of race compounds. They may be good, but they are not comparable to Cup 2's or something in the Extreme category such as the ZII's, BF rivals or RE71's.

They are not race grade tires. Extremes can handle more than 10k miles on and off the track certainly with a uprated sizes. I was able to get over 15k miles on my RS3's on my heavier G37 and over 20k miles on my Direzza ZIIs on my VW R32, and that was even on a undersized tire for the weight of the car and significant abuse on and off the track. Both of these tires can out handle PSS's as well as last just as long with better heat control.

I don't know what size tire you use, but i assure you they do not stack up to the latest offerings in the extreme class of tires. And yes, i have used the PSS on my car before. On the R32, and the ZII's and BF rivals out handled them immensely.

Cool, you read a lot on tirerack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

I think this is the confusion. The GT4 uses cup2 tires, atleast here where i live. If the GT4 where you live comes with PSS, then i feel sorry for whoever buys it there lol. So it sounded like you were saying the pss tires is as good as the cup2 tires. And the other part about them being "mid level" race grade tires, which they are not, for whatever that means. They are very good street tires.

My original point was about how the nismo suspension can handle tires with higher traction limits. Such as an extreme or competition tires.

More tirerack facts and still no explanation why the nismo can handle sticker tires

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

As for the comparison, nothing about the Nismo's tire package is better than the sport. They both use a 245 front, and this size actually suites the 9 inch wheel on the sport better, a 9.5 should have a 255 at minimum. The rear nismo is only a size bigger at 285 vs 275. Not a big difference at all. It's also proven the Bridgestone is better than the Yokahama, thus the reason almost every car company has ditched the advan for the Bridgestone Re050A or S001. The skidpad tests alone indicated the Yokahama's are nothing to brag about. The advan sport was replaced 3 times over since 2008. Where as the Re050A was only updated once. So for however terrible they are, the advan is worse, giving the Nismo very little performance advantage, if any. The current Nismo uses the S001, which is still categorically not the best in-class, but much improved compared to the old, worst in-class advan sport. For a standard summer tire setup, i'd agree the stock sport suspension will work the tires better. But the stiffer nismo suspension will yield a more stable balance with larger high grip tires.

So stiffer = better? So then why are most BMW Ms much more comfortable. Solely based on ones I've driven they feel softer sprung yet dampened better than my sport Z (stock and on swifts), let alone a Nismo Z. Yet they seem to out handle the Z. Stiffer = better right?

MaysEffect · 09-20-2017, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b15

So stiffer = better? So then why are most BMW Ms much more comfortable. Solely based on ones I've driven they feel softer sprung yet dampened better than my sport Z (stock and on swifts), let alone a Nismo Z. Yet they seem to out handle the Z. Stiffer = better right?

Stiffer means more stability with increased corner loads. I'm sorry you don't get that. And how do you know the exact spring rates and damper force of BMW's?
Did you measure them? Considering most of the recent M cars are heavier than the Z, the spring rates are unquestionably greater. So clearly you have no accurate bases here.

You glossed over this >

Quote:

The Sport shows its colors anywhere close to aggressive driving with increased body roll, increased understeer and slower transitional response.

Which is as much of an explanation needed on why the Nismo suspension can handle better tires, which is what i said several times now. A tire with a higher level of grip will create a greater level of corner loads during turns, acceleration and braking. A softer suspension would be too loose and won't allow the tire to work properly. Too much roll, dive and squat is increased weight transfer, which is not good for tire traction and balance across all the points of contact.

I'm not trying to get into this debate as this is not a discussion on suspension setups. I've made these debates already in the suspension and track setup sections. My position is already argued on this matter, your lack of understanding on these dynamics should be shifted to those threads.

Anyone here that has used different tires will tell you, one tire may feel better or handle better with a certain suspension setup and not on something stiffer or softer. Firmer works better with high corner loads, softer feels better with low loads. This is not a guide on vehicle dynamics. If you want further explanations on this, PM me or go read a book on vehicle dynamics. I have several suggestions. If you don't like reading, modify your car accordingly and go test it out for yourself at your local track or Canyon like i have and many others here. AND lastly if you've already done either-or, then i don't know why i even have to explain this any further.

You are having a debate about "comfort" when my point was about actual handling physics. They are not mutual. If you want to go faster, you need greater stability. You get this from firmer chassis control and better tires. This is what the Nismo offers out of the box compared to the sport/touring package, apart from the tires. Thus my suggestion of only needing to upgrade tires.

b15 · 09-21-2017, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect

Stiffer means more stability with increased corner loads. I'm sorry you don't get that. And how do you know the exact spring rates and damper force of BMW's?
Did you measure them? Considering most of the recent M cars are heavier than the Z, the spring rates are unquestionably greater. So clearly you have no accurate bases here.

You glossed over this >

Which is as much of an explanation needed on why the Nismo suspension can handle better tires, which is what i said several times now. A tire with a higher level of grip will create a greater level of corner loads during turns, acceleration and braking. A softer suspension would be too loose and won't allow the tire to work properly. Too much roll, dive and squat is increased weight transfer, which is not good for tire traction and balance across all the points of contact.

I'm not trying to get into this debate as this is not a discussion on suspension setups. I've made these debates already in the suspension and track setup sections. My position is already argued on this matter, your lack of understanding on these dynamics should be shifted to those threads.

Anyone here that has used different tires will tell you, one tire may feel better or handle better with a certain suspension setup and not on something stiffer or softer. Firmer works better with high corner loads, softer feels better with low loads. This is not a guide on vehicle dynamics. If you want further explanations on this, PM me or go read a book on vehicle dynamics. I have several suggestions. If you don't like reading, modify your car accordingly and go test it out for yourself at your local track or Canyon like i have and many others here. AND lastly if you've already done either-or, then i don't know why i even have to explain this any further.

You are having a debate about "comfort" when my point was about actual handling physics. They are not mutual. If you want to go faster, you need greater stability. You get this from firmer chassis control and better tires. This is what the Nismo offers out of the box compared to the sport/touring package, apart from the tires. Thus my suggestion of only needing to upgrade tires.

Nicely done with the passive aggressive jabs about my lack of understanding. Clearly asking you to clarify a blanket statement equates a lack of knowledge. But hey, you probably know my experiences better than I do!

It's ok. I get the need to overcompensate on the internets

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