Word of Caution

LunaZ

The OP shows great honesty and humility in his account of his incident (e.g., "ran out of talent') while his critics... not so much.
I can't believe the righteous soapbox that some people stand on when they get behind the keyboard. I'm willing to bet it doesn't match their attitude behind the wheel. Otherwise, why buy a Z other than to look at it being pretty in your driveway?

The OP's use of track terms to describe his off does not indicate "racing moves" being performed on the street. Instead, these terms indicate that he knows the proper line through a turn, where the apex is, when to brake and when to be on the gas.
In my opinion, EVERYONE who drives anything should know those things. I'm pretty sick of people carving into my lane as they cut through a corner, or watching them run wide because they've turned in too early and they're pointing the wrong way at the exit of the corner.
Of course, putting down the mobile and the coffee and driving with two hands would help, but that's another story.

Personally, I'm a fan of the VDC.
As others have mentioned, when you're smooth, you know the system is working, but you don't feel that it's interfering; it actually feels like it's helping you go faster by aiding in car control.
Just this morning, I was raving about how nice the system was as I trail braked to set the nose into a left-right series and started applying the power slightly before the apex as I got the car pointed towards the next turn.
VDC FTW!

I'm a former motorcycle racer, trackday instructor, and SCCA solo driver.
I enjoy my version of a Sunday drive. Take that anyway you want to take it.

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2009 370Z Sport/Touring/Navigation | see my journal for mods
facebook: Be my friend... or not.

kenchan

but some guy crashed into his garage door or another car while backing out. very skeptical system if you asked me.

Lemers

Was the tree alright? I hope it wasn't hurt.

Joint PETV. People for the Ethical Treatment of Vegetables!

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2010 Black Cherry Touring/Sport/Nav Now - 2012 Travese LTZ until I leave for Turkey

sonic370

Glad your ok. Sorry about the Z. It doesn't look totaled i'm guessing around
10 to 11 grand.
As for myself a guy's got to know his limitations i drive with vdc on.

UNKNOWN_370

Ummmm, Luna Z. Before you went on a rant, did you realize this thread is from december 12,2009, the op was a member for a month and had a total of 10 posts. One thing you gotta learn quick is this. "Terminology is just terminology". You might get easily impressed with people using track terms here and there but honestly it can be picked up on any forum so, your perception of this op being knowledgeable based off of one or ten posts is moot.
One quote you didn't catch on to was " Live another day and drive a ford". Ok what did that mean? Did he mean he feels safer mustang? Or did he mean? Live another day drive a ford focus or anything ford without horsepower. Either way fords are beneath nissans in overall saftety features and ratings so I really don't get that comment?
Honestly, what I see is an op with a not a lack of knowledge, but a lack of skill set and an underestimation of his vehicle. I also see his experience doesn't lie in high tech import sports cars and has more knowledge of driving american vehicles which have a totally different set of driving dynamics. So he underestimated 270lbs of torque, which sounds weak compared to american high torque muscle. And he wound up spinning out. Yes he's most likely was right about his tires. But that was only part of the problem.
The Z is a short wheelbase sports car and unlike a longer wheelbase GT, the Z has a sort of unstable nature which most underestimate. The car's overall design is for lower speed high handling sports, like autoX while packing the power of a GT racer. The turning radius and lane change cycle of the Z in higher speed and aggressive maneuvers need a certain amount of practice to master. And truth is, most of you buy this car and after the car is broken in, y'all think its mario andretti time. That's why Z forum has more new car accidents than any other car brand forum.
Let's face it, truth be told, a pretty large portion of you on here are underskilled for the cars.you drive. And I'm not saying you can't buy a Z... what I'm saying is take the time to...
A. Learn traffic laws, and common driving etiquette.
B. Acquire sports car driving skill before attempting maneuvers.
You can drive several years and if you never drove, RWD, manual and or a high horsepower vehicle or even just a vehicle of a much different size. I would give myself 5k to 10k miles before I start trying aggressive maneuvers. Id set up track days as much as I can afford to or learn my cars potential in an empty lot.
At the end of the day it sucks that the op had an accident. But by saying he'll live another day in a ford. He admitted that he just disdnt have enough skill in his car to take that turn at that speed, and lacked knowledge of his cars dynamics till after the fact.
Finally, I understand what you mean about members playing the self righteous role when someone makes a lesson learned confession, there's is a lot of blind leading the blind goin on in the forum as well. But the op didn't exhibit anything but honesty and using a few choice descriptive words but he still voided himself enough time to learn his vehicles dynamics.
And you being a scca, track day driver blah blah blah on Sunday, I would think you can see where the op went wrong. Obviously, he applied gas in the turn, in a fwd, that would make you go extremely wide and make the car extremely hard to straighten. On a RWD it will cause the rear to slide out then the wheels will start to spin. If you don't let go of the gas and start to calmly direct your steering wheel back in line while applying 0 to light pressure on the brake you will wipe out. Once you regain stability, immediately press the brake firmly and slow your car down. That's the safest way to fix that problem and that's NOT what happened. He wiped out and vdc couldn't correct it cuz he applied too much gas. Unless this is a toyota and it accelerated on its own? Lol.

LunaZ

I can accept or agree with everything you're saying, except at the end where you mention "VDC couldn't correct it..." He had it turned off.

This thread was linked back to in another thread about VDC, and after reading everyone trashing the OP (yeah, he made a mistake... haven't we all?), I felt compelled to add my two cents. Is that against the rules?

__________________

2009 370Z Sport/Touring/Navigation | see my journal for mods
facebook: Be my friend... or not.

Duncanz

Unknown_370 your pretty close to the facts in your response to LunaZ. My underestimate and lack of knowledge of the 370z did have a large factor in my accident, however the number of posts has nothing to do with my ability or commitment to my enthusiasm for Motorsports. Prior to and after the accident I have had several HPDE sessions at BMW and you are correct that the differences in these cars and the Z are significant.

The comment about the "drive a ford and live forever" is just a joke from a long time ago and I thought some of the old school members might catch it. I first saw the comment "Speed kills, drive a Ford and live forever" implying that fords were slow, this was on the rear of '70 Chevelle. So the old Chevy vs Fords.

Now an update: yes the z was totaled, so I waited for the 09s to come down on price at the dealer and in March purchased a new 370z Sports Package and went with the 7at this time. And I'm still engaging the forum periodically and appreciate all the info that this forum has and is pulling together. I am also keeping VDC on and continue to learn the dynamics of the Z.

Oh yeah the tree survived!

UNKNOWN_370

Ok... don't take the amount of posts thing wrong. All I was saying is luna Z can't judge your knowledge based on a few terminologies. Not saying you aren't knowledgeable. If u read my post again, you will see that's not what I'm saying. What I was saying is what you already stated. You underestimated the Z and my assumption based on your comment is that you came from a whole other type of car.
I'm most definately not questioning your love for motorsports and different types of vehicles. Also I'm not saying that you don't know how to drive. I'm just sayting you applied too much power in your turn and reason is, you still did not understand the full potential of your vehicle.
I don't recall the old ford ads so I thought you meant you felt safer in a ford. Lol, judging by your post is about an accident you had, that was my interpretation.

UNKNOWN_370

It depends on the situation... you can't say VDC could have fixed or not fixed it. If he came into the turn to fast and was trying to stabilize the car and used the proper method to stabilize the car. VDC will kick in and he will succeed in what began as a possible fail of a turn. Now if the driver came into a turn to fast and his instinct went against the general laws of physics that would allow him to correct his mistake. The vdc couldn't correct his lack of skill, therefore the accident will happen regardless.
Vdc is an aid to a skilled driver that may miscalculate a move but can and will recovery from a sudden mistake. The vdc will multiply the evasive maneuver and put the driver back on track quicker than he can do on his own. But when that driver didn't use proper procedure or instinct. He will fail, because VDC is no miracle software. Just like most components of a car. The car can only aid in prevention. VDC can't prevent all on its own.

PS. No one is saying its against the rules. But your analysis of the whole situation is as narrow as the narrowminded members you criticise. And for a so called racer I expected you to post with a more objective view. I do see your frustration though. The OP is being honest and he should be commented with a little more respect. Respect is something that seems to fall short here at times.

Duncanz

In my specific case I do believe the VDC would have compensated for my ignorance with this specific car. And so that is why I started the post. Many factors played a part in my crash and any number of things could have prevented it. It just so happens that the most important part was the gray matter between my ears. Many of the responses have entertained and several have actually helped so it's been worth my time. Think I'll go pull the stop light fuse next........just kiddn'.

LunaZ

I said he made a mistake. How is that not being objective?
"So called racer." Now who's throwing stones?
Okay, listen... you're right. I know that's you need to hear, and you can't tell me it's not, because you've written practically written a novel to make sure I know it's clear that you're right.
God, I love philosophizing tough guys on the internet.
Good day!

__________________

2009 370Z Sport/Touring/Navigation | see my journal for mods
facebook: Be my friend... or not.

WarmAndSCSI

Just going to throw this out there... given everything the OP disclosed about his driving experience previously in the thread, your reply was spot-on. Not out of line at all.

And it doesn't matter that you bumped the thread after however many months. Who cares? If anything, it gave the OP the chance to update us on his replacement Z.

UNKNOWN seems to have just wanted to pick a fight. It was his posts, not yours, that implied he had not read the entire contents of this thread already.

This is over. LunaZ wins.

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UNKNOWN_370

No doubt. I feel you bro. None of us are perfect. We all make are mistakes. N we all have our moments. And that's what can make a forum great. And the info should help those careless drivers think twice about how they drive. I just hope u never took it like I was knockin you bro. And good luck with your new Z.

UNKNOWN_370

Sorry I am coming across like I was picking a fight. Its not that. I guess my main issue was one comment.. the fact that the op used track related terminology, that suddenly made him an expert that realized his mistake. This is where I felt objectivity was flawed. For anyone to base someones driving experience through one post would be a flawed way to judge someone whether positive or negative
I do agree with most of luna Z's statement but I also disagree with him but I just felt his post went to the left at certain points. Certain issues in the topic are overstated and some understated. That's where hostility reigns in most of these threads. I would not pick a fight and luna Z I apologize if u think I'm picking. I upset u. Sorry. Crucifying someone is not my style. Its not like I'm putting up stupid pics and calling luna names. I'm not into that.

As far as this being an old post goes. I just found it strange that someone would pull this particular post 7 months after the fact. But now I understand it was part of an attached VDC post. Which I must say is another overstated issue on the forum IMHO. But hey,,, knock yourselves out.

No hard feelings. Ill shut up now.

shumby

I like kittens

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