Nismo vs. Sti
 

Kinda surprised at the outcome, most car rags arent very polite to the Z34.

Did I hear the guy right, he said 3.5 liter v6?

3.7 V6 RWD coupe vs 2.5L i4 AWD sedan - could not be more different platforms but they're sorta in same predicament - they're both kinda outdated

The Z34 is using the same VQ found in everything, with a dated chassis that is compromised by its dual-use in the G. Without the need for back seats I bet they coulda shrunk it down and shaved a couple hundred pounds, and then we're really cooking. But cost savings/parts sharing is where its at.

OTOH The STi is using the flawed 2.5L turbo thats around 10 years old and still has the same rod knock issue that it had when it came back. You basically need to budget in a rebuild if you're gonna mod it. The platform is also compromised by weight due to being a sedan and growing substantially from the GC8 over the generations.

Neither is really "bang for the buck" and you should be easily able to find good used versions of the same car for substantially less. I think you'd be an idiot to pay sticker on a new Z34 or Sti when you get save upwards of 10 grand for basically the same damn thing.

Factory turbo means you can add power cheaper on the Sti - to a point. With a full liter of displacement advantage the Z will always have more upside if you have the cash. And the chassis is better.

The driving experience - i got the Z because it isn't dependent on electronic AWD assistance and it would be a more raw experience. But if i wanted a second car lightly modded to bomb around in and handle wet conditions, i'd consider an STi.

random:

the STi trim adds way more to the base wrx than the nismo to the sport i think. Upgraded brakes, suspension, transmission, engine, wing. But the wrx might be a better value for certain intended uses. The Z always gonna be more limited b/c its coupe (although apparently some people want to turn it into a comfy DD SUV)

My brother recently purchased the new STi and the rod knock occurred after only 1,200 miles. Had the engine gutted and rebuilt.

Yeah Subaru has the FB20F (2.0 turbo in WRx) which is much newer than the STi engine.

Presumably that will yield the engine in the next generation STi

Seems like even less reason to buy the current Sti at new prices. It's about to be outdated. Buy a used one and rebuild the engine for durability, then go to town.

Z34's VQ37 is old but i don't see a Z35 on the horizon ($$$ reasons). They'd probably use the Q60 engine. It might lose a manual transmission, a deal breaker.

I have a SC Nismo 2012 and a 16 STI with a stage 3 Cobb

The Z is a blast to drive but on the track i feel more confident in the STI
I think this has to do in part with the STI being cheaper vs the amount of money i have spent on the Z

As a DD the STI wins hands down

All out fun in canyon it goes to the Z

said it twice ...

I paid $26k out the door for a brand new Z with 12 miles on the clock. I'd be an idiot to save $10k buying a used one full of headaches from the previous owner with no warranty.

And as for the VQ "found in everything"... Good! It's a proven design and a damn good engine. It also still competes well with current V8 models.

I'll buy new every time and deal with monthly payments rather than screw around with someone's old neglected beater with non-stop issues.

I'm buying a new Z... after years of owning used cars I didn't want to deal with other peoples problems anymore, especially in a car like this. Reason could be as simple as that for buying one new.

Wow those two are retarded. Neither of them know anything about either of these cars.
Did they get their info from cliffsnotes or something, so stupid.
CNET really needs to get it together or just stop reviewing cars if they can't get simple things like engine displacement correct.

Here's some valuable info:

Both test results are from Car and Driver

2016 WRX STI
Zero to 60 mph: 4.8 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.7 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.3 sec
Top speed: 159 mph



2015 (nothing changed for 2016) 370z Nismo
Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.3 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.1 sec
Top speed: 155 mph

These cars are pretty much the same performance wise.

The rest is all determined by how good of a driver you are and which driving style suits you.
Me, I like to tear it up carving corners and kicking the back end around while listening to that VQ exhaust blasting through straight pipes with the exhaust cracking with each up and downshift with RevMatch on.
I like the WRX's performace, but the 4 doors imply that passengers and or child seats are welcome in my car, and that's just a no go for me.

Thats really on you, i guess, for only looking at neglected beaters with non-stop issues.

Clean used versions are available, its up to the shopper to be patient and discerning.

Yeah it's really his fault that other people don't take care of their cars. People don't ever lie about condition when selling a used car. :rolleyes:

Thats what carfax and an inspection are for? Plus the warranty applies under $30k, so you can still go to your dealership

are you really trying to argue that buying new is better value than used? the only difference is effort, really

I mean, just look at the for sale section here and there are dozens of Z's available in various states of tune at various prices, and just a small snapshop of the market.

If you wanna be lazy and walk into the dealership and drive off, thats your money, its cool.

And back on topic, the STi is even more plentiful since the same drivetrain has been available since around 2004-ish The chassis hasn't changed that much. And you have a hatchback option too!

My point is the same, the used market for the Z and the STi offer a ton of options if you care to look there, you CAN come way ahead of paying for a new Z or Sti. Think about it, thats ******* $40k! Sorry if i'd like to get better value for my money, especially if a chunk of that $40K is going to a dealer.

Where did I say anything about value? Go back and re-read what I said. Some people simply are not hurting for money and want a brand new car, are you trying to argue they are wrong for wanting to buy new? Also Carfax and inspection are great tools for buying a used car but can't catch everything.
Not exactly sure why you are being combative and rude about this but the fact you imply people you don't even know are lazy for spending the money they earned shows how immature you are.

That's why I bought a CPO Z...already used the warranty to address CSC & get a new tranny after 5th gear began to grind.

I do agree that buying a used Z w/o a warranty is risky business.

Yeah dude, you're a clown.

If you trust Carfax and/or private sellers ALL of the time, then everything I read on the internet just HAS to be true ALL of the time I guess. LOL

And lazy? Really? Someone who's responsible and works hard for their money so they can support their family, buy nice things for their family and still have money left over to buy a nice new car and nice new expensive parts for it, I wouldn't exactly call lazy.

Like an artist, I like starting with a new blank canvas, and buying a brand new car is just that. I don't have to go and undo a bunch of crap I don't want on that used car, and possibly find out that someone somewhere along the line cut corners and did a hack job on everything, possibly even making the car unsafe. The heck with that noise.

You go ahead and buy your used cars and well... I won't. Because quite frankly, I don't give a rat's a$$ about depreciation and resale value.

And next time, think ahead before shooting off your mouth about people being lazy. I could just as easily say that you're just cheap and lazy and want to buy an already modded car for a song. Mind you, modded to someone else's taste. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Must be nice to have a Z and a STI.. lucky bastard :shakes head:

^ look who is talking lol

Your whole premise is that used, clean Z's don't exist. This is an eight year old car. They exist. For some reason you think every used car is a timebomb about to explode or something.

I saved about ten grand off the cost of an equivalent new model, and it has no "hack job mods" to undo. And now I can use that money on coilovers, suspension, and wheels. And my car is still under warranty.

But hey, in your own words, you don't care about depreciation or resale value, so hey, go ahead and justify your purchase. If you can sleep at night, cool!
awesome!
i'm clapping right now

and still laughing at you

Chopz position is pretty extreme, he apparently thinks every used car is a fast and furious castoff.

Its a ridiculous assumption, so i'm gonna treat it like one.

AND! this whole discussion is about STi's and Nismo Z's. My point is that NEITHER car is worth their MSRP, for the reason that clean used examples are available. I don't know how i could have spelled it out more clearly except ChopZ wants to take a pitchfork and light some torches to the used car market.

HE can do whatever he wants with his money that makes him feel good. My point is the same: it's hard to justify $40k for an Sti or Nismo Z.

LOL when has the Nismo ever broken 5 seconds, 0-60?

Three different tests, manual and auto, all Nismo, all reaching 105-106mph, all doing 0-60 in 5 seconds or less. the 1/4 time is out of the norm (13.3-13.6 avg), but overall, the numbers are fine.

0-60 in 5.0 13.5 @106.6mph
Lotus Exige S 260 Sport vs. Nissan Nismo 370Z

0-60 in 4.9 13.5 @105.4mph
2015 Nissan 370Z Nismo First Test - Motor Trend

0-60 in 4.9 13.6@106mph
2015 Nissan 370Z NISMO Automatic – Review – Car and Driver

Stopped watching a few seconds in!



Also the new sti is 2.5??? Why's the WRX 2.0? They always been equal besides the turbo and IC layout.

honestly in real world, i dont think i can ever get the 5sec mark on my 370Z. even with the RE11's i cant get the level of grip i need. and the clutch feel, throttle lag.. i just cant get the level of control i need.

the STI on the otherhand, great grip ofcourse, consistent clutch, fast throttle response (cobb stage1). easy to do fast launches.

I lurked on NASIOC a bit

The WRX engine is the new F20f, direct injection turbo. Bc it's new, folks speculated Subaru wasn't ready to push to 300 hp

So they used the decade old 2.5 in the sti

That makes no sense. Subaru has been pushing 2.0 engines to 300hp in Japan for YEARS. The JDM STi always had a 2.0L turbo.

The J spec STI has the new FA 2.0
The US spec STI has the old 2.5 FJ series. I have no idea why though.

It's all personal preference man. To some people, the extra money is worth knowing how the car was treated it's WHOLE life. I buy new, but I'm anal when it comes to my car. I personally don't trust people selling their cars or carfax. I would consider buying a used civic or some sort of economy car, but we're talking about sports/performance cars. It's definitely more likely that Z, WRX, EVO, etc. was beaten up by it's previous owner than a civic or corolla. I'd rather not get someone's sloppy seconds...

On topic: These two first stated that the 370z has a 3.5 liter and then thought the "370" stands for 370 hp? Come on :facepalm:

Wait is that right? Is the JDM sti using the new direct injection F series?

I don't think that's right. It should be the same EJ20 that all jdm stis have been using

"The new-generation WRX STI’s current 2.5-liter powerplant needs to be upgraded. Subaru launched the WRX S4 with a new “smarter” engine in Japan first, and then introduced it later to other world markets in the WRX and WRX STI in Japan. The Japan-market STI is powered by a 2.0-liter turbo boxer engine that produces 304hp and 311 lb ft of torque. The new Japan-only WRX STI S207 uses the same engine that’s tuned to get a maximum power output to 328 PS (323hp)."

Source: 4 reasons not to buy the 2016 WRX STI and wait for future STI models - Torque News

Could be wrong but there it is.

I'm perfectly fine with my STI. I'm perfectly fine with my Z too.

As long as it don't get eaten by a mouse. :ugh:

I think that Torque News article got it wrong (other articles on there have commentary that says the STi still uses a variant of the EJ series)

EDIT:
Lol. I shoulda done this to begin with

http://www.subaru.jp/wrx/sti/driving/boxer.html

Subaru Japan's website for the STi. Says EJ20

I stand corrected.. the Torque news article was not the only place I had heard that information, I can point you to at least 1 youtube review of an STI where the reviewer says the J spec STi has the new 2.0. Please forgive a mere mortal for actually believing something he read and heard from supposed "experts" lol apparently there is still a lot of mis-information out there regarding the STi vs the Regular WRX

That dated chassis pulls in the 1g family on the skidpad. It can stand to be lightened by a couple hundred lbs, but how is the chassis dated?

When I say dated, i''m not saying it's bad. Dude, I own a ******* Z after all.

But you can't deny the Z34 chassis has been around since '09 - getting into the 9th year of production. That's a pretty long time.

There's some obvious improvements I would like to see. They could shorten it a bit and get the weight down with even more aluminum - hopefully there's a way it can pull double duty with the G . . . i mean Q and still accomplish that.

The interior (at least on my Nismo) has some good surfaces, but still alot of cheap economy like plastic on the top of the inner door panels and dash.

The 2015+ Nismo has Recaros, but the Recaros are only the top half of the Sportser CS - wish they'd give us even more aggressive seats, at least as an option. They already have a relationship with Recaro using super hardcore seats in various GTR trims, and even the Juke has full seats IIRC

The CSC issue - still haven't fixed that damn issue and its nearly a decade

Lighter flywheel for better revability. I know they do it for driveability, but i can feel the VQ wanting to be unleashed in aggressive driving.

I suppose its more accurate the overall package should use more improvement.

People that are deeper into engine mods can probably speak more authoritatively on w what the VQ needs in its next evolution - or if Nissan has access to a better engine. The new Q uses a Mercedes Engine.

In an alternate timeline I wish there were more trim of the Z34. There's a billion variants of the GTR (black, track, premium, nismo, v-spec, blah blah)
Base version for entry
Sport with brakes and some cosmetic improvements/tech package for interior stuff
Nismo should have wider fenders, better brakes than the sport, or at least an option for a bigger package or brake ducting, exhaust/intake/tune upgrade, aluminum or carbon roof, aluminum or carbon hatch, option to delete interior stuff for weight savings, seam welded chassis. They'll never go so far as to stick a 500hp engine in there, but give us some more toys to play with in the options category.

At minimum they should make GTR seats and some fancy pants Brembos an option! Don't get me started on the ******** four colors available for the 2015+ Nismo. I would murder for the GTR Nismo's matte gunmetal color from the factory on the nismo z