Unpopular Post (no doubt but...)

ConchZ2 · 11-23-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slynky

Thanks, everyone, for the well-expressed concerns.

ONE of the items I did NOT mention in my initial post was that I realize more complaints will get posted than posts talking about how their car has no problems.

Like a restaurant. People will complain when the service or food is bad but never take the time to call the manager over to compliment excellent service or food...which I take the time to do EVERY time it happens.

So, I expect there to be a disproportionate amount of "problem" posts.

And... LMAO... haven't been to any American car forums...I imagine the comment about them is on target.

This is an old article but it’s an honest one……………

BABY GTR vs. 911 LITE - Exotic Car Forums : Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche, GTR, Bugatti, and More!

VCuomo · 11-24-2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slynky

So, I'm still pondering a 370Z and I've been semi-lurking/posting here for a few weeks now. And while the prices don't seem too far out of whack with what I can swing, as an old person, I try to put my money into some kind of quality.

So, is it just me remembering how things used to be or is it now expected cars come off the assembly line with too many defects and incomplete design/component testiing?

To wit, a brief review of the various threads I've read:

Hatch problem (Nissan won't fix and the "coin repair");

Oil heat problems;

Paint defects;

High pitch whine / ECU noise;

Engine oil leaks (and at least one engine replaced);

Shifting problems (1-->2) and shifting/clunking noises (differential?).

(and maybe other problems I haven't even seen yet)

Now, I have a Nissan PU ('98) and I had to take it to the dealer 3 times for a cab leak (water) and it's never been fixed and a repair to something in the steering wheel column down in the engine bay. And the right-side mirror can't be tightened enough to keep it from vibrating (I've gotten used to it).

And my RSX had a TSB on the strut housing or something (clunking when turning and going slowly over a speed bump or driveway) and a known shifting problem that you have to fight like hell with to get Acura to deal with.

SO...

Having said all this, a couple of questions:

Is this number of problems with a new car to be expected these days? What happened to all that quality I learned to expect from Japanese cars? For those with multiple problems, would you buy again? Should some of these problems be fixed in 2010 (or do you think Nissan will just continue to pass them along as long as sales are doing as well as they want)?

Yeah, I'm rambling and I don't expect every question to be answered but if you feel like commenting, I'd appreciate it. And if you feel like flaming me, go ahead and take a shot. I know I'm in the forum where people are likely to get upset at my comments.

This from a guy who owns a Fiat X19?

Sorry, I couldn't resist!

BTW, I've owned my 370Z for over 6 months now and have about 4K miles on it - zero problems.

ConchZ2 · 11-24-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VCuomo

This from a guy who owns a Fiat X19?

Sorry, I couldn't resist!

BTW, I've owned my 370Z for over 6 months now and have about 4K miles on it - zero problems.

No…………….a Honda 4 cylinder!

Mergnthwirker · 11-25-2009, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slynky

So, is it just me remembering how things used to be or is it now expected cars come off the assembly line with too many defects and incomplete design/component testiing?

To wit, a brief review of the various threads I've read:

Hatch problem (Nissan won't fix and the "coin repair");

Oil heat problems;

Paint defects;

High pitch whine / ECU noise;

Engine oil leaks (and at least one engine replaced);

Shifting problems (1-->2) and shifting/clunking noises (differential?).

(and maybe other problems I haven't even seen yet)

[snippage]

Having said all this, a couple of questions:

Is this number of problems with a new car to be expected these days? What happened to all that quality I learned to expect from Japanese cars? For those with multiple problems, would you buy again? Should some of these problems be fixed in 2010 (or do you think Nissan will just continue to pass them along as long as sales are doing as well as they want)?

If these issues were rampant, you might be right to worry. Frankly, however, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. These are great cars, and most people have few, if any problems.

My own experience: I've never had any of the problems you list.
* No hatch issues
* oil temps were higher before break-in, took it autocrossing and never broke 260; did have a bit of fuel starvation in right-hand turns until I filled the tank. Never had any oil temp issues all summer on hottest days, stop & go driving, nada
* no paint defects
* no ECU noise. Not even very noisy on trips, except on badly surfaced roads. But it is remarkably civilized for a sports car (vs. GT, like the Infiniti G37)
* no shifting problems. I originally disabled the rev-matching feature, but came to love it at the autocross when I was focused on my line & braking points, having the perfect rev-match really helped my times.
* no other problems

But it is not very exciting to post, "well, no problems again today!" Not surprising that you see only problems on the boards. But if you look at some of the third party services that track repair frequency & costs, you'll see that our cars rank among the very best. I think you are getting the wrong impression by reading the boards. Not a bad thing to do, when checking out a potential major purchase. But you need to think about frequency & magnitude of issues as well.

And if you look at the magnitude of the problems, where's the beef? I remember the first year of the Porsche Boxster, where the CEL light was referred to as the "Change Engine Light" Here, we are obsessing about barely visible paint chips at the edges of the bumper... High oil temps that almost no one observes after break-in, especially in everyday driving (unless you track your car). Huge difference in size/pain of issues! This is all minor crap, except for the terminally obsessed.

These cars perform exceptionally well, especially at this price point. They seem to be screwed together well. They maximize driver involvement and rewards. And they seem to be durable and reliable. What else is this quality that you are looking to buy?

Slynky · 11-25-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VCuomo

This from a guy who OWNED a Fiat X19?

Sorry, I couldn't resist!

BTW, I've owned my 370Z for over 6 months now and have about 4K miles on it - zero problems.

(FIXED)

You know, at the time, there weren't many mid-engine sports cars available in a good price range. The car had a lot of spunk, and even in those days, it average about 35 MPG--something car manufacturers brag about these days as if they have managed to break some sort of MPG barrier.

I owned it for about 4 years and I never had a single problem with it. Someone messed up the removable top trying to steal it in Germany but that's not Fiat's fault.

Slynky · 11-25-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConchZ2

No…………….a Honda 4 cylinder!

The engine in my RSX is a version of the same engine in this car (in the Atom 1, 2, and 3):

Welcome to Ariel Atom

(check under Featured).

Slynky · 11-25-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mergnthwirker

If these issues were rampant, you might be right to worry. Frankly, however, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. These are great cars, and most people have few, if any problems.

My own experience: I've never had any of the problems you list.
* No hatch issues
* oil temps were higher before break-in, took it autocrossing and never broke 260; did have a bit of fuel starvation in right-hand turns until I filled the tank. Never had any oil temp issues all summer on hottest days, stop & go driving, nada
* no paint defects
* no ECU noise. Not even very noisy on trips, except on badly surfaced roads. But it is remarkably civilized for a sports car (vs. GT, like the Infiniti G37)
* no shifting problems. I originally disabled the rev-matching feature, but came to love it at the autocross when I was focused on my line & braking points, having the perfect rev-match really helped my times.
* no other problems

But it is not very exciting to post, "well, no problems again today!" Not surprising that you see only problems on the boards. But if you look at some of the third party services that track repair frequency & costs, you'll see that our cars rank among the very best. I think you are getting the wrong impression by reading the boards. Not a bad thing to do, when checking out a potential major purchase. But you need to think about frequency & magnitude of issues as well.

And if you look at the magnitude of the problems, where's the beef? I remember the first year of the Porsche Boxster, where the CEL light was referred to as the "Change Engine Light" Here, we are obsessing about barely visible paint chips at the edges of the bumper... High oil temps that almost no one observes after break-in, especially in everyday driving (unless you track your car). Huge difference in size/pain of issues! This is all minor crap, except for the terminally obsessed.

These cars perform exceptionally well, especially at this price point. They seem to be screwed together well. They maximize driver involvement and rewards. And they seem to be durable and reliable. What else is this quality that you are looking to buy?

Well, I believe I stated/admitted that there would be a disproportionate amount of complaints because, as you say, who's going to post "my car has no defects".

Oh, and LMAO at the CEL comment.

(a somewhat hideously ugly car to begin with)

130TC · 11-26-2009, 05:23 AM

Youre right to bring up this discussion. Its like all things, you might get a "Friday afternoon job" (where everyone's in a rush to clock of early) but invariably I've had no issued with the 370z. You occasionally hear stories but then they come from the kind of people who have fit'n'finish issues with all their new cars purchases. Take the plunge, if anything goes mega wrong, it will be covered by the cars warranty and trust me, when you sit in the car and take it on a long drive you'll realise you made the right decision!

FASTEDDIE · 11-26-2009, 10:01 AM

I have been a motorhead since I was 15 (now 60). I have owned at least 30 cars; most of them new, and I can say my 370z is by far the best of the bunch.The Z has had no problems at all including squeeks, rattles, and other noises.The car I traded in for the Z was a loaded 2007 vette and the Z is by far a better all around performance car. The vette was quicker in a straight line but that is the only thing it had over the Z. The vette had all of the vette problems - dragging limited slip when cold, dead battery if you did not use a charger, rattles, lousy gps, and many more. I could not have purchased a better performance car, and $20K less than the vette. Please buy and enjoy. You will not be disappointed.

Slynky · 11-26-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTEDDIE

I have been a motorhead since I was 15 (now 60). I have owned at least 30 cars; most of them new, and I can say my 370z is by far the best of the bunch.The Z has had no problems at all including squeeks, rattles, and other noises.The car I traded in for the Z was a loaded 2007 vette and the Z is by far a better all around performance car. The vette was quicker in a straight line but that is the only thing it had over the Z. The vette had all of the vette problems - dragging limited slip when cold, dead battery if you did not use a charger, rattles, lousy gps, and many more. I could not have purchased a better performance car, and $20K less than the vette. Please buy and enjoy. You will not be disappointed.

Well, crap, Eddie

Here I was taking some small amount of enjoyment in being the oldest guy on the forum and you just pull the rug out from under me...

I never had much money (and still don't--the reason I worry about dropping that kind of coin) but always found some for a special kind of car. I raced a bit when I was 18-19 (and then the government saw fit to draft me during the Viet Nam thingy). But I've always had a "thing" for either speed or at least something wtih a nice design and some spunk.

Thanks for your reply.

(I'm reminded of a story...)

So, I'm stuck in interstate traffic going 10 MPH. Chilling with "Butterfly - DDR" music cranked up and I see two (Asian) girls pull up along side me on the left. They could hear the music even though I had the tinted windows up on my RSX. The passenger girl stuck her head and shoulders out of the window and was throwing the "thumbs up" sign at me (well, actually the car). I laughed and put the window down and waved. I thought they were going to die! She started laughing (at the codger in the hot car with the "DDR" music playing) and pulled back in the window to point at me to her driver friend and they both cracked up. I guess I just have to get used to feeling young but looking like I use a walker...

Bluemeanie · 11-26-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slynky

Well, crap, Eddie

Here I was taking some small amount of enjoyment in being the oldest guy on the forum and you just pull the rug out from under me...

I never had much money (and still don't--the reason I worry about dropping that kind of coin) but always found some for a special kind of car. I raced a bit when I was 18-19 (and then the government saw fit to draft me during the Viet Nam thingy). But I've always had a "thing" for either speed or at least something wtih a nice design and some spunk.

Thanks for your reply.

(I'm reminded of a story...)

So, I'm stuck in interstate traffic going 10 MPH. Chilling with "Butterfly - DDR" music cranked up and I see two (Asian) girls pull up along side me on the left. They could hear the music even though I had the tinted windows up on my RSX. The passenger girl stuck her head and shoulders out of the window and was throwing the "thumbs up" sign at me (well, actually the car). I laughed and put the window down and waved. I thought they were going to die! She started laughing (at the codger in the hot car with the "DDR" music playing) and pulled back in the window to point at me to her driver friend and they both cracked up. I guess I just have to get used to feeling young but looking like I use a walker...

In a godda-da-veda baby......

Z06stan

Slynky · 11-26-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluemeanie

In a godda-da-veda baby......

Z06stan

(Wife hates it, though...best drum solo FTW !)

j.arnaldo · 11-26-2009, 02:14 PM

Overall, 350s/370s are much better that average, according to CR; it's those "little nuisances"--as I call them--that give it a cloudy fame. Engine, cooling system, AT, electrical system, etc., are flawless, though. All in all, I'll keep my '04.5 Touring Coupe till death do us part!

11-26-2009, 03:55 PM

lol dude we know!

DooDooBrown · 11-26-2009, 04:36 PM

Something you have to remember is that there are several members on this thread who will never be happy with their cars because it isn't exactly perfect. I have had no real issues with my Z, just remember that some people complain for the sake of complaining....

11-26-2009, 05:23 AM	#53 (permalink)
130TC Base Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: LDN Posts: 32 Drives: 350z Rep Power: 16	Youre right to bring up this discussion. Its like all things, you might get a "Friday afternoon job" (where everyone's in a rush to clock of early) but invariably I've had no issued with the 370z. You occasionally hear stories but then they come from the kind of people who have fit'n'finish issues with all their new cars purchases. Take the plunge, if anything goes mega wrong, it will be covered by the cars warranty and trust me, when you sit in the car and take it on a long drive you'll realise you made the right decision! Last edited by 130TC; 11-30-2009 at 05:19 AM.

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11-26-2009, 10:01 AM	#54 (permalink)
FASTEDDIE Base Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: new jersey Posts: 2 Drives: 09 370z silver 7at Rep Power: 16	I have been a motorhead since I was 15 (now 60). I have owned at least 30 cars; most of them new, and I can say my 370z is by far the best of the bunch.The Z has had no problems at all including squeeks, rattles, and other noises.The car I traded in for the Z was a loaded 2007 vette and the Z is by far a better all around performance car. The vette was quicker in a straight line but that is the only thing it had over the Z. The vette had all of the vette problems - dragging limited slip when cold, dead battery if you did not use a charger, rattles, lousy gps, and many more. I could not have purchased a better performance car, and $20K less than the vette. Please buy and enjoy. You will not be disappointed.

11-26-2009, 02:14 PM	#58 (permalink)
j.arnaldo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 937 Drives: Nissan 350Z, 2004 Rep Power: 0	Overall, 350s/370s are much better that average, according to CR; it's those "little nuisances"--as I call them--that give it a cloudy fame. Engine, cooling system, AT, electrical system, etc., are flawless, though. All in all, I'll keep my '04.5 Touring Coupe till death do us part!

11-26-2009, 03:55 PM	#59 (permalink)
blue660r01 Guest Posts: n/a	lol dude we know!

11-26-2009, 04:36 PM	#60 (permalink)
DooDooBrown Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Ranson, WV Posts: 178 Drives: 09 370 Touring w/spt Rep Power: 16	Something you have to remember is that there are several members on this thread who will never be happy with their cars because it isn't exactly perfect. I have had no real issues with my Z, just remember that some people complain for the sake of complaining....