One of our forum members getting screwed over by a dealership

[cv129]

I don't understand the need for the written/signed statements. Is that just another hurdle the dealership owner is throwing at you to save face?

It's very apparent the mechanic drove it just for fun, because...

How would the mechanic be able to tell the existence, location, and severity of the brake fluid leak if he didn't clean up the fluid that was already spilled all over the engine bay? Gotta wipe off the mess to see the wound, that's just common sense.

[SouthArk370Z]

This is extremely minor compared to the fire itself, but I've been wondering why the dealership would use a dry powder extinguisher, instead of CO2, on a customer's vehicle for a Class B fire. Sure, a dry chem works, but look at the mess. A CO2 would work just as well and leave little to no residue.

BTW, the powder in most dry chem extinguishers is sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), potassium bicarbonate (very similar to baking soda), or monoammonium phosphate, all of which become corrosive when they become damp/wet. If you haven't done so already, do a through cleanup.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

This is extremely minor compared to the fire itself, but I've been wondering why the dealership would use a dry powder extinguisher, instead of CO2, on a customer's vehicle for a Class B fire. Sure, a dry chem works, but look at the mess. A CO2 would work just as well and leave little to no residue.

BTW, the powder in most dry chem extinguishers is sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), potassium bicarbonate (very similar to baking soda), or monoammonium phosphate, all of which become corrosive when they become damp/wet. If you haven't done so already, do a through cleanup.

The dealership might have only one type of fire extinguisher, One for all classes. Class A, B and C. It's cheaper that way, and they are cover.

[SouthArk370Z]

Originally Posted by Rusty

The dealership might have only one type of fire extinguisher, One for all classes. Class A, B and C. It's cheaper that way, and they are cover.

Thanks. Crappy way to treat a customer's car, but I guess it makes business sense if you are insured.

[Isamu]

Originally Posted by cv129

I don't understand the need for the written/signed statements. Is that just another hurdle the dealership owner is throwing at you to save face?

It's very apparent the mechanic drove it just for fun, because...

How would the mechanic be able to tell the existence, location, and severity of the brake fluid leak if he didn't clean up the fluid that was already spilled all over the engine bay? Gotta wipe off the mess to see the wound, that's just common sense.

it's more of a, "If i have to take this to court, I have written backup stating the dealership was wrong."
When I go speak with the owner, i'd like to have all my ducks in a row. and if need be, and I have to take them to court. I want all the evidence to slam dunk this thing.

[birdman71]

Originally Posted by Isamu

it's more of a, "If i have to take this to court, I have written backup stating the dealership was wrong."
When I go speak with the owner, i'd like to have all my ducks in a row. and if need be, and I have to take them to court. I want all the evidence to slam dunk this thing.

And not some weakass slam dunk either.... He wants to SHATTER THEIR BACKBOARD beyond replacement when he dunks on them

[rbpwrd240]

Originally Posted by Isamu

First of all I want to say thank you. I appreciate the support. I really do. It gives me the same feeling I get when I think about how the military is a brotherhood, and you stick together, protect one another.

I read the thread over there. It made me kind of sad that people attacked me for taking it to the dealership. I work a lot of hours. Minot is notorious for working us 12+ for weeks on end. I would have loved to had done this myself, I just simply didn't have the time to get to it. With that said, hindsight is 20/20.
I am doing my best to collect the facts, and put the evidence in a well formatted document. I'm not sure if I should send a rebuttel to their insurance. It has crossed my mind tho.

I am honestly still in disbelief of how the dealerships staff treated me, and the fact that the PR guy has yet to call me back. It's crazy how little they value their customer base. I did talk to Steve Lehto and he said I should continue what I am doing, and social media is a wonderful tool. As has been displayed by all the super awesome guys here, and over at Zilvia.

Again, thank you for your support. You and the rest of the guys here, and at Zilvia rock!

I apologize if this isn't as coherent as it should be, it's been a long couple of weeks.

Thank you for the kind words. I'm glad I could help out. I'm out of town but once I get back ill get back into the facts of this deal. I hope you a quick and just solution.


PS Dont hate on 240's... Okay maybe S13's J/K But seriously every car group has idiots just happens the 240 game has a large number of them due to the cheap entry price and high hp potential as well as a well balanced package from the start.

Zilvia is a fickle Bi**h and posting anything over there is a risk. LOL Stupid Gen poppers I hope they arent giving positive reviews. I noticed some idiot with a civic did last week but he seemed too stupid to be zilvian. Thats saying summin.

[Isamu]

Originally Posted by rbpwrd240

Thank you for the kind words. I'm glad I could help out. I'm out of town but once I get back ill get back into the facts of this deal. I hope you a quick and just solution.


PS Dont hate on 240's... Okay maybe S13's J/K But seriously every car group has idiots just happens the 240 game has a large number of them due to the cheap entry price and high hp potential as well as a well balanced package from the start.

Zilvia is a fickle Bi**h and posting anything over there is a risk. LOL Stupid Gen poppers I hope they arent giving positive reviews. I noticed some idiot with a civic did last week but he seemed too stupid to be zilvian. Thats saying summin.

awesome! I hope your out of town trip was good.
I know plenty of guys with 240s/silvias, and they are mostly good people

[Darwins Child]

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

This is extremely minor compared to the fire itself, but I've been wondering why the dealership would use a dry powder extinguisher, instead of CO2, on a customer's vehicle for a Class B fire. Sure, a dry chem works, but look at the mess. A CO2 would work just as well and leave little to no residue.

BTW, the powder in most dry chem extinguishers is sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), potassium bicarbonate (very similar to baking soda), or monoammonium phosphate, all of which become corrosive when they become damp/wet. If you haven't done so already, do a through cleanup.

Exactly right.

CO2 should be standard fare in automotive shops for precisely the reasons you state (and I stated back in post 32 of this thread). We have two of them in our home, as well as a water hose at the ready. I acquired those CO2 extinguishers because I saw what a dry chemical extinguisher did to a kitchen and adjacent rooms after the homeowner used one on an oven fire. It wasn't pretty and it was expensive to clean up.

One of the main advantages of CO2 in an automotive application is that the expanding CO2 will not only deprive the fire of oxygen and snuff it out instantly, but it will also very rapidly cool the hot metal in the area of the fire, making it very unlikely that whatever it is that's burning will re-ignite when the CO2 stops.
Frostbite injury of the foot from portable fire extinguisher [eScholarship]

If this particular fire started while the vehicle was on a lift and there was a CO2 extinguisher closeby, it is more than possible that the fire could have been extinguished so fast that the damage to the vehicle caused by the fire would have been inconsequential and inexpensive to repair. And with that economically different result, the dealership may very well have promptly proceeded with the repair, swallowed the cost of the parts damaged by fire, and finally charged the owner only for the repair -- which is what the owner fully expected when he brought in the vehicle.

In a legal proceeding I would mention that, even though a CO2 extinguisher may not be required by law or the dealership's insurance company, the dealership was negligent for not having one at the ready for a vehicle that was known to have a flammable-fluid leak that was quite possibly located somewhere in the engine compartment. The fact that, even knowing this, the dealership then allowed the engine and attached parts to heat up
Ignition > Autoigntion > Underhood Surface Temperatures
to a temperature well above the flash point of that liquid
http://www.kmcoinc.com/DOT4%20Brake%...S%20(9-09).pdf
is blatant negligence and even a bone-ignorant adjudicator will almost certainly agree.

[Ronin06]

Originally Posted by VABAM

The last I heard from Isamu he is still having issues finding a lawyer. It's slim pickings in Minot, ND and none of the lawyers he has talked to are willing to assist him. Might have to do with the fact that all the major car dealers in Minot including the Nissan dealer in question are owned by the same family IIRC.

If anybody can help or knows some one that can help with the legal side of this, your assistance would be appreciated.

The lawyers don't want to touch it because it's a small town and he is considered a "transient". So they score one for our guy and lose any business for the next decade.

The last time my Z was at the stealership was when I purchased it. Have no plans on ever taking it in, unless it's warranty work and even then I'll take it to one out of town as the local dealer mechs are idiots.

[Ronin06]

Originally Posted by Isamu

consider emailing Steve Lehto. he writes for Jalopnik.. and I am sure he would do a piece if some people asked him too

You might also want to try contacting Nissan corporate. They will have a US branch responsible for their operations here. The people to locate are those responsible for dealerships.

The inquiry coming from corporate that controls who gets dealership rights may have some impact.

[Isamu]

Originally Posted by Ronin06

You might also want to try contacting Nissan corporate. They will have a US branch responsible for their operations here. The people to locate are those responsible for dealerships.

The inquiry coming from corporate that controls who gets dealership rights may have some impact.

Nissan wasn't any help. They told me that they have no control over the dealership

[Isamu]

Originally Posted by Darwins Child

Exactly right.

CO2 should be standard fare in automotive shops for precisely the reasons you state (and I stated back in post 32 of this thread). We have two of them in our home, as well as a water hose at the ready. I acquired those CO2 extinguishers because I saw what a dry chemical extinguisher did to a kitchen and adjacent rooms after the homeowner used one on an oven fire. It wasn't pretty and it was expensive to clean up.

One of the main advantages of CO2 in an automotive application is that the expanding CO2 will not only deprive the fire of oxygen and snuff it out instantly, but it will also very rapidly cool the hot metal in the area of the fire, making it very unlikely that whatever it is that's burning will re-ignite when the CO2 stops.
Frostbite injury of the foot from portable fire extinguisher [eScholarship]

If this particular fire started while the vehicle was on a lift and there was a CO2 extinguisher closeby, it is more than possible that the fire could have been extinguished so fast that the damage to the vehicle caused by the fire would have been inconsequential and inexpensive to repair. And with that economically different result, the dealership may very well have promptly proceeded with the repair, swallowed the cost of the parts damaged by fire, and finally charged the owner only for the repair -- which is what the owner fully expected when he brought in the vehicle.

In a legal proceeding I would mention that, even though a CO2 extinguisher may not be required by law or the dealership's insurance company, the dealership was negligent for not having one at the ready for a vehicle that was known to have a flammable-fluid leak that was quite possibly located somewhere in the engine compartment. The fact that, even knowing this, the dealership then allowed the engine and attached parts to heat up
Ignition > Autoigntion > Underhood Surface Temperatures
to a temperature well above the flash point of that liquid
http://www.kmcoinc.com/DOT4%20Brake%...S%20(9-09).pdf
is blatant negligence and even a bone-ignorant adjudicator will almost certainly agree.

great post! thank you, and the information is great! this could potentially help me if i have to goto court!

[Darwins Child]

Originally Posted by Isamu

great post! thank you, and the information is great! this could potentially help me if i have to goto court!

It's my pleasure.

I assume you did not bring the vehicle into the dealership and say only "something's wrong with my car, so fix it". You described the problem you were having. You can prove this, as well as the dealership's understanding of the problem, by producing any kind of document that the dealership gave to you at the time you brought it in that states what the potential problem was -- for example, "brake pedal low" or "losing braking", etc. This will be solid evidence of a possible leak in the brake system and that the dealership had at least some idea of where to start looking in order to repair whatever was wrong and, quite possibly, that a test drive should / may have been unnecessary to repair what was wrong.

Ultimately, everybody in the world knows that you and other vehicle owners bring their vehicles to automotive repair shops to be repaired, not to be set on fire. Luckily, most people --even judges and lawyers-- are themselves vehicle owners and have probably gotten shafted at dealerships' repair shops themselves. They are going to be very sympathetic as they listen to another victim's plight. (Payback time!)

Therefore, I think you would prevail in a simple small claims court action in which you represent yourself. In North Dakota it seems to be a very simple procedure.
Legal Services of North Dakota » Complete Topic List

If you don't get satisfaction from whatever your insurance company does, if I were you, small claims court is the route I'd take to Justice. You'll get plenty of advice here for specifically what to say and produce at the proceeding.

Good luck.

[Isamu]

Originally Posted by Darwins Child

It's my pleasure.

( Click to show/hide )

I assume you did not bring the vehicle into the dealership and say only "something's wrong with my car, so fix it". You described the problem you were having. You can prove this, as well as the dealership's understanding of the problem, by producing any kind of document that the dealership gave to you at the time you brought it in that states what the potential problem was -- for example, "brake pedal low" or "losing braking", etc. This will be solid evidence of a possible leak in the brake system and that the dealership had at least some idea of where to start looking in order to repair whatever was wrong and, quite possibly, that a test drive should / may have been unnecessary to repair what was wrong.

Ultimately, everybody in the world knows that you and other vehicle owners bring their vehicles to automotive repair shops to be repaired, not to be set on fire. Luckily, most people --even judges and lawyers-- are themselves vehicle owners and have probably gotten shafted at dealerships' repair shops themselves. They are going to be very sympathetic as they listen to another victim's plight. (Payback time!)

Therefore, I think you would prevail in a simple small claims court action in which you represent yourself. In North Dakota it seems to be a very simple procedure.
Legal Services of North Dakota » Complete Topic List

If you don't get satisfaction from whatever your insurance company does, if I were you, small claims court is the route I'd take to Justice. You'll get plenty of advice here for specifically what to say and produce at the proceeding.

Good luck.

I specifically told them I had a brake leak, and the service manager even said to me, "you're lucky it didn't catch fire, brake fluid is flammable."