One of our forum members getting screwed over by a dealership

[ChaseZ]

Originally Posted by Isamu

Nissan wasn't any help. They told me that they have no control over the dealership

They lied.

I assume the Service Dept is the responsible party at the other end. Nissan Corp owns 50% of it.

If this goes to court or even in that direction make sure they are named as defendants as well, not just the dealer.

Hell, name the Service Advisor and the Tech. Everyone you talked to or had any sort of care and/or control over the car from the moment you rolled in. Shotgun approach. Let the Ryan's explain to the judge why they shouldn't be named. Remember they have a whole lot more exposure here than you do. You can make it real expensive in a hurry for them to try and defend this thing. Sure, they can afford it but the cost will surpass that of the damages to the car in a hurry.

[Darwins Child]

Originally Posted by Isamu

I specifically told them I had a brake leak, and the service manager even said to me, "you're lucky it didn't catch fire, brake fluid is flammable."

You didn't happen to record that conversation, did you? If you did, IMO, you've got a slam dunk for small claims court. If you did not, you'll soon find out that the service manager has early-onset Alzheimer's disease and can't remember a thing about your initial visit. ("I can't recall" seems to be the gold standard when it comes to lying, especially under oath. Most management-level employees at dealerships are virtuoso liars -- maybe not as good as presidential candidates, but close.)

Did you receive a service document from the dealership that states anything specific about the reason the vehicle was brought in for service? If you did, what does it state, exactly?

BTW, next time you go into the dealership's service area (if you ever are allowed to again), try to see if they've got a security camera either at the service counter or, better still, inside the service area where your vehicle was hoisted. Their insurance company may require such devices in order to insure the place. If either location has a security camera, if you decide to go the small-claims route, I believe that before the hearing you can get the video record via subpoena:
What Is a Subpoena? - FindLaw
but you may have to get one through an attorney or court, which should be relatively easy and inexpensive. Considering the circumstances, I cannot see on what grounds an unbiased third-party could refuse your request.

[DeliriousClam]

^ Makes a good point. start recording any conversation you have with anyone involved with this ****. You're in a one-party consent state so anything they say and you have recorded you can use in court

[TwinTurboZ]

As a general rule, when the car is in possession of the dealer, they are liable for damage to it at least with a standard of reasonable care (ie. they cannot be negligent in the handling and protection of the property). They may attempt to disclaim the liability in the agreement (check the copy of the service agreement that you signed for such language, probably the fine print).

Ideas:
(1) Record all conversations and video of your interactions with the dealer, if it is legal (check your state laws).

(2) BBB is a waste of your time, don't bother, they are a private company that profits from charging companies to clear their name.

(3) Option 1 - Call your insurance company and make a claim for the fire damage, but tell the insurance company the dealer caused the damage. This is similar to the dealer causing an accident against your car. The insurance company has lawyers that could go after the dealership for the cost and make them pay. The dealer's insurance company may pay up shortly after. If the insurance company feels there is no liability, they might increase your rates, but they should cover the fire if your policy includes it. Caution: they may rate your risk higher in either case and increase rates, but the advantage is you can avoid messing around with legal claims.

(4) Option 2 - File your own claim in small claims court if the value is under the amount in controversy requirement. Document everything. Make sure you have an idea of the basis for your claim - you may need to find out what under what law the dealer is liable for goods in his possession, although the small claims court tends to be forgiving. Hint: UCC Article 1, bailment may be relevant, also read up on tort negligence. Bailees are expected to insure or protect goods under repair. Having documentation such as they acted improperly our with negligence will help.

(5) Option 3 - Get an attorney to draft the complaint and serve the dealership with a formal claim. If the dealer doesn't budge, then file in the local court and get ready for a fight. Note, that if you do not live in the state, this could be interstate commerce and you may be able to file in federal district court.

This is not legal advice, merely information and is not a comprehensive list of options. You should seek counsel from an attorney to protect your rights.

Good luck.

[Isamu]

I have a recording of the conversation when I picked up the "waiver"

[Darwins Child]

Further to what TwinTurboZ has to say -- North Dakota legal assistance:

Legal Services of North Dakota » How to Contact Us for Legal Help

And the above's Minot branch address:

"Minot Law Office/Central Intake Unit
20 - 1st St SW Suite 201
Minot, North Dakota 58701

Hours of operation are:

Under age 60 call 1-800-634-5263
Monday, Tuesday, Thursday between 9 a.m. - 3 p.m. CST."

If I were you I'd call that 1-800 number and see what they have to say about your eligibility for legal assistance and maybe even what they have to advise about you and your vehicle's situation.

Good luck.

[Isamu]

Brakes, who needs brakes.

[37zeroZ]

This dealership have the same type of folks protecting them from wrong doing as does Hillary. Good luck!!

[Isamu]

just waiting on a few letters from some master techs, and hopefully a Nissan tech

[Darwins Child]

Originally Posted by Isamu

Brakes, who needs brakes.

I read your blog and I think those involved are outright lying about the need to test drive the vehicle in order to find the brake line leak. After all, how do you tell where a brake line leak is located if you're inside the vehicle as it is moving down the road? Such a repair procedure is ludicrous to downright absurd. Therefore, the one and only plausible explanation is that they simply wanted to take your vehicle for a joyride.

Knowing that there was a leak, quite possibly in the engine compartment, first, with the fully-cooled engine NOT running, the grease monkeys should have placed a large piece of brown paper or cardboard under the vehicle. Then they should have filled the master reservoir and then had somebody in the vehicle press hard on the brake pedal for a couple of minutes. Then, in order to more isolate the location of the leak along the vehicle, they should have checked the paper / cardboard for drips. Etc.

If, and only if, the above did not show the leak, should a stone cold engine have been briefly started so that the power brake would function; and this only done with a CO2 extinguisher literally at hand in order to use it to instantly extinguish any small fire that might erupt from a tiny leak. Etc.

Hopefully a competent auto tech who makes his living repairing vehicles will state the above for any legal proceeding. Luckily, the safety reasons why something similar to this should be performed will make perfect sense even to the bone ignorant; and why what the dealership did from stem to stern not only did not make any logical sense repair-wise, but also resulted in a fire whose damage was almost certainly exacerbated by the use of dry chemical fire extinguisher.

Is the dealership actually going to try to support an argument that no one could have operated or fixed the vehicle without starting a fire that would have caused so much damage regardless of what repair procedure had be used, or what safety precautions had been put in place, prior to the fire?

Such an argument could be instantly and positively refuted by the fact that you had driven the vehicle, not had it towed, to the dealership without a fire erupting either during that trip or shortly after the vehicle was stopped at the dealership with its engine at its hottest. How could it be that you could drive the vehicle without having a fire, but after the dealership drove it there was a fire?

Most likely the reason is that whoever took the vehicle for the test drive drove the vehicle much harder than you did and heated up exhaust / turbo system components to a much higher temperature. This should also be pointed out in any legal proceeding. This logic will also support your contention that the vehicle was taken for a technically unnecessary and unsafe joyride which ultimately resulted in the fire.

[cv129]

Originally Posted by Darwins Child

I think those involved are outright lying about the need to test drive the vehicle in order to find the brake line leak. After all, how do you tell where a brake line leak is located if you're inside the vehicle as it is moving down the road?

Originally Posted by Darwins Child

Knowing that there was a leak, quite possibly in the engine compartment, first, with the fully-cooled engine NOT running, the grease monkeys should have....

Originally Posted by Darwins Child

If, and only if, the above did not show the leak, should a stone cold engine have been briefly started...

Originally Posted by Darwins Child

Most likely the reason is that whoever took the vehicle for the test drive drove the vehicle much harder than you did

I narrated this story to a mechanic friend (owns a giant turbo RB26 240sx), and that's the exact conclusion he gave me. For a 2 miles drive, the guys must've driven it hard

[VABAM]

I've talked to 2 master mechanics and the first words out of both of their mouths was some one took Tim's Z out for a joy ride.

[DeliriousClam]

Originally Posted by Isamu

just waiting on a few letters from some master techs, and hopefully a Nissan tech

I might be able to get a letter from a Nissan tech

[Isamu]

Originally Posted by cv129

I narrated this story to a mechanic friend (owns a giant turbo RB26 240sx), and that's the exact conclusion he gave me. For a 2 miles drive, the guys must've driven it hard

ask him if he would mind writing up a letter stating that, If you don't mind

[Isamu]

found a lawyer in MN that serves ND as well.. just waiting on a call back