6MT vs 7AT and the Track/Auto X

shabarivas · 10-22-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesomez

I have driven over 150+ different cars and I've had my license for 13 years. So yes that means I have driven my first manual with a booster seat. Yes I know what a sequential is, that's why I didn't say anything about sequential but about your belittling of modern auto transmissions.

I wouldn't touch the S word if I were you. I doubt you have anything to do with science, I would guess there is a good chance you believe in easter bunny.

Now THAT is opinion! and I would because you are not me... If you want to bring your car to a track I would be happy to show you how to drive. But making assumptions about my beliefs simply just shows me that you have nothing else to say about the point being discussed - you just want to show someone up on the internets... I understand that you have this dire need to show your dominance over all when it comes to your Auto Z- but I bet it wouldnt just end there...

I leave more science behind in tightly coil'd lumps each morning than you will ever know about in that quick to judge brain of yours... Be happy with your auto trans - but lets keep this discussion to point... which of course is regarding to the easter bunny - which I do happen to believe in (he actually is my uncle... and down here in rabbit land I am just about the only one who owns a Z)...

If you want to post some meaningful information regarding the original debate - please do... lets leave un-erudite guess about me and you out of it shall we?

Lug · 10-22-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shabarivas

^ no that does not really work unless the same driver is driving both cars... which is why I say.. lets throw em on a dyno... and see how much delay there is before the TQ picks up for the A7 vs the M6

Throwing them on a dyno is no different that running them at the strip. It doesn't address the issue of downshifting speeds in the Auto. The Auto has been the fastest at the strip so far but more runs are needed. The MT should make up ground tracking the car.

shabarivas · 10-22-2009, 04:32 PM

You do not understand what I am saying... I am saying... If we want to EXPERIMENTALLY determine which one shifts faster all we have to do is the following:

Same Dyno same day...

1. Graph a MT 370z shifting from 1->2 etc etc... 4->5 when looking at the power / tq graphs - we can see a power over time plot which will show us how long the power drops for between shifts... this tells us how fast our "competent" MT driver shifts

2. Do the same w/ an Auto Z and compare the times taken

3. Profit?

EDIT: this is to see who can upshift quicker - I dont want to get started on the downshifting as obviously the 6mt has an advantage anytime you want to skip a gear

earwicker7 · 10-22-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

Again, Car & Driver reported that the 7AT does not drop 2 or more gears when requested. I've never driven the 7AT, so I have no fkin idea............but C&D's take makes me think it would suck in AutoX.

Quote: "The one negative we noted was a reluctance to crack off seamless multigear jumps. Call for a two-gear drop, and the engine briefly hangs up on the first before dropping into the second, sapping some of the joy and confidence from quick two-lane passes."

Hmm... I'll have to pay more attention, but that's not really the feeling that I get; it seems pretty seemless to me.

As someone who has driven both manuals and automatics, I think there is a little bit of "Back in my day we walked five miles to school!" style thinking when it comes to glorifying manual transmissions

. Does anyone really think manuals will even be an available option twenty years from now? Five years ago I would have been in total agreement with most of you, but it seems like we are at the point where automatics are catching up to and possibly surpassing manuals.

kannibul · 10-22-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shabarivas

Come on ... the Zs A7 is good - have you ever driven a real modern day sequential? There is a HUGE difference - stop fooling your self about it... but if it helps you feel better then w/e

When I say sequential in regards to the 7AT, I mean you go from 1/2/3/4/5/6/7 - you don't skip gears, except when moving the auto-stick over, it'll downshift form 7 to 5. If you hit the + paddle with it in D, it'll just stay in 7(M), then you can move it to 6th, 5th, etc in order.

When you say modern sequential, I think you're talking about a dual-clutch, servo-operated manual. Huge difference, and not something I am trying to compare, other than they both operate in sequence.

shabarivas · 10-22-2009, 04:45 PM

Yep - thats what I was referring to - Guess that explains the confusion. There is no doubt that a real "sequential" is better than both our Autos and Manuals... but I misunderstood when you said sequential - I didnt realize you meant just shifting through the gears.

JoeD · 10-22-2009, 04:47 PM

Again, I will reiterate...I fail to see how this has materialized into any sort of argument among enthusiasts, especially in the context of road-racing. This is indeed a first.

You can argue for days on the optional transmissions vs. standard manuals on other cars, from the SMG vs. 6-speed on the M5/M6, F1 vs. standard in Ferraris, to the DSG vs. 6-speed in a GTI, etc...the reason those comparisons are valid is because all the non-standard options aren't traditional automatics. Why are people so caught up on the 7AT? There is nothing special to it. So it blips on downshifts and shifts relatively quick...nothing groundbreaking for an automatic produced sometime within the last 10 years.

It’s funny how automakers can put paddles or buttons on the steering-wheel to shift an auto and fool people into thinking it’s any different than when you were manually shifting your mom’s '94 Camry when you were 16. Was there a similar auto vs. manual discussion for the 350Z?

kannibul · 10-22-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeD

Again, I will reiterate...I fail to see how this has materialized into any sort of argument among enthusiasts, especially in the context of road-racing. This is indeed a first.

You can argue for days on the optional transmissions vs. standard manuals on other cars, from the SMG vs. 6-speed on the M5/M6, F1 vs. standard in Ferraris, to the DSG vs. 6-speed in a GTI, etc...the reason those comparisons are valid is because all the non-standard options aren't traditional automatics. Why are people so caught up on the 7AT? There is nothing special to it. So it blips on downshifts and shifts relatively quick...nothing groundbreaking for an automatic produced sometime within the last 10 years.

It’s funny how automakers can put paddles or buttons on the steering-wheel to shift an auto and fool people into thinking it’s any different than when you were manually shifting your mom’s '94 Camry when you were 16. Was there a similar auto vs. manual discussion for the 350Z?

Obviously, you've not driven the 370z with a 7AT, otherwise, you wouldn't make that kind of statement.

I explained it earlier, now, go out to a dealership, and drive one, and see for yourself.

av370 · 10-22-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeD

Again, I will reiterate...I fail to see how this has materialized into any sort of argument among enthusiasts, especially in the context of road-racing. This is indeed a first.

You can argue for days on the optional transmissions vs. standard manuals on other cars, from the SMG vs. 6-speed on the M5/M6, F1 vs. standard in Ferraris, to the DSG vs. 6-speed in a GTI, etc...the reason those comparisons are valid is because all the non-standard options aren't traditional automatics. Why are people so caught up on the 7AT? There is nothing special to it. So it blips on downshifts and shifts relatively quick...nothing groundbreaking for an automatic produced sometime within the last 10 years.

It’s funny how automakers can put paddles or buttons on the steering-wheel to shift an auto and fool people into thinking it’s any different than when you were manually shifting your mom’s '94 Camry when you were 16. Was there a similar auto vs. manual discussion for the 350Z?

Except the auto camary aint .4 sec.faster

Red370 · 10-22-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by av370

Except the auto camary aint .4 sec.faster

when you say .4 seconds faster, what are you referring to?

shabarivas · 10-22-2009, 06:22 PM

I assume he is talking about how much faster the AT is compared to the MT

Red370 · 10-22-2009, 06:29 PM

uhh, can someone please show me where the 7AT is .4 seconds faster in anything? stock.

shabarivas · 10-22-2009, 06:47 PM

LOL you are about to get assaulted by magazine numbers red... watchout!!

shumby · 10-22-2009, 06:53 PM

wow my farts stink

dad · 10-22-2009, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red370

uhh, can someone please show me where the 7AT is .4 seconds faster in anything? stock.

According to Car and Driver- M/T is 13.6sec @ 105mph. A/T is 13.1 @ 108-Standing quarter mile! Nissan 370 Z.

10-22-2009, 06:29 PM	#72 (permalink)
Red370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kaiserslautern, Germany Posts: 4,391 Drives: your mom to church Rep Power: 296	uhh, can someone please show me where the 7AT is .4 seconds faster in anything? stock. __________________ 2011 Mustang 5.0 \| 3.55's \| Lethal Performance off road H-Pipe \| Magnaflow Muffler Delete \| JLT CAI/Bama tuned 417whp/ 404 ft/lbs

10-22-2009, 06:53 PM	#74 (permalink)
shumby Captin Canuck Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: with your mom Age: 44 Posts: 6,288 Drives: your sister Rep Power: 236	wow my farts stink __________________ Originally Posted by SAM@GTM Engine detonation is not normal and it should never never happen, and whoever told that need to do something else for living . Sam

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10-22-2009, 04:32 PM	#63 (permalink)
shabarivas A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,188 Drives: 370z MB 6mt Rep Power: 914	You do not understand what I am saying... I am saying... If we want to EXPERIMENTALLY determine which one shifts faster all we have to do is the following: Same Dyno same day... 1. Graph a MT 370z shifting from 1->2 etc etc... 4->5 when looking at the power / tq graphs - we can see a power over time plot which will show us how long the power drops for between shifts... this tells us how fast our "competent" MT driver shifts 2. Do the same w/ an Auto Z and compare the times taken 3. Profit? EDIT: this is to see who can upshift quicker - I dont want to get started on the downshifting as obviously the 6mt has an advantage anytime you want to skip a gear

10-22-2009, 04:45 PM	#66 (permalink)
shabarivas A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,188 Drives: 370z MB 6mt Rep Power: 914	Yep - thats what I was referring to - Guess that explains the confusion. There is no doubt that a real "sequential" is better than both our Autos and Manuals... but I misunderstood when you said sequential - I didnt realize you meant just shifting through the gears.

10-22-2009, 04:47 PM	#67 (permalink)
JoeD Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: CA Posts: 495 Drives: Z Rep Power: 0	Again, I will reiterate...I fail to see how this has materialized into any sort of argument among enthusiasts, especially in the context of road-racing. This is indeed a first. You can argue for days on the optional transmissions vs. standard manuals on other cars, from the SMG vs. 6-speed on the M5/M6, F1 vs. standard in Ferraris, to the DSG vs. 6-speed in a GTI, etc...the reason those comparisons are valid is because all the non-standard options aren't traditional automatics. Why are people so caught up on the 7AT? There is nothing special to it. So it blips on downshifts and shifts relatively quick...nothing groundbreaking for an automatic produced sometime within the last 10 years. It’s funny how automakers can put paddles or buttons on the steering-wheel to shift an auto and fool people into thinking it’s any different than when you were manually shifting your mom’s '94 Camry when you were 16. Was there a similar auto vs. manual discussion for the 350Z?

10-22-2009, 06:22 PM	#71 (permalink)
shabarivas A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,188 Drives: 370z MB 6mt Rep Power: 914	I assume he is talking about how much faster the AT is compared to the MT

10-22-2009, 06:47 PM	#73 (permalink)
shabarivas A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,188 Drives: 370z MB 6mt Rep Power: 914	LOL you are about to get assaulted by magazine numbers red... watchout!!