swift spec r spring

Bauran · 04-01-2015, 12:12 AM

Pretty straightforward question. Do the swift springs require any additiond parts to make them work. I researched and some say no additional needed some say you do. If so, what and why.

Yes I searched, that's where my confusion and prompted the question.

Thank you all for the help in advance.

Zipper 104 · 04-01-2015, 01:56 AM

I understand where you're coming from. I just went through all this and despite all the DIYs and information on this site I had to piece all of it together to sort it all out to my satisfaction.

Here's what I did, or will be doing now after the fact;

1) Swift Spec-Rs

2) Rear camber arms ( I used SPL...these are adjustable; the stock arms only have a small range of adjustment using an eccentric bolt on the inboard end)

3) Toe bolts (SPC...to replace the stock bolts in conjunction with elongating the stock holes to extend the adjustment range in order to bring the toe back into spec once the camber has been brought back to spec...moving the camber messes with the toe)

4) Lock out bolts (SPL....to replace the stock eccentric bolts on the inboard end of the camber arms so they won't slip and mess up your camber; all the camber adjustment will be done on the arms alone)

Now what I haven't done;

Front Upper arms (to allow camber adjustment on the front end)

NOTE;

A lot of folks here have chosen to not do camber arms on the rear, nor toe bolts, nor lockouts, nor front upper arms, or did, or didn't do a combination of them. If you read through all the Swift related threads you will no doubt hear a lot of different opinions and reasons why people chose to do what they did. I make no judgements.
I did (or will be doing) what I did from the conclusions I arrived at reading all the stuff I was able to find. Like you, I wish I had been able to find it all in one spot.
Some folks were able to get their camber and toe settings after installing Swifts to a point they were happy without the extra expense. There are others here who chose to go all in and have their reasons. I did my Swift install initially without using lockouts nor did I install the toe bolts or elongate the holes. (even though I had the toe bolts in hand)
I am doing that now after the fact. I am not doing the front upper arms because the concensus here seems to be that almost everyone saw spec numbers without doing the front arms. (the front upper arms are mucho $$$, IMO, but I haven't completely ruled out doing them down the road)

Hopefully, others will chime in here on top of what I've said.
I hope I've helped a bit here. It all makes a heck of a lot more sense once you're gotten yourself under the car to see what's going on there.

104

onzedge · 04-01-2015, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bauran

Pretty straightforward question. Do the swift springs require any additiond parts to make them work. I researched and some say no additional needed some say you do. If so, what and why.

Yes I searched, that's where my confusion and prompted the question.

Thank you all for the help in advance.

There are many threads related to this question. Search is your friend.

onzedge · 04-01-2015, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zipper 104

I understand where you're coming from. I just went through all this and despite all the DIYs and information on this site I had to piece all of it together to sort it all out to my satisfaction.

Here's what I did, or will be doing now after the fact;

1) Swift Spec-Rs

2) Rear camber arms ( I used SPL...these are adjustable; the stock arms only have a small range of adjustment using an eccentric bolt on the inboard end)

3) Toe bolts (SPC...to replace the stock bolts in conjunction with elongating the stock holes to extend the adjustment range in order to bring the toe back into spec once the camber has been brought back to spec...moving the camber messes with the toe)

4) Lock out bolts (SPL....to replace the stock eccentric bolts on the inboard end of the camber arms so they won't slip and mess up your camber; all the camber adjustment will be done on the arms alone)

Now what I haven't done;

Front Upper arms (to allow camber adjustment on the front end)

NOTE;

A lot of folks here have chosen to not do camber arms on the rear, nor toe bolts, nor lockouts, nor front upper arms, or did, or didn't do a combination of them. If you read through all the Swift related threads you will no doubt hear a lot of different opinions and reasons why people chose to do what they did. I make no judgements.
I did (or will be doing) what I did from the conclusions I arrived at reading all the stuff I was able to find. Like you, I wish I had been able to find it all in one spot.
Some folks were able to get their camber and toe settings after installing Swifts to a point they were happy without the extra expense. There are others here who chose to go all in and have their reasons. I did my Swift install initially without using lockouts nor did I install the toe bolts or elongate the holes. (even though I had the toe bolts in hand)
I am doing that now after the fact. I am not doing the front upper arms because the concensus here seems to be that almost everyone saw spec numbers without doing the front arms. (the front upper arms are mucho $$$, IMO, but I haven't completely ruled out doing them down the road)

Hopefully, others will chime in here on top of what I've said.
I hope I've helped a bit here. It all makes a heck of a lot more sense once you're gotten yourself under the car to see what's going on there.

104

littlejuanito · 04-01-2015, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zipper 104

the front upper arms are mucho $$$, IMO.

The expensive price for just front upper arms ($700+) it's what has kept me from not upgrading my springs yet... and perhaps wont be doing it at all.

onzedge · 04-01-2015, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlejuanito

The expensive price for just front upper arms ($700+) it's what has kept me from not upgrading my springs yet... and perhaps wont be doing it at all.

My front end alignment is within specification without aftermarket arms. I am on Swift Spec-R springs plus Koni Yellows.

That Pale Guy · 04-01-2015, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zipper 104

I understand where you're coming from. I just went through all this and despite all the DIYs and information on this site I had to piece all of it together to sort it all out to my satisfaction.

Here's what I did, or will be doing now after the fact;

1) Swift Spec-Rs

2) Rear camber arms ( I used SPL...these are adjustable; the stock arms only have a small range of adjustment using an eccentric bolt on the inboard end)

3) Toe bolts (SPC...to replace the stock bolts in conjunction with elongating the stock holes to extend the adjustment range in order to bring the toe back into spec once the camber has been brought back to spec...moving the camber messes with the toe)

4) Lock out bolts (SPL....to replace the stock eccentric bolts on the inboard end of the camber arms so they won't slip and mess up your camber; all the camber adjustment will be done on the arms alone)

Now what I haven't done;

Front Upper arms (to allow camber adjustment on the front end)

NOTE;

A lot of folks here have chosen to not do camber arms on the rear, nor toe bolts, nor lockouts, nor front upper arms, or did, or didn't do a combination of them. If you read through all the Swift related threads you will no doubt hear a lot of different opinions and reasons why people chose to do what they did. I make no judgements.
I did (or will be doing) what I did from the conclusions I arrived at reading all the stuff I was able to find. Like you, I wish I had been able to find it all in one spot.
Some folks were able to get their camber and toe settings after installing Swifts to a point they were happy without the extra expense. There are others here who chose to go all in and have their reasons. I did my Swift install initially without using lockouts nor did I install the toe bolts or elongate the holes. (even though I had the toe bolts in hand)
I am doing that now after the fact. I am not doing the front upper arms because the concensus here seems to be that almost everyone saw spec numbers without doing the front arms. (the front upper arms are mucho $$$, IMO, but I haven't completely ruled out doing them down the road)

Hopefully, others will chime in here on top of what I've said.
I hope I've helped a bit here. It all makes a heck of a lot more sense once you're gotten yourself under the car to see what's going on there.

104

So I can just buy the springs off of Amazon, take it to a shop for install and call it a day? I'm assuming the extra things that you are buying are to refine the way it looks and/or feels?

Zipper 104 · 04-01-2015, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Pale Guy

So I can just buy the springs off of Amazon, take it to a shop for install and call it a day? I'm assuming the extra things that you are buying are to refine the way it looks and/or feels?

Well, this is why I attempted to 'qualify' what I put in my response to the OP.
It's not for me to tell you what you need, or not need to buy. It's up to you to read through all the related threads like I did to arrive at your own conclusion as to what you ought to do. I did what I did because I felt the extra expense was worth it to me to cover the 'grey' areas. That is, I wanted to make sure I could get the rear camber well in the spec range and have the ability to get the toe back to where it needs to be. There are any number of folks who are quite happy to run numbers that myself (or others) might not feel comfortable with. I wanted to make sure I installed what it would take to hit the numbers I decided I wanted. Tires are expensive enough without having to buy them sooner than I need to. (OTOH, I will be glad to get the stock 050As off.... I just don't really want to do it any sooner than I have to)
What I hope I posted was a somewhat complete list of what my research told ME is needed to make me happy. Some will agree with me, others not. The OP just wanted a somewhat comprehensive list of what he might want to do.
When I went to determine what I would need it took a lot of homework and I couldn't find it all in one place. I was just attempting to save him from a bit of that. I hope I did that. In the event my list is not complete I hoped others would pile on and correct me.

104

wanker · 04-01-2015, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Pale Guy

So I can just buy the springs off of Amazon, take it to a shop for install and call it a day? I'm assuming the extra things that you are buying are to refine the way it looks and/or feels?

Only is you don't mind replacing your rear tires every six months. You will need adjustable rear camber arms... search the forum. It's all there.

Bauran · 04-02-2015, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onzedge

There are many threads related to this question. Search is your friend.

I hate these types of responces; I said I searched and the info is conflicted. Want proof don't search the forum, search this thread, every answer is different.

I understand that most here are old members and we have seen the same questions over and over but if we all give questions' answers as "search for it" then this forum is not long for this world.

And that's from a long time member myself and I know to search first. But even still if I didn't...if you have the knowledge someone needs... give it. If not, "bow out of the conversstion, believe me you are not contributing to the growing of the forum, you're killing it.

And I for one don't want to see it go stagnant.

To the rest who attempted to lend good advice, thank you; you make the world a better place.

nis350 · 04-02-2015, 08:28 PM

You can just install the springs then do an alignment after a couple of hundred miles if you don't want to spend all that cash at once I think you MAYBE able to get the alignment within the oem specs except the rear camber. Just set the rear toe near the minimum of the factory setting around 0.08 to 0.09 and your rear tires should last more than 6 mos unless you put in more than 15k miles.

You can always install the other stuffs if it is not to your liking later on.

I personally like the Swift springs because it rides/performs reasonably well and doesn't slam the car too low.

Good luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bauran

Pretty straightforward question. Do the swift springs require any additiond parts to make them work. I researched and some say no additional needed some say you do. If so, what and why.

Yes I searched, that's where my confusion and prompted the question.

Thank you all for the help in advance.

onzedge · 04-03-2015, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bauran

I hate these types of responces; I said I searched and the info is conflicted. Want proof don't search the forum, search this thread, every answer is different.

I understand that most here are old members and we have seen the same questions over and over but if we all give questions' answers as "search for it" then this forum is not long for this world.

And that's from a long time member myself and I know to search first. But even still if I didn't...if you have the knowledge someone needs... give it. If not, "bow out of the conversstion, believe me you are not contributing to the growing of the forum, you're killing it.

And I for one don't want to see it go stagnant.

To the rest who attempted to lend good advice, thank you; you make the world a better place.

You are right, my original reply was snarky and inappropriate.

So here is my learned opinion. It is not advice as I do not give advice. It is fact based on my 34 plus years' worth of experience with the Z in all of its forms/iterations. I have built, restored, modified, raced, wrecked and rebuilt Z cars since my first 1971 240Z I acquired in 1980.

Anyone who tells you that you can install the Swifts without other aftermarket parts is correct. I say correct if your objectives are a poor, even dangerous, ride quality and seriously shortened tire life. If your objective is to install the springs correctly and gain the full advantage they offer, then you will at least replace the rear camber arms and perhaps the toe bolts.

Alignment on the 370Z is critical and it is not possible to get the rear alignment in specification without replacing the rear camber arms with aftermarket units. SPL and SPC are commonly chosen. SPC arms have been known to break under severe load. SPL arms, although pricey, are better built and dramatically stronger. I run SPL rear camber arms. On a side note, I also run SPL end links with my Hotchkis sway bars.

Regarding the toe bolts, it is hit and miss. The first few 370Zs I have worked on, with which I have been associated, needed the aftermarket toe bolts; the last few have not, including my current 370Z.

In terms of the front alignment, I have been able to get in spec every time without aftermarket upper control arms, but am always very close to the spec limit on camber.

If It were me in your shoes, I would buy the springs, rear camber arms and toe bolts (just in case), take it somewhere where they can align it, install springs and camber arms, check alignment and then install toe bolts I f needed.

I hope this helps and I hope you have a great day.

onzedge™ has written

Bauran · 04-03-2015, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onzedge

You are right, my original reply was snarky and inappropriate.

So here is my learned opinion. It is not advice as I do not give advice. It is fact based on my 34 plus years' worth of experience with the Z in all of its forms/iterations. I have built, restored, modified, raced, wrecked and rebuilt Z cars since my first 1971 240Z I acquired in 1980.

Anyone who tells you that you can install the Swifts without other aftermarket parts is correct. I say correct if your objectives are a poor, even dangerous, ride quality and seriously shortened tire life. If your objective is to install the springs correctly and gain the full advantage they offer, then you will at least replace the rear camber arms and perhaps the toe bolts.

Alignment on the 370Z is critical and it is not possible to get the rear alignment in specification without replacing the rear camber arms with aftermarket units. SPL and SPC are commonly chosen. SPC arms have been known to break under severe load. SPL arms, although pricey, are better built and dramatically stronger. I run SPL rear camber arms. On a side note, I also run SPL end links with my Hotchkis sway bars.

Regarding the toe bolts, it is hit and miss. The first few 370Zs I have worked on, with which I have been associated, needed the aftermarket toe bolts; the last few have not, including my current 370Z.

In terms of the front alignment, I have been able to get in spec every time without aftermarket upper control arms, but am always very close to the spec limit on camber.

If It were me in your shoes, I would buy the springs, rear camber arms and toe bolts (just in case), take it somewhere where they can align it, install springs and camber arms, check alignment and then install toe bolts I f needed.

I hope this helps and I hope you have a great day.

onzedge™ has written

Thank yor this is precisely the answer I was looking for. Tires are expensive and I think we'd all like them to last as long as possible.

as to my previous post, it was not meant at you directly but the culture of the boards I see it going to. I hope there are no hard feeling...as I said I value the opinion of the members on this board, hence why I ask questions here and not else where.

Again thank you guys for the info, I'd rather spend a comparatively little amount of cash to ensure tire life than to forego the expense now and have to spend a lot of cash later on new tires.

Thanks

onzedge · 04-03-2015, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bauran

Thank yor this is precisely the answer I was looking for. Tires are expensive and I think we'd all like them to last as long as possible.

as to my previous post, it was not meant at you directly but the culture of the boards I see it going to. I hope there are no hard feeling...as I said I value the opinion of the members on this board, hence why I ask questions here and not else where.

Again thank you guys for the info, I'd rather spend a comparatively little amount of cash to ensure tire life than to forego the expense now and have to spend a lot of cash later on new tires.

Thanks

You seem to have some solid thinking around this topic. I am happy to have helped.

NoHyperbole · 04-03-2015, 03:06 PM

What onzedge has written is good information and should absolutely be followed.

I just had Swift springs, SPL camber links, and SPC toe bolts installed yesterday. Today, I had the car aligned. The tech was able to put the rear wheels almost exactly in the middle of the stock alignment specifications, which is probably adequate for a car that is not tracked (-1.7 / -1.6 camber and .12 / .13 toe). I'm sure the SPL/SPC parts guaranteed this outcome, so I recommend that you get these parts if you get the Swift springs. It's the smart way to go for $300 in parts.

The front wheels, however, are a different story. The front camber and caster are not adjustable unless you buy the SPL front upper arms, which cost $700+. Most people choose not to go this route because this will effectively double the cost of lowering your car. Also, they are not as necessary as the rear suspension pieces.

Anyway, the tech was able to set the front toe just about perfectly (.07 / .08). Excellent. The caster is 5.1 / 4.8. The left-to-right variance is a bit high, but okay. So that brings us to camber. I knew beforehand that the negative camber would increase when lowering the car. I had the car aligned 700 miles before I installed the springs, and the front camber was -.8 / -.9 at that time. The max spec is -1.4, and I was fine with going to that point or even slightly higher (maybe up to -1.8). What I didn't expect was the cross-camber variance I got of .5 (-1.2 / -1.7).

Again, as far as I know, the only way to change the camber and caster on the front wheels is to buy the SPL front upper arms.

So my questions are these: Is there any detriment to having cross-camber and cross-caster variance? If so, how big does the variance have to be?

I hope that people will find this thread useful and that it will save them time when researching Swift springs.

04-01-2015, 12:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
Bauran Base Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: NC Posts: 117 Drives: 12 370Z Nismo M6 Rep Power: 12	swift spec r spring Pretty straightforward question. Do the swift springs require any additiond parts to make them work. I researched and some say no additional needed some say you do. If so, what and why. Yes I searched, that's where my confusion and prompted the question. Thank you all for the help in advance.

04-01-2015, 01:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
Zipper 104 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Canada's Wet Coast Posts: 480 Drives: '13 PW/Frost/Spt/AT Rep Power: 11	I understand completely... I understand where you're coming from. I just went through all this and despite all the DIYs and information on this site I had to piece all of it together to sort it all out to my satisfaction. Here's what I did, or will be doing now after the fact; 1) Swift Spec-Rs 2) Rear camber arms ( I used SPL...these are adjustable; the stock arms only have a small range of adjustment using an eccentric bolt on the inboard end) 3) Toe bolts (SPC...to replace the stock bolts in conjunction with elongating the stock holes to extend the adjustment range in order to bring the toe back into spec once the camber has been brought back to spec...moving the camber messes with the toe) 4) Lock out bolts (SPL....to replace the stock eccentric bolts on the inboard end of the camber arms so they won't slip and mess up your camber; all the camber adjustment will be done on the arms alone) Now what I haven't done; Front Upper arms (to allow camber adjustment on the front end) NOTE; A lot of folks here have chosen to not do camber arms on the rear, nor toe bolts, nor lockouts, nor front upper arms, or did, or didn't do a combination of them. If you read through all the Swift related threads you will no doubt hear a lot of different opinions and reasons why people chose to do what they did. I make no judgements. I did (or will be doing) what I did from the conclusions I arrived at reading all the stuff I was able to find. Like you, I wish I had been able to find it all in one spot. Some folks were able to get their camber and toe settings after installing Swifts to a point they were happy without the extra expense. There are others here who chose to go all in and have their reasons. I did my Swift install initially without using lockouts nor did I install the toe bolts or elongate the holes. (even though I had the toe bolts in hand) I am doing that now after the fact. I am not doing the front upper arms because the concensus here seems to be that almost everyone saw spec numbers without doing the front arms. (the front upper arms are mucho $$$, IMO, but I haven't completely ruled out doing them down the road) Hopefully, others will chime in here on top of what I've said. I hope I've helped a bit here. It all makes a heck of a lot more sense once you're gotten yourself under the car to see what's going on there. 104 Merv likes this. Last edited by Zipper 104; 04-01-2015 at 01:58 AM. Reason: edit

04-03-2015, 03:06 PM	#15 (permalink)
NoHyperbole Base Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 216 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 11	What onzedge has written is good information and should absolutely be followed. I just had Swift springs, SPL camber links, and SPC toe bolts installed yesterday. Today, I had the car aligned. The tech was able to put the rear wheels almost exactly in the middle of the stock alignment specifications, which is probably adequate for a car that is not tracked (-1.7 / -1.6 camber and .12 / .13 toe). I'm sure the SPL/SPC parts guaranteed this outcome, so I recommend that you get these parts if you get the Swift springs. It's the smart way to go for $300 in parts. The front wheels, however, are a different story. The front camber and caster are not adjustable unless you buy the SPL front upper arms, which cost $700+. Most people choose not to go this route because this will effectively double the cost of lowering your car. Also, they are not as necessary as the rear suspension pieces. Anyway, the tech was able to set the front toe just about perfectly (.07 / .08). Excellent. The caster is 5.1 / 4.8. The left-to-right variance is a bit high, but okay. So that brings us to camber. I knew beforehand that the negative camber would increase when lowering the car. I had the car aligned 700 miles before I installed the springs, and the front camber was -.8 / -.9 at that time. The max spec is -1.4, and I was fine with going to that point or even slightly higher (maybe up to -1.8). What I didn't expect was the cross-camber variance I got of .5 (-1.2 / -1.7). Again, as far as I know, the only way to change the camber and caster on the front wheels is to buy the SPL front upper arms. So my questions are these: Is there any detriment to having cross-camber and cross-caster variance? If so, how big does the variance have to be? I hope that people will find this thread useful and that it will save them time when researching Swift springs. onzedge and Zipper 104 like this.

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