Hello from sunny North Carolina -- 370Z Traction control vs VDC issue

semtex · 01-16-2009, 10:35 AM

No worries. I'm just glad we got this sorted out. And thanks for doing the test! I'm glad that hitting the VDC Off button does, in fact, turn off TC. Of course, now I'm wondering what the manual is referring to when it says that ABLS stays on. Maybe I misunderstand what ABLS is/does. But I'm all acronymned out right now, so I'll just let sleeping dogs lie.

JoeyD · 01-16-2009, 11:00 AM

Thanks.

Here is my understanding of ABLS (Active Brake Limited Slip). It acts as a limited slip differential by braking a wheel that beggins to spin. This is probably what I was feeling that led me to believe the TC was still engaged...the nanny. However, I don't have a limited slip diff without the sport pack and I left two very even black marks. So, I would say the system functions fairly well.

semtex · 01-16-2009, 11:50 AM

So.....this kinda implies that if you do have the sport pkg, ABLS will do a much better job - via the LSD - of applying the brakes when wheelspin is detected. I guess I'll have to do a test as well to see what happens.

JoeyD · 01-16-2009, 02:37 PM

Does it? I would think that because you have an LSD the system would be used less. Mainly because you shouldn't have as much wheel spin. Either way braking as a means of eliminating wheels spin makes no sense from a performance stand point. Yeah it would be great in the snow and ice but at the track braking when you are trying to accelerate is bad juju.

semtex · 01-16-2009, 05:02 PM

Well, I just want to be able to do burnouts without getting b!tchslapped by VDC, TC, ABLS, ADD, ADHD, HIV, or whatever other acronym we can think of, that's all. I probably don't need to worry. I'm not inclined to do clutch drops until I'm done with the break-in period tho.

sbkim · 02-24-2009, 09:29 AM

Not to beat this issue further, but is it accurate to say with VDC button off, you no longer have traction control. HOWEVER, you may still have ABLS ON to help straighten the car out if the car goes side ways? ABLS more or less sounds like VDC.

So, did they mislabel the button? Should it have said TC on/off but VDC is always on.

Alexsered · 02-24-2009, 09:47 AM

hey joey, were you on any of the mazdaspeed forums? I'm selling my speed3, I love it, but I'm ready to step it up.

Glad to see some mazdaspeed people going to the 370z.

JoeyD · 02-24-2009, 12:04 PM

^ Yeah I was on the Mazdaspeed boards for a while. User name...you guessed it "JoeyD".

^^ The ABLS system is not stability control. It acts as a computer controlled, brake activated limited slip differential. In other words it brakes the wheel that is spinning to avoid power loss.

!xoible · 02-24-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

My understanding is that VDC encompasses TC. In other words, VDC is like TC and then some. You won't find a Nissan with separate VDC Off and TCS Off buttons -- it's one or the other. If you have VDC, you automatically have TC, but the reverse isn't true. i.e., it is possible to have TC only and no VDC, but not the other way around -- which makes sense as VDC is electronic stability control. For the record, Joey, I own the car too. I own a Touring model, and I do have the Sport Pkg, and can tell you that there is no separate TCS Off button -- just the VDC Off button. So your assertion that you can turn off TCS if you have the Sport Pkg isn't quite on the mark. Also, I referred back to the manual from my 350Z and found the following statement in the VDC section: "If the vehicle is operated with the VDC system turned off, all VDC system functions and TCS functions will be turned off." This goes to what I'm saying about VDC including TCS. Now, the interesting thing is that this verbiage is not present in the 370's manual. And that actually makes sense if all 370s come with VDC and none of them come with TCS only (my 350 came with TCS only). There's no need to differentiate between the two systems in the 370 as all 370s come with just the one. But the manual does also have this verbiage: "The ABLS system and ABS will still operate with the VDC system off." And prior to this sentence, it explains that ABLS brakes the spinning wheel when there's wheel slip.

SO . . . the net of this is that you're both right and wrong. You're wrong when you say that there's no button to turn off traction control in your car. Yes there is -- it's the VDC Off button. And as I previously stated, I have the Sport Pkg, and there's no separate TCS Off switch. The VDC Off button is it -- it's all we get regardless of trim line. But at the same time, you're right about there being no way to truly turn off traction control, because the manual comes right out and tells us that even with VDC off, the ABLS system still operates! And I agree with you -- that's really annoying! What's the point of having the VDC Off button if you can't ever truly turn the nanny off? But if it makes you feel any better, having the Sport Pkg doesn't change this. So you're not missing out on anything.

im a bit lost. how do u turn off VDC and keep TC on? ur saying turning off VDC will turn off everything!

so u either have a nanny car kicking u in the balls every time ur wheels want to spin a bit, or u have a car completely out of control?? I forgot how it was on my G35, but say in my 335 i had 2 modes one that allows some wheel spin (TC off), but DSC was still on (dynamic stability control), if you turn off DSC then ur on ur own, nothing is controlling the car.

same in my M3, i have DSC off (guaranteed to crash if you do not know what you're doing) or MDM (M dynamic mode) which allows some spin and hard launches without killing your power.

Could you please clarify? i will keep on reading up in the meanwhile. thanks!

JoeyD · 02-24-2009, 12:32 PM

One of my few gripes about the 370 is the TC/VDC system. It functions only two ways; all on or all off. In the all on mode the power can be suddenly and dramaticly lost, sometimes taking as long as 5-10 seconds to return (if you leave the pedal down). I hate this system as I believe it could cause an accident. Say you pull out in front of line of traffic with intentions to just hit it and safely accelerate in front of the line. Well with this system you could wind up with an essentially stalled car sitting in front of on coming traffic. Not only is it embarrasing but it could be dangerous.

ABLS is always on but it will not save you like a VDC system will.

I would love to see a traction control like that in the Corvettes. It's perfect. The system only takes as much power as is neccesary to keep the wheels from spinning. Essentially the TC gives you the best acceleration possible. Our system is like an overbaring parent scared that "you'll shoot your eye out."

sbkim · 02-24-2009, 03:16 PM

JoeyD - thank you for the clarification. I am really shocked by this fact. I also agree that intrusive VDC/TC can cause serious issues when you are trying to get out of harms way.

I was really hoping for at least three modes (similar to corvette, 335) - ALL OFF, VDC On, ALL ON.

!xoible · 02-24-2009, 03:29 PM

what do u guys use on the track btw?

semtex · 02-24-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !xoible

what do u guys use on the track btw?

We just turn VDC off on the track. And regarding your other post where you ask: "so u either have a nanny car kicking u in the balls every time ur wheels want to spin a bit, or u have a car completely out of control??" I'm not sure I understand the juxtaposition. Turning off VDC doesn't make the car go completely out of control. It just means that you have to rely on the old-fashioned traction control system called your right foot. Even if you induce wheelspin without any VDC or TC on, you can control it by modulating the throttle. I just wish there was a way to permanently disable VDC. If you turn it off, the next time you turn the car on, VDC will automatically be on again. It'd be nice if it'd stay off until you manually turn it on again. But I guess Nissan configured it that way as a safety/lawsuit precaution.

AK370Z · 02-24-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

If you turn it off, the next time you turn the car on, VDC will automatically be on again. It'd be nice if it'd stay off until you manually turn it on again. But I guess Nissan configured it that way as a safety/lawsuit precaution.

BMW is the same way. You can turn the DTC off but next time you turn the car on, it's defaulted to on. It's a safety issue and I highly doubt they will ever default it to remember the last setting.

!xoible · 02-24-2009, 06:01 PM

one button press is not a problem, u always gotta do something. nice thing about bmw is u can program all the settings into one button on the steering wheel with the nice little "M" on it

01-16-2009, 10:35 AM	#16 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 54 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	No worries. I'm just glad we got this sorted out. And thanks for doing the test! I'm glad that hitting the VDC Off button does, in fact, turn off TC. Of course, now I'm wondering what the manual is referring to when it says that ABLS stays on. Maybe I misunderstand what ABLS is/does. But I'm all acronymned out right now, so I'll just let sleeping dogs lie. __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

01-16-2009, 11:50 AM	#18 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 54 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	So.....this kinda implies that if you do have the sport pkg, ABLS will do a much better job - via the LSD - of applying the brakes when wheelspin is detected. I guess I'll have to do a test as well to see what happens. __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

01-16-2009, 05:02 PM	#20 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 54 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	Well, I just want to be able to do burnouts without getting b!tchslapped by VDC, TC, ABLS, ADD, ADHD, HIV, or whatever other acronym we can think of, that's all. I probably don't need to worry. I'm not inclined to do clutch drops until I'm done with the break-in period tho. kurtis likes this. __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

02-24-2009, 09:47 AM	#22 (permalink)
Alexsered Base Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Washington D.C. Posts: 20 Drives: 2007 Mazdaspeed3 GT Rep Power: 16	hey joey, were you on any of the mazdaspeed forums? I'm selling my speed3, I love it, but I'm ready to step it up. Glad to see some mazdaspeed people going to the 370z. __________________

02-24-2009, 12:04 PM	#23 (permalink)
JoeyD Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Raeford, NC Posts: 305 Drives: 09 NISMO 370Z Rep Power: 186	^ Yeah I was on the Mazdaspeed boards for a while. User name...you guessed it "JoeyD". ^^ The ABLS system is not stability control. It acts as a computer controlled, brake activated limited slip differential. In other words it brakes the wheel that is spinning to avoid power loss. __________________ When was the last time you did 230MPH in something with 4 seats?

01-16-2009, 11:00 AM	#17 (permalink)
JoeyD Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Raeford, NC Posts: 305 Drives: 09 NISMO 370Z Rep Power: 186	Thanks. Here is my understanding of ABLS (Active Brake Limited Slip). It acts as a limited slip differential by braking a wheel that beggins to spin. This is probably what I was feeling that led me to believe the TC was still engaged...the nanny. However, I don't have a limited slip diff without the sport pack and I left two very even black marks. So, I would say the system functions fairly well.

01-16-2009, 02:37 PM	#19 (permalink)
JoeyD Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Raeford, NC Posts: 305 Drives: 09 NISMO 370Z Rep Power: 186	Does it? I would think that because you have an LSD the system would be used less. Mainly because you shouldn't have as much wheel spin. Either way braking as a means of eliminating wheels spin makes no sense from a performance stand point. Yeah it would be great in the snow and ice but at the track braking when you are trying to accelerate is bad juju.

02-24-2009, 09:29 AM	#21 (permalink)
sbkim Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: nj Posts: 177 Drives: RRSC Rep Power: 16	Not to beat this issue further, but is it accurate to say with VDC button off, you no longer have traction control. HOWEVER, you may still have ABLS ON to help straighten the car out if the car goes side ways? ABLS more or less sounds like VDC. So, did they mislabel the button? Should it have said TC on/off but VDC is always on.

02-24-2009, 12:32 PM	#25 (permalink)
JoeyD Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Raeford, NC Posts: 305 Drives: 09 NISMO 370Z Rep Power: 186	One of my few gripes about the 370 is the TC/VDC system. It functions only two ways; all on or all off. In the all on mode the power can be suddenly and dramaticly lost, sometimes taking as long as 5-10 seconds to return (if you leave the pedal down). I hate this system as I believe it could cause an accident. Say you pull out in front of line of traffic with intentions to just hit it and safely accelerate in front of the line. Well with this system you could wind up with an essentially stalled car sitting in front of on coming traffic. Not only is it embarrasing but it could be dangerous. ABLS is always on but it will not save you like a VDC system will. I would love to see a traction control like that in the Corvettes. It's perfect. The system only takes as much power as is neccesary to keep the wheels from spinning. Essentially the TC gives you the best acceleration possible. Our system is like an overbaring parent scared that "you'll shoot your eye out." __________________ When was the last time you did 230MPH in something with 4 seats?

02-24-2009, 03:16 PM	#26 (permalink)
sbkim Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: nj Posts: 177 Drives: RRSC Rep Power: 16	JoeyD - thank you for the clarification. I am really shocked by this fact. I also agree that intrusive VDC/TC can cause serious issues when you are trying to get out of harms way. I was really hoping for at least three modes (similar to corvette, 335) - ALL OFF, VDC On, ALL ON. Last edited by sbkim; 02-24-2009 at 03:20 PM.

02-24-2009, 03:29 PM	#27 (permalink)
!xoible Base Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: west Posts: 245 Drives: some car Rep Power: 185	what do u guys use on the track btw?

02-24-2009, 06:01 PM	#30 (permalink)
!xoible Base Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: west Posts: 245 Drives: some car Rep Power: 185	one button press is not a problem, u always gotta do something. nice thing about bmw is u can program all the settings into one button on the steering wheel with the nice little "M" on it

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