Looking on info on Va Laws (mufflers and exhaust)

Sndtgr08

Slightly edited.

soooo, on my way to warrenton today, coming out of culpeper, I was doing the speed limit behind an old for pickup heading for 29 going 55mph or less @ 2500rpm. I saw ahead a state trooper backing into a sneaky spot on the right side of this 2 lane road. As I got up to him, he took one look at me and started pulling out before I was even past him. (Reason: I had no front tag displayed) He does not turn on his lights, but speeds to catch up. The 2 lane road turns into a devided hiway with 4 lanes total. I stay in the left lane behind the truck as we head for the on-ramp to Rt 29. The cop guns it and passed me on the left @ 70+ craining his neck to confirm I have no front plate. I turn on the ramp and look back to see him pulling a hard U-turn at the 1st break in the devide. I get on to 29 and make it about a mile before he races up behind me and kicks on his lights. I pull over and come to a stop, turn off my car and roll down my window.

The officer comes to my window and says "Licence and registration" I start to dig out my wallet and he says "Where is your front licence plate?". I hand him my drivers licence, look him in the eye and said "On the front". He turns and walks strait to the front of my car, looks down, and stairs for a full 5 seconds. He then comes back to my window and I hand him the registration. He then says "mmmmmmm well. How long have you had that exhaust?" I said "over 2 years". He tells me "It's louder then factory and I am going to have to write you a ticket" I looked at him and said "What in the hell are you talking about, are you telling me you heard my car from 30ft away with your windows up while I did the speed limit past you?" He nods his head and says "yep"

I will stop the story there because thats where I exploded and called him a lier and started to scream at him that every diesel in Culpeper is louder then me and half of them have cut there bed and have smokestacks coming up through them, every ricer in town has the real fart cannons and sound like fking mopeds going by and on and on, untill I gave him one more chance and said "You sure you dont want to make this a warning?" (head shake) Long and short is, I got him on the plate and he was mad and want to grasp at straws and lie to my face. I know he didt hear me, and my car was OFF when he came to my window and he could not have heard me and more when the pickup was infront of me as I puttered past him 30ft away with his windows up. I even started it for him afterwards while he was close and showed him how loud it realy was(At idle)

So on my ticket he wrote "46.2-1049 Defective/Inadequite Exhaust. Too Loud"

Here is how the law is writen:
"No person shall drive and no owner of a vehicle shall permit or allow the operation of any such vehicle on a highway unless it is equipped with an exhaust system in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual levels of noise; provided however, that for motor vehicles, such exhaust system shall be of a type installed as standard factory equipment, or comparable to that designed for use on the particular vehicle as standard factory equipment. An exhaust system shall not be deemed to prevent excessive or unusual noise if it permits the escape of noise in excess of that permitted by the standard factory equipment exhaust system of private passenger motor vehicles or trucks of standard make. "


Not worried about the noise, I know I am far from "excessive" even tho Va is gahy and does not give a solid db level for what excessive is. But:

"or comparable to that designed for use on the particular vehicle as standard factory equipment" I read this as, it has to made for my car, and do what my old one did. I can make the comparaison, it pipes my exhaust out the back through muffelrs to dampin the noise, just like my factory one, just designed better, stainless steel,and less bends. It was manufactured Just for my model and make, just like my factory one. Am I missing something or is that not comparaison enough? It's not like I strait piped it and it sounds like a Harley.

Since the officer lied to my face, I feel its my duty to call him out on in front of the whole court, If the prosecutor dosent just drop it before I get a chance. He did not hear me and only chased me down to write me a ticket for no front plate, after failing this, he lied about hearing my car and started to nit pick on dumb shyt.

I would love to hear any input, or info you guys have on exahust vs police in Va.

RandyD

sux.. but sounds like you will be ok if you 'waste your time' in court.

you shouldn't go with the ' i pushed the button to show the plate' part of the story..

Sndtgr08

Roadster4Us

I have had a few friends that received tickets for aftermarket exhausts. I wouldn't recommend calling the officer a liar in court, judge probably won't appreciate that. I would just explain that you were pulled over because the officer believed you weren't running a front plate and never mentioned the exhaust until after he saw that you did have a plate. Also wouldn't hurt to get a db reading on your exhaust to show the court.

You are lucky the cop didn't get on his knees to see if you had that system

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Greg


2013 Camaro ZL1

Cristobal09

That right there will NEVER work in your favor.

Was this fauquier county sheriff? or state trooper? I assume this was 211.

If its fauquier county, youve got it in the bag if you fight it. I know the judge and he couldnt care less about stuff like that. Speeding or DUI on the other hand is a whole other ball game.

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2004YZFR1

The state of va. has lots of safety nazi's. I lived there for about 13 years and am glad that I live out here in the wild west were they don't go crazy on stupid stuff like that. Good luck!

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Red__Zed

VA law gives them a lot of room. Subaru guys lose cases all the time with SPT exhaust (which are a dealer-installed part and probably quieter than whatever you have on the Z).

Your aftermarket exhaust DOES NOT qualify as OEM-type.

The "comparable to" line is a loophole for people that get a Midas exhaust or the like.

I have had to appear in court with a completely stock exhaust on my car, and it was still an uphill battle...

PapoZalsa

Yeap, the first thing the judge is going to ask the officer is if you were polite and cooperated with him...arguing with the cop (strike one). Never argue with a cop.

The arguments can be made at the court hearing in a polite manner, like quoting the VA regulatios for exhaust.

However, any non-OEM exhaust is deem ilegal in the Republic of VA.

GL in the court date!

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ZCarMan

A Contour ROAM or GoPro would have been helpful in this case. You're right though, he was confounded and used the exhaust as an excuse to still ticket you.

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Jon

Sndtgr08

Sorry to leave that out, It was a state trooper stationed out of Culpeper co.

eastwest2300

Dude, I laughed my azz off when you said he walked up to the front of your car looking for your plate, his jaw probably dropped in shock... it had to been hillarious, I woulda probably cracked up laughing at that point had I been in your situation.

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Infiniti QX70 & Toyota Supra 3.0 Premium

ResIpsa

I have always wanted to try one of these cases. However, even if I charged almost nothing it would cost more to retain me than just pay the fine. The "or comparable to that designed for use on the particular vehicle as standard factory equipment” language should (in the real world) make these cases impossible for the prosecutor to prove.

The statute should require the prosecutor to bring in an expert witness. In this case, probably a Nissan technician to testify about the design and noise level of the factory exhaust. Then the technician would have to testify about the design and noise level of the factory exhaust. In my opinion, this would also require a decibel gauge.

Of course, the technician will have no expertise on the aftermarket exhaust. Therefore, the prosecutor would then need a separate expert witness for the aftermarket exhaust. That witness should be required to testify that the aftermarket exhaust is not “comparable to that designed for use” on a 370Z and that it is measurably louder.

Unfortunately, this is not what happens in the real world. The cop just uses your statement that it is an aftermarket exhaust and testifies that, in his opinion, it was louder.

If you want to fight this in court, you could try the following:

However, nothing in this post should be considered legal advice and you should always contact an experienced attorney regarding any legal matters. Also, never rely on legal advice taken from a forum post. Finally, nothing here should be taken as forming an attorney client relationship nor impose any obligation to any party.

First off, never admit to having an aftermarket exhaust. I don’t care if you have open tube headers sticking out of your hood. Even if the officer asks, you have a 5th amendment right against self incrimination.

This scenario assumes that you will not talk to the prosecutor or officer before your case is called. That may or may not be a good thing to do. But in this case, let’s just try and ambush them. Again, not always the best thing to do…

When your case is called wait for the officer to testify. After the officers testimony the judge will ask if you have any questions for the officer.

Keep in mind that you need to be disciplined and courteous to the judge and the officer. (Sorry Sndtgr08 I don’t think you could pull this off) Don’t go into a diatribe about your perceived injustice or your angst. Don’t give your side of the story. JUST ASK THE OFFICER STRAIGHT LEADING (YES OR NO ANSWERS) QUESTIONS. Assuming that all the officers answers are going to be no.

Can you describe the design of the exhaust system of a 2009 370Z?
Does the 370Z exhaust design utilize baffling? Chambering? Packed metal fibers? Resonators?
Can you describe the design of the exhaust system on my car?
Does the exhaust design on my car utilize baffling? Chambering? Packed metal fibers? Resonators?
How loud, in decibels, is a 370Z exhaust?
How loud, in decibels, is the exhaust on my car?
Does the police department have any device to gauge the decibels of sound or an exhaust? (this he may answer yes)
(if he answered yes) But in this case you chose not to utilize a decibel gauge?

Then you would tell the judge you have no further questions (I like to say “I’m done with this guy”). The Judge will then ask if you have anything to say (if he asks for a copy of your driving record from the cop you have already lost).

Your closing argument would be something like: Your honor, the Officer testified that he did not know the design of the 370Z exhaust or my exhaust. Also, he does not know the decibel level of a stock exhaust much less my exhaust. (now hand up a printed copy of the code section regarding exhausts). I don’t believe that the officer proved beyond a reasonable doubt that my exhaust was not of a comparable design or that it was louder than a stock exhaust.

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The Reed Law Firm; Michael Fasano VA Attorney and Counselor at Law: A Virginia Traffic, Criminal, and Family Lawyer.https://reedlawva.com/

Sndtgr08

@ ResIpsa

Exactly the strait info I was looking for. Thank you!



UPDATE!

No the officer did not atempt to take a reading and I would venture to say they do not own one. I have this shipping to me now Amazon.com: USB Handy Digital Sound Noise Level Meter Decibel Pressure Logger with Tripod Mounting: Everything Else

I plan on taking readings at the interestion of the court house at various time of the day on a weekend, video it and log my results to get an average of what "normal" is, close enough that any officer from the court can duplucate my results. I also plan on setting it in a friends crown vic in the spot the officer was sitting and drive back and forth 10 times, on video to show that he could not hear me. I have also started a petition that I plan on getting all my neighbors to sign saying they feel my exhaust is not "excessive or unusual"

Before work today I went to the court house to subpoena the tapes of the cruiser. Of course the clerk knows the officer who pulled me over. This Clerk of the Court told me she had no clue what I was talking about and said she did not know what form to give me. I found this to be a load of crap as lawers subpoena for records all of the time. I told her that I am just a citizen and as Clerk of the court its your job and duty to provide me with the documents I need! It took me 10 minutes and me taking down her name on a piece of paper and writing "will not provide proper form" before she gave me a "Subpoena Duces Tecum" but refused to tell me exactly what the form is for, so I have some digging to do to make sure its the right form. ResIpsa, Whats the correct form? As I am reading it on line, it works for medical records and such...its used in divorce...Can it work against the State Trooper to provide the tapes and records?


After work today I went to the Culpeper State Police HQ and asked to speak with a supervisor. I was directed to the Sargents office in the building next door. After they sat me in the lobby I see that the officer that pulled me over was there! What luck! I can hear him tell the sargent the story of him pulling me over for my "Exhaust" and totaly skip the crazy hi speed chase over my licenece plate. About 10 minutes later(The Sarge pulled my perfectly clean driving record at this time) I was told to go in. He starts in on "You have a clean driving record, you know the ticket carries no points" I say "I am not here to talk to you about my ticket. I am here to talk to you about how your officers conduct them selfs." I went on to tell him the parts the street cop left out and told him that I did not want to file an official complaint. I just dont want the officer to wreck into the next person he tries to pull over or scare them or there children. He tells me "I take all compaints Very seriously, and you can be asured the officer will be repremanded. Nobody in my district has free reign to drive recklessly and endanger others. I give my officers no slack and I can assure you he will be delt with. I understand the officer was in the wrong, but you have to understand we are only human and do make mistakes." There is more, but then he goes on to tell me I should bring my original recipt for the exhaust to court and any other documantation I can provide to prove it is an exhaust made for my car and not some modified strait pipe. I asked him if he would like to come out to my car and hear it run, or even take it for a spin as I have nothing to hide, but he said he could not as it may in someway be interfering in the case.

EDIT:
"You cannot subpoena police records unless the subpoena is part of the discovery phase in a current legal matter, which means there will have to be both an open court case involving you, and a reason for you to subpoena police records (for example, if a police officer is a party to the lawsuit in regards to an auto accident)."

"Draft a Subpoena Duces Tecum, which is a subpoena ordering the police department to testify about certain evidence, or provide evidence like police records, recordings, and other tangible evidence in lieu of testifying. Clearly state which records you are requesting, full names, case or matter numbers, any date(s), time(s), or place(s) applicable to the records, and any other information that will help the police department determine exactly what records you are requesting. Sign the bottom, and create a signature line for a court agent or judge to sign."

This is getting exciting I'll Update again when I have the petition and the test results from the Decibel Pressure reader.

final edit 8:56

ResIpsa

Most police cruisers do not carry audio/visual recording devices. I highly doubt that the Culpeper State Troopers have these.

And even if the Trooper had one, what is that going to prove? Forget the subpoena.

Also, that petition is complete heresay and inadmissable at trial.

You need to stay focused on what I posted earlier.

__________________
The Reed Law Firm; Michael Fasano VA Attorney and Counselor at Law: A Virginia Traffic, Criminal, and Family Lawyer.https://reedlawva.com/

Cristobal09

IMHO, I think you made things worse by going and complaining to the Sargeant. It doesnt help matters that the cop saw you there as well complaining about him. If this was a speeding ticket that was going to affect your insurance/driver's record, I could see why you would be concerned. You have no idea how many times I was pulled over (back when I was 19-20 years old) for not having a front license plate on my Civic, you just deal with it and pay the fine. It SUCKS that the cop gave you a ticket for an exhaust, and I know its BS. But I personally would just pay the ticket and be done with it. I would also just run your FLP so cops dont have another reason to stop you to begin with. Good luck with whatever you do though, and itd be great if you won this, but I feel you're fighting a losing battle.

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