wstar's Journal

wstar · 05-16-2013, 02:55 PM

No garage, just random paddock parking. I've never even looked into garage spaces at any of the TDE events, I guess I should find out about that someday. I'm excited too, but nervous about so many changes on the car all at once.

I couldn't wait for this evening, so I took it out for a stress-test drive over lunch. No leaks, and temp data looks pretty awesome so far. "Normal" street driving - cruising around 2.5Krpm in the mid-day heat, the car would settle at oil/water temps of 180 and 177. I found an empty back-road stretch and gave the car a close-to-track-conditions flogging for about 7 minutes straight and I was still at 200/194. A soon as I backed off the agression, the car cooled back down to its steady-state in a minute or two.

Only problem I noted during the test-drive was an oddly-specific transmission issue. In general the transmission is fine, but if I brake in 3rd gear down to fairly low revs (~3K) and then transition right back to hard gas, the transmission lockup slips, the engine revs up freely for half second, and then the trans finally locks up (and by then the engine's way past matching revs and the tires burn a little). I'll try it again this evening and see if I can characterize it better, maybe. My random diagnostic thoughts right now are:

1) That my filling procedure didn't really work for setting the fluid level correctly, and braking down in 3rd at low revs just happens to slosh the too-low fluid in a way that it can't get pressure to lock up 3rd gear when I nail the gas pedal again. I could break this down into two possible filling errors: (a) that with all the air I needed to work out of the lines/system, my fill just wasn't going to be accurate until I really drove the transmission on the street a bit, in which case going back through the final step would fix it, or (b) technically, I don't think the service manual says to stop the engine when doing the final at-temperature fill/bleed. My best judgement was that turning the engine back off was implicit in the instruction to lift the car, etc, but maybe I really do need the engine running to set the fill correctly.

2) That I've damaged some seal/valve/solenoid whatever from track abuse at the last event and this is the first time I've noticed since getting home and then having the car on the lift forever.

3) Could be with the free-er revving engine (no more AC), I've crossed some threshold where I need to up the line pressure a bit more to catch it? I may play with line pressure in general for debugging this later.

I'd think if it was just a fill problem, I'd be able to reproduce the same slip condition in 2nd or 4th, which I was unable to do with a few attempts earlier, just 3rd. Could be specific to odd gears though (many internal passages/components are odd/even-specific), and it would be hard to reproduce the same type of condition in 1st or 5th.

I really wish I could get on the Nissan Batphone and find out for sure whether the final level check on the transmission was meant to be with the car running. Maybe GTM would know...

ChrisSlicks · 05-16-2013, 03:34 PM

Most likely a combination of 1 a) and b). The auto trans I've done this on required the engine to be running and transmission in N or P when you do the level check via drain plug. If the engine is off too much fluid comes out.

wstar · 05-16-2013, 03:38 PM

Ah! It seems so foreign to me to set a fill level while something's running, but I guess this is also the only transmission of this nature I've ever seen. Maybe I'll try that this evening. Thanks for the directional hint

wstar · 05-16-2013, 03:54 PM

Oh another random note from the test-drive: I don't have the Z1 trans mount on yet, just the engine mounts. You can definitely feel the difference. I wouldn't say it's annoying or adds a huge amount of body vibration to the car, but if you're paying attention you definitely "feel" the engine more through the seat of your pants. I'd say throttle response (as in "reaction time of feeling the engine respond to a sudden change") feels a little snappier with stiffer mounts, but I also deleted the AC compressor at the same time and that's probably helping on that front a little as well.

Jsolo · 05-16-2013, 10:36 PM

I've done drain/fills on several gm trans's. The procedure has always been to check the fluid level with the car running, otherwise the fluid is concentrated not where it should be. I'd try the procedure in the fsm verbatim and see what happens.

wstar · 05-16-2013, 10:42 PM

I'm in the midst of doing so now, thanks guys

This is actually the first automatic trans car I've ever owned (and I'm getting old now), so I guess even if all auto trans are filled while running, I'd never have known it. I guess it's karma for second-guessing the service manual, too.

My initial check (fill to overflow) with it running at around the right ballpark temp, I ended up adding about 1.5 quarts to get it up from the "engine off" overflow level to the "engine on" overflow level. I have no doubt that's enough to cause problems.

It took me a while to swap bottles and whatnot and by then the temp was about 10 degrees past where it should be. So I capped it early while it was still flowing out a bit, and now I'm letting the car cool back off again so that I can do the final overflow level-setting at the right temp. Later tonight I'll go for a midnight test run to Denny's or something and see if it's still slipping in 3rd.

Also, I finally got the Z1 trans mount installed earlier while the car was cooling off the first time. Really, really easy to install, even on a stock car with everything attached. You just need a way to get the car up in the air (normal jackstands at a mid-high setting would work), and a bottle jack to hold, not truly lift the rear of the trans itself. The rest is just 8x fasteners to drop the crossmember, drop out the old mount, then reinstall it all, drop the bottle jack, drop the car. I'll see how that feels on my midnight run as well.

Rusty · 05-16-2013, 11:41 PM

sub'd.

wstar · 05-17-2013, 01:37 AM

Operation: Denny's Run was a success. Trans is back to flawless now with the correct fill level (thanks guys!). Cooling data still looks awesome. I had to stay down a gear and keep the revs up around 4K cruising just to keep my oil at 170 now that we're in the cool night air. A few light moments harder on the car brought it to 180 but never past. If I had thought ahead / known, I would've blocked half the front grill with duct tape for the drive.

AP/Stillen BBK + CL RC6E is still feeling awesome. I don't think I've yet hit a street-test scenario that will really tell me whether I'm gonna hit any minor ice-mode-like issues with this setup or not. I'm sure I'll find out this weekend at TWS.

The trans mount made the drivetrain feel a little more connected to the body again, like the engine mounts. It might make a larger difference throttling on track-out at the limit, but on the street I'd say the change was "noticeable, but minimal". The engine mount change was more noticeable than the trans. This is the opposite of Spohn's impression of the two, but the difference is likely his 6MT setup versus my 7AT.

wstar · 05-20-2013, 11:45 AM

So I had a fun weekend at TWS. There were a number of minor issues with me and the car, and it certainly wasn't my best/fastest weekend, but I learned a lot. This weekend was the rare Clockwise direction there, totally new to me. The CCW direction I ran last time out there was much more of a "feeling" track where you could just traction-sense your way through it and rock around there in no time. This CW direction it seems a bit more technical and unforgiving, but it's still really fun to learn.

I left my USB stick at home and didn't realize it until I was ready to hit the Record button for the first session of the weekend. I picked one up Sat night locally and only got session data for Sunday. Had one true spin Saturday and an off-track excursion Sunday. Neither were particularly brutal, but I had to hop some tall kerbing getting back on the track from my Saturday spin, and I managed to bang up my FI mufflers a bit on the way over.

Tires / Camber

My tires are really hating my lack of camber still. They were already fairly worn down at the outsides when I started this weekend, and I finished them off this weekend. They could limp through another weak session or two, but no way I'm starting another whole weekend on them. It made the weekend interesting, because while I was learning the track better with every session, my front tire grip was also getting worse with each session. In the net, I think I peaked on the second session of the weekend and my times just went downhill from there.

On that second session I was probably running in the top 10% of the pack, and by the end of Sunday at least half the group was outpacing me while I adjusted down to the tires. About halfway through the weekend, I adjusted my rear sway and all 4 dampers to intentionally make the rear end slipperier (+1 stiff on rear sway, +1 stiff on rear damper, -2 stiff on front dampers), which helped balance the car back out to the front tires' pace somewhat. I didn't really like the very-understeery feel I was getting before that.

Really need adjustable front camber. I'd hate to tear up yet another set of fronts this way.

Transmission

No trans issues all weekend. Apparently the Motul Multi-ATF fluid works fine. If it didn't I'm sure the stress of the weekend would've made it apparent. The upsized cooler kept fluid temps in check and I never got into any hot/laggy shifts.

Brakes

Overall I was really impressed with the new brake setup (recap: CL RC6E front and rear, APRacing/Stillen BBK). I was peaking around 0.9g in the hardest braking zones without hitting any hint of ice-mode or engaging ABS. Zero issues with deposits/judder/etc. Modulation was even easier than the previous setup (CL pads + Stock calipers), which was already nice due to those CL pads.

My only minor complaint here is the design of the pad pins on those front calipers (CP7040 I think they are?). They only lock in via some dinky little snap rings. They're a pain in the *** to drive the lock ring into place (tapping in from the inside of the car), and they just don't hold very well even when they're pushed in correctly. I had both pins on the right front back out of the caliper on-track for me. They only backed out about half an inch, the outside pad moved a little out of position, and then everything kinda seized up in that configuration so the pin couldn't fall all the way out. I didn't even notice a feel change on track, but DR_ spotted it in the paddock afterwards.

Needs a better retention solution. Just letting the pins stick out the other side to install cotter pins like the stock caliper would probably fix it...

Cooling Changes

The new cooling config (25/9 oil, 19/6 trans, CSF rad w/o condenser, heater bypassed w/ 3/4" silicone, 80/20 mix + MoCool) definitely works as a configuration. My worst-case peaks all weekend were 225 oil and 221 water. More typical for most of the session time was about 220 and 216.

However, I still have a leak in the coolant system somewhere

The behavior over the weekend was that coming into the paddock after a run the overflow bottle would be fairly full of hot coolant, but after the car cooled down hardly any of it went back into the system. Then I'd open the rad cap and find a fairly large pocket of air in the system. Refilling that manually from the excess in the overflow tank got things back to a sane starting point for the next session, so I did that all weekend.

We're talking somewhere between 1-2 quarts of fluid displaced out to the tank and not recovering per session. Given that my water temps were reasonable during the session, I don't think the air bubble appeared until the system cools down and de-pressurizes, but it's drawing air from some minor leak at that time instead of drawing back fluid from the overflow. Preliminary diagnosis at the track (trying cold starts with hand-guestimate pressure-checking, smell, etc), it seems unlikely to be a combustion->water head gasket leak. There's no contamination to indicate oil<->water leak from the head gasket or water pump. Most likely I either still have a pinhole leak in the external hose connections and piping somewhere (perhaps a hose clamp that doesn't leak outwards at pressure, but does draw air back in during de-pressure?), or I have a head gasket leak at the edge from coolant to the outside world. I'm going to play with a pressure-test rig tomorrow and diagnose it.

Power stuff

The car definitely felt snappier on the the throttle all around. Engine/trans mounts, lack of AC compressor, and lower operating temps all contributed to that I'm sure. Taking a little weight out of the engine bay couldn't have hurt either. Hopefully I get time to gut the interior ac/heat stuff soon as well, and then start in on the cage/harness stuff.

Youtube of my fastest recorded lap at 2:10, which wasn't all that fast compared to what I should've been able to work up to, IMHO. I probably had a better time earlier in the weekend while I lacked a USB stick:

SPOHN · 05-20-2013, 12:01 PM

Yea those AP caliber pins suck. But I can live with it.

ChrisSlicks · 05-20-2013, 12:02 PM

On the 09's the cap on the overflow doesn't seal properly. Not sure if that is 100% required in order to create the proper draw required (since the low pressure from the cooling system draws from the bottom of the container) but it made a mess. I used a little bit of RTV around the inside of the cap to create a better seal (let it dry on the cap before reinstalling).

I agree with you on the pins for the front calipers, they are a PITA. They should be like the rear caliper with the screw-in pin, one of the reasons that the CP5555 or similar caliper would have been better. I've never had the pin back out though, you can tell when it locks home since the sound and feel changes.

wstar · 05-20-2013, 12:20 PM

Yeah it's possible I didn't get them pushed in all the way, but it certainly seemed like I did at the time.

wstar · 05-20-2013, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

On the 09's the cap on the overflow doesn't seal properly. Not sure if that is 100% required in order to create the proper draw required (since the low pressure from the cooling system draws from the bottom of the container) but it made a mess. I used a little bit of RTV around the inside of the cap to create a better seal (let it dry on the cap before reinstalling).

Yeah on this bit: I've seen the difference looking at a 12's engine bay in person before. They actually have what looks like a real pressure cap on the overflow bottle, and... something else where our pressure cap is. I think.

I wonder if our 09 system can be updated just by replacing the rad cap and the overflow bottle with the newer bits?

ChrisSlicks · 05-20-2013, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Yeah on this bit: I've seen the difference looking at a 12's engine bay in person before. They actually have what looks like a real pressure cap on the overflow bottle, and... something else where our pressure cap is. I think.

I wonder if our 09 system can be updated just by replacing the rad cap and the overflow bottle with the newer bits?

Yes I believe so if you get all the required pieces.

I've seen the differences but when I looked it up I wasn't seeing any new model parts, I know for a fact that the tank is different along with the 2 caps.
214 Radiator, Shroud & Fitting :: Exhaust & Cooling :: Genuine Nissan Parts :: 370Z Parts (Z34) 2009-2013 :: Nissan Parts, NISMO and Nissan Accessories - Courtesyparts.com

wstar · 06-28-2013, 08:47 AM

So I went by a dealership last week to order parts for that and see what happens. I have the caps and overflow tank now, and at least I mostly understand how the upgraded system works.

So in the new system, the plastic tank is actually part of the full-pressure system. The replacement cap (in our current cap location on the water outlet) is just a seal for the upper edge, it doesn't have a spring in it at all, meaning the little line to the "overflow" is full-time full-pressure. The bottle's obviously reinforced to handle it. It has a normal spring pressure cap and the outlet from there is what overflows to the little tube that runs down to ground. There's also a 3rd line on the bottle, coming off the bottom, that's meant to T into the heater line. The bottle still has min/max lines.

So I guess the basic idea here is: the whole system including the plastic bottle runs full pressure, but the bottle has a giant air bubble at the top of it (also at pressure!), and any air in the system ends up there because it's the highest point. When coolant needs to expand or contract, it does so through both the little line from the top of the water outlet to the top of the plastic tank, and the slightly larger line from the bottom of the plastic tank to the heater lines.

With the bottle itself and both new caps (the bottle doesn't come with the pressure cap btw, separate parts), the only thing that's really missing for doing the upgrade is that, on 2012+, there's an extra fork on that hard heater line coming out the side of the engine, specifically to go to the bottom of the plastic tank. It's where you see #22 in this pic (also note #21, which is for the factory oil cooler):

You'll notice that new stubby bit on the heater is facing a certain direction, seems like perhaps so the normal flow of the heater line tends to draw from the tank rather than push liquid into it? I could hook up the system using the (#27) straight bit that went to the throttle bodies before. It's slightly smaller diameter and not angled-out like the other, but it might work. Either that or upgrade that whole heater-pipe section as well, but then I have to deal with capping off the new outlet for the factory oil cooler.

05-16-2013, 02:55 PM	#571 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	No garage, just random paddock parking. I've never even looked into garage spaces at any of the TDE events, I guess I should find out about that someday. I'm excited too, but nervous about so many changes on the car all at once. I couldn't wait for this evening, so I took it out for a stress-test drive over lunch. No leaks, and temp data looks pretty awesome so far. "Normal" street driving - cruising around 2.5Krpm in the mid-day heat, the car would settle at oil/water temps of 180 and 177. I found an empty back-road stretch and gave the car a close-to-track-conditions flogging for about 7 minutes straight and I was still at 200/194. A soon as I backed off the agression, the car cooled back down to its steady-state in a minute or two. Only problem I noted during the test-drive was an oddly-specific transmission issue. In general the transmission is fine, but if I brake in 3rd gear down to fairly low revs (~3K) and then transition right back to hard gas, the transmission lockup slips, the engine revs up freely for half second, and then the trans finally locks up (and by then the engine's way past matching revs and the tires burn a little). I'll try it again this evening and see if I can characterize it better, maybe. My random diagnostic thoughts right now are: 1) That my filling procedure didn't really work for setting the fluid level correctly, and braking down in 3rd at low revs just happens to slosh the too-low fluid in a way that it can't get pressure to lock up 3rd gear when I nail the gas pedal again. I could break this down into two possible filling errors: (a) that with all the air I needed to work out of the lines/system, my fill just wasn't going to be accurate until I really drove the transmission on the street a bit, in which case going back through the final step would fix it, or (b) technically, I don't think the service manual says to stop the engine when doing the final at-temperature fill/bleed. My best judgement was that turning the engine back off was implicit in the instruction to lift the car, etc, but maybe I really do need the engine running to set the fill correctly. 2) That I've damaged some seal/valve/solenoid whatever from track abuse at the last event and this is the first time I've noticed since getting home and then having the car on the lift forever. 3) Could be with the free-er revving engine (no more AC), I've crossed some threshold where I need to up the line pressure a bit more to catch it? I may play with line pressure in general for debugging this later. I'd think if it was just a fill problem, I'd be able to reproduce the same slip condition in 2nd or 4th, which I was unable to do with a few attempts earlier, just 3rd. Could be specific to odd gears though (many internal passages/components are odd/even-specific), and it would be hard to reproduce the same type of condition in 1st or 5th. I really wish I could get on the Nissan Batphone and find out for sure whether the final level check on the transmission was meant to be with the car running. Maybe GTM would know... __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details Last edited by wstar; 05-16-2013 at 02:57 PM.

05-16-2013, 03:34 PM	#572 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	Most likely a combination of 1 a) and b). The auto trans I've done this on required the engine to be running and transmission in N or P when you do the level check via drain plug. If the engine is off too much fluid comes out. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms Last edited by ChrisSlicks; 05-16-2013 at 07:00 PM.

05-16-2013, 03:38 PM	#573 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Ah! It seems so foreign to me to set a fill level while something's running, but I guess this is also the only transmission of this nature I've ever seen. Maybe I'll try that this evening. Thanks for the directional hint __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

05-16-2013, 03:54 PM	#574 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Oh another random note from the test-drive: I don't have the Z1 trans mount on yet, just the engine mounts. You can definitely feel the difference. I wouldn't say it's annoying or adds a huge amount of body vibration to the car, but if you're paying attention you definitely "feel" the engine more through the seat of your pants. I'd say throttle response (as in "reaction time of feeling the engine respond to a sudden change") feels a little snappier with stiffer mounts, but I also deleted the AC compressor at the same time and that's probably helping on that front a little as well. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

05-16-2013, 10:36 PM	#575 (permalink)
Jsolo Track Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: chicago Posts: 783 Drives: '12 G37 6MT Rep Power: 15	I've done drain/fills on several gm trans's. The procedure has always been to check the fluid level with the car running, otherwise the fluid is concentrated not where it should be. I'd try the procedure in the fsm verbatim and see what happens. __________________ G37S Sedan 6MT, Eibach swaybars, Invidia Exhaust, Weaker Clutch Pedal Spring For sale links

05-16-2013, 10:42 PM	#576 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	I'm in the midst of doing so now, thanks guys This is actually the first automatic trans car I've ever owned (and I'm getting old now), so I guess even if all auto trans are filled while running, I'd never have known it. I guess it's karma for second-guessing the service manual, too. My initial check (fill to overflow) with it running at around the right ballpark temp, I ended up adding about 1.5 quarts to get it up from the "engine off" overflow level to the "engine on" overflow level. I have no doubt that's enough to cause problems. It took me a while to swap bottles and whatnot and by then the temp was about 10 degrees past where it should be. So I capped it early while it was still flowing out a bit, and now I'm letting the car cool back off again so that I can do the final overflow level-setting at the right temp. Later tonight I'll go for a midnight test run to Denny's or something and see if it's still slipping in 3rd. Also, I finally got the Z1 trans mount installed earlier while the car was cooling off the first time. Really, really easy to install, even on a stock car with everything attached. You just need a way to get the car up in the air (normal jackstands at a mid-high setting would work), and a bottle jack to hold, not truly lift the rear of the trans itself. The rest is just 8x fasteners to drop the crossmember, drop out the old mount, then reinstall it all, drop the bottle jack, drop the car. I'll see how that feels on my midnight run as well. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details Last edited by wstar; 05-16-2013 at 10:46 PM.

05-16-2013, 11:41 PM	#577 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,217 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684438	sub'd. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

05-17-2013, 01:37 AM	#578 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Operation: Denny's Run was a success. Trans is back to flawless now with the correct fill level (thanks guys!). Cooling data still looks awesome. I had to stay down a gear and keep the revs up around 4K cruising just to keep my oil at 170 now that we're in the cool night air. A few light moments harder on the car brought it to 180 but never past. If I had thought ahead / known, I would've blocked half the front grill with duct tape for the drive. AP/Stillen BBK + CL RC6E is still feeling awesome. I don't think I've yet hit a street-test scenario that will really tell me whether I'm gonna hit any minor ice-mode-like issues with this setup or not. I'm sure I'll find out this weekend at TWS. The trans mount made the drivetrain feel a little more connected to the body again, like the engine mounts. It might make a larger difference throttling on track-out at the limit, but on the street I'd say the change was "noticeable, but minimal". The engine mount change was more noticeable than the trans. This is the opposite of Spohn's impression of the two, but the difference is likely his 6MT setup versus my 7AT. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

05-20-2013, 11:45 AM	#579 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	So I had a fun weekend at TWS. There were a number of minor issues with me and the car, and it certainly wasn't my best/fastest weekend, but I learned a lot. This weekend was the rare Clockwise direction there, totally new to me. The CCW direction I ran last time out there was much more of a "feeling" track where you could just traction-sense your way through it and rock around there in no time. This CW direction it seems a bit more technical and unforgiving, but it's still really fun to learn. I left my USB stick at home and didn't realize it until I was ready to hit the Record button for the first session of the weekend. I picked one up Sat night locally and only got session data for Sunday. Had one true spin Saturday and an off-track excursion Sunday. Neither were particularly brutal, but I had to hop some tall kerbing getting back on the track from my Saturday spin, and I managed to bang up my FI mufflers a bit on the way over. Tires / Camber My tires are really hating my lack of camber still. They were already fairly worn down at the outsides when I started this weekend, and I finished them off this weekend. They could limp through another weak session or two, but no way I'm starting another whole weekend on them. It made the weekend interesting, because while I was learning the track better with every session, my front tire grip was also getting worse with each session. In the net, I think I peaked on the second session of the weekend and my times just went downhill from there. On that second session I was probably running in the top 10% of the pack, and by the end of Sunday at least half the group was outpacing me while I adjusted down to the tires. About halfway through the weekend, I adjusted my rear sway and all 4 dampers to intentionally make the rear end slipperier (+1 stiff on rear sway, +1 stiff on rear damper, -2 stiff on front dampers), which helped balance the car back out to the front tires' pace somewhat. I didn't really like the very-understeery feel I was getting before that. Really need adjustable front camber. I'd hate to tear up yet another set of fronts this way. Transmission No trans issues all weekend. Apparently the Motul Multi-ATF fluid works fine. If it didn't I'm sure the stress of the weekend would've made it apparent. The upsized cooler kept fluid temps in check and I never got into any hot/laggy shifts. Brakes Overall I was really impressed with the new brake setup (recap: CL RC6E front and rear, APRacing/Stillen BBK). I was peaking around 0.9g in the hardest braking zones without hitting any hint of ice-mode or engaging ABS. Zero issues with deposits/judder/etc. Modulation was even easier than the previous setup (CL pads + Stock calipers), which was already nice due to those CL pads. My only minor complaint here is the design of the pad pins on those front calipers (CP7040 I think they are?). They only lock in via some dinky little snap rings. They're a pain in the * to drive the lock ring into place (tapping in from the inside of the car), and they just don't hold very well even when they're pushed in correctly. I had both pins on the right front back out of the caliper on-track for me. They only backed out about half an inch, the outside pad moved a little out of position, and then everything kinda seized up in that configuration so the pin couldn't fall all the way out. I didn't even notice a feel change on track, but DR_ spotted it in the paddock afterwards. Needs a better retention solution. Just letting the pins stick out the other side to install cotter pins like the stock caliper would probably fix it... Cooling Changes The new cooling config (25/9 oil, 19/6 trans, CSF rad w/o condenser, heater bypassed w/ 3/4" silicone, 80/20 mix + MoCool) definitely works as a configuration. My worst-case peaks all weekend were 225 oil and 221 water. More typical for most of the session time was about 220 and 216. However, I still have a leak in the coolant system somewhere The behavior over the weekend was that coming into the paddock after a run the overflow bottle would be fairly full of hot coolant, but after the car cooled down hardly any of it went back into the system. Then I'd open the rad cap and find a fairly large pocket of air in the system. Refilling that manually from the excess in the overflow tank got things back to a sane starting point for the next session, so I did that all weekend. We're talking somewhere between 1-2 quarts of fluid displaced out to the tank and not recovering per session. Given that my water temps were reasonable during the session, I don't think the air bubble appeared until the system cools down and de-pressurizes, but it's drawing air from some minor leak at that time instead of drawing back fluid from the overflow. Preliminary diagnosis at the track (trying cold starts with hand-guestimate pressure-checking, smell, etc), it seems unlikely to be a combustion->water head gasket leak. There's no contamination to indicate oil<->water leak from the head gasket or water pump. Most likely I either still have a pinhole leak in the external hose connections and piping somewhere (perhaps a hose clamp that doesn't leak outwards at pressure, but does draw air back in during de-pressure?), or I have a head gasket leak at the edge from coolant to the outside world. I'm going to play with a pressure-test rig tomorrow and diagnose it. Power stuff** The car definitely felt snappier on the the throttle all around. Engine/trans mounts, lack of AC compressor, and lower operating temps all contributed to that I'm sure. Taking a little weight out of the engine bay couldn't have hurt either. Hopefully I get time to gut the interior ac/heat stuff soon as well, and then start in on the cage/harness stuff. Youtube of my fastest recorded lap at 2:10, which wasn't all that fast compared to what I should've been able to work up to, IMHO. I probably had a better time earlier in the weekend while I lacked a USB stick: __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details Last edited by wstar; 05-20-2013 at 12:04 PM.

05-20-2013, 12:01 PM	#580 (permalink)
SPOHN A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Covington, GA Age: 46 Posts: 14,844 Drives: Waiting on next Z Rep Power: 221	Yea those AP caliber pins suck. But I can live with it. __________________

05-20-2013, 12:02 PM	#581 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	On the 09's the cap on the overflow doesn't seal properly. Not sure if that is 100% required in order to create the proper draw required (since the low pressure from the cooling system draws from the bottom of the container) but it made a mess. I used a little bit of RTV around the inside of the cap to create a better seal (let it dry on the cap before reinstalling). I agree with you on the pins for the front calipers, they are a PITA. They should be like the rear caliper with the screw-in pin, one of the reasons that the CP5555 or similar caliper would have been better. I've never had the pin back out though, you can tell when it locks home since the sound and feel changes. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms

05-20-2013, 12:20 PM	#582 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Yeah it's possible I didn't get them pushed in all the way, but it certainly seemed like I did at the time. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

06-28-2013, 08:47 AM	#585 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	So I went by a dealership last week to order parts for that and see what happens. I have the caps and overflow tank now, and at least I mostly understand how the upgraded system works. So in the new system, the plastic tank is actually part of the full-pressure system. The replacement cap (in our current cap location on the water outlet) is just a seal for the upper edge, it doesn't have a spring in it at all, meaning the little line to the "overflow" is full-time full-pressure. The bottle's obviously reinforced to handle it. It has a normal spring pressure cap and the outlet from there is what overflows to the little tube that runs down to ground. There's also a 3rd line on the bottle, coming off the bottom, that's meant to T into the heater line. The bottle still has min/max lines. So I guess the basic idea here is: the whole system including the plastic bottle runs full pressure, but the bottle has a giant air bubble at the top of it (also at pressure!), and any air in the system ends up there because it's the highest point. When coolant needs to expand or contract, it does so through both the little line from the top of the water outlet to the top of the plastic tank, and the slightly larger line from the bottom of the plastic tank to the heater lines. With the bottle itself and both new caps (the bottle doesn't come with the pressure cap btw, separate parts), the only thing that's really missing for doing the upgrade is that, on 2012+, there's an extra fork on that hard heater line coming out the side of the engine, specifically to go to the bottom of the plastic tank. It's where you see #22 in this pic (also note #21, which is for the factory oil cooler): You'll notice that new stubby bit on the heater is facing a certain direction, seems like perhaps so the normal flow of the heater line tends to draw from the tank rather than push liquid into it? I could hook up the system using the (#27) straight bit that went to the throttle bodies before. It's slightly smaller diameter and not angled-out like the other, but it might work. Either that or upgrade that whole heater-pipe section as well, but then I have to deal with capping off the new outlet for the factory oil cooler. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

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