wstar's Journal

SPOHN · 04-08-2012, 08:31 AM

I didn't have any issues with the dust shield. But you and I run totally different rotor setups. I didn't see a point in the shims either so I tossed them.

The ducting wasn't bad. I ran it at full lock then tucked it in with the ties. I ended up cutting the slack out at the front flanges insted so I could manipulate the hoses in the wheel well until all was complete. But here again I run a 19x9.5 on 265 tire. But stil have lots of clearence.

I flirted with the idea of making a cut in the fender well but decided against. Good thing I could always still do it. It is a tight fit the way Stillen does it but it will be fine being they did all the testing in this location and got the claimed results.

wstar · 04-08-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOHN

I didn't have any issues with the dust shield. But you and I run totally different rotor setups. I didn't see a point in the shims either so I tossed them.

Well, my issue wasn't rotor related. Now I wish I took pics

. But I'm referring to the curled up "edges" on the back (away from the rotor) side of the metal outcropping that holds the flange, hitting the fixed (relative to it) suspension member behind it.

Quote:

The ducting wasn't bad. I ran it at full lock then tucked it in with the ties. I ended up cutting the slack out at the front flanges insted so I could manipulate the hoses in the wheel well until all was complete. But here again I run a 19x9.5 on 265 tire. But stil have lots of clearence.

Yeah I did my cutting at the front as well, way easier. Did you route as their pics show (i.e. the final tie on the lower suspension around way out to the back)? That was what caused the most problems for me. There didn't seem to be any way to tie down out there and have both enough slack for the stretch direction, and not have it crumple up right into the side of the tire in the opposite lock direction. Your tires aren't that much skinnier than mine, either. Did you check the "short" steering direction not rubbing?

Quote:

I flirted with the idea of making a cut in the fender well but decided against. Good thing I could always still do it. It is a tight fit the way Stillen does it but it will be fine being they did all the testing in this location and got the claimed results.

Yeah I don't get this at all. On the passenger side, I could've done a tight fit with just Stillen's recommendation (removing that small plastic square) and doing some extra bends. But on the driver's side, even when you remove the little plastic square in the wheel well, that only solves half the problem. There was no other hole on the other side (more towards the bumper) to reach that area in the first place, without cutting the vertical plastic piece that has the little built in round hole in it. Did you just force the hose to work with that hole? Seemed small for it to me, but it was moot since I have cooler lines running through there already, and both certainly can't fit.

SPOHN · 04-08-2012, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Yeah I did my cutting at the front as well, way easier. Did you route as their pics show (i.e. the final tie on the lower suspension around way out to the back)? That was what caused the most problems for me. There didn't seem to be any way to tie down out there and have both enough slack for the stretch direction, and not have it crumple up right into the side of the tire in the opposite lock direction. Your tires aren't that much skinnier than mine, either. Did you check the "short" steering direction not rubbing?

I see what your saying. It is funny and this is where every inch matters. After full lock I got a tad bit more and count on the duct to flex as it should to work. Here's some pics.

This is the full lock and I installed the tie around the lower coilover bracket.

Here's when wheel is straight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Yeah I don't get this at all. On the passenger side, I could've done a tight fit with just Stillen's recommendation (removing that small plastic square) and doing some extra bends. But on the driver's side, even when you remove the little plastic square in the wheel well, that only solves half the problem. There was no other hole on the other side (more towards the bumper) to reach that area in the first place, without cutting the vertical plastic piece that has the little built in round hole in it. Did you just force the hose to work with that hole? Seemed small for it to me, but it was moot since I have cooler lines running through there already, and both certainly can't fit.

It is very tight and you have to use the push pull technique to get threw as you see above. Below is a pic of passenger side.

wstar · 04-08-2012, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOHN

After full lock I got a tad bit more and count on the duct to flex as it should to work. Here's some pics.

Ah, I see what made that work for you that I didn't do: that last tie going around near the base of the shock absorber. Mine would "bulge" out in that area when turned the other way (compressed instead of stretched), rubbing into the wheel. I solved it a different way, we'll see how my routing holds up

As soon as I get my parts to finish up my rotor business I'll be back in the wheel wells again and get some photos.

Quote:

It is very tight and you have to use the push pull technique to get threw as you see above. Below is a pic of passenger side.

Yeah I get that on the passenger side, I routed it like that once before I just decided to cut things and go straight. But the driver's side, I don't even see a hole to squish through. Unless you're talking about sending the pipe up very high (over some other plastic bits, several inches "up" out of its natural line).

wstar · 04-16-2012, 02:02 PM

Over the weekend, I de-installed the Relentless 2-piece brake rotor kit at all four corners. Switched to Z1 motorsports relatively cheap, good quality 1-piece slotted OEM replacements: Akebono 370Z/G37 Sport Package Performance Rotors.

I don't want to get into a big vendor bash side-debate here. Let's just say the scientific data from my end is inconclusive on whether any quality problems in the RA rotors themselves contributed to my issues. I don't think RA has sold enough 370Z rotors in total for anyone to make any statistical argument about the quality level, either, so it's a crapshoot from that perspective. Let's just say in the end the total package of their business model, product, and pricing isn't matching up well with my needs. A good deal of that has to do with their turnaround time on shipping out parts, too.

I'm not planning to re-install the RA rotors. If someone else wants to buy the re-usable aluminum hats and rear caliper upgrade hardware to try out the system themselves, they could buy a fresh set of RA's outer rings to go with them. The fronts are 10 lbs unsprung/rotating weight lighter per rotor than OEM equivalents, so there is that going for them. Otherwise I'll see if RA wants to buy them back as inventory (no flaws with those bits for sure), but that seems unlikely, or just junk them and write off the cost as a lesson learned.

In any case, I've re-bedded on the new Z1 rotors, and everything's much healthier now. I re-used the XP8's I already had for rear pads since they have tons of life on them and the rear RA rings were still in good shape when I took them off. In the front I was concerned the pads were degraded from spending a couple months mating with the front RA rings, and I wanted to upgrade heat ranges anyways, so that's bedded with a fresh set of XP10s. I might clean up and resurface the takeoff front XP8's since they have a lot of thickness left, and keep them as backup front pads to take to the track with me.

XP10+XP8 feels pretty good, the front bite's not as scary as I was worried it would be, it's fine with street tires and still easy to modulate. 6 days to back on the track again at MSR Houston. Need to re-bleed again after a couple more days of working the system out, and get an oil change in, and I'm good to go.

Being paranoid about wasting any further track weekends on unexpected brake issues, I was extremely analytical and careful with the new rotor installations. I took dial-gauge runout reading on all 4 rotors and thickness variation data, etc, and did some indexing of the mounting rotation offset to minimize the runout. Everything's way way below OEM spec limits. My worst corner is at .004" runout prior to bedding measured all the way out at the edge, and even that I think was reduced slightly with the wheel torqued on top (as opposed to lightly torquing lugnuts onto the brake rotor itself when measuring). The OEM spec limit is .014" a bit in from the edge (center of pad swept area, basically). So, measurably, these are good rotors in manufacturing quality terms.

Jsolo · 09-01-2012, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Being paranoid about wasting any further track weekends on unexpected brake issues, I was extremely analytical and careful with the new rotor installations. I took dial-gauge runout reading on all 4 rotors and thickness variation data, etc, and did some indexing of the mounting rotation offset to minimize the runout. Everything's way way below OEM spec limits. My worst corner is at .004" runout prior to bedding measured all the way out at the edge, and even that I think was reduced slightly with the wheel torqued on top (as opposed to lightly torquing lugnuts onto the brake rotor itself when measuring). The OEM spec limit is .014" a bit in from the edge (center of pad swept area, basically). So, measurably, these are good rotors in manufacturing quality terms.

Sorry to bump up an old thread, but can you confirm the spec above? According to the FSM for the G (which uses the same 4 pot brakes as the Z), the spec is .035mm or .0014" - that's 14 ten thousandths of an inch, not 14 thousandths.

The FSM does show a THICKNESS variation of .015mm, so maybe that's where you got the # from?

Anyhow, .0014" is pretty damn small, barely the thickness of that thermal receipt paper.

Equinox · 04-16-2012, 08:04 PM

Glad to see you back in the confidence zone with your set up. Enjoy those track days!

SPOHN · 04-16-2012, 08:13 PM

Good deal wstar. I also run on the same Z1 rotors with 4 track days and several thousand miles of DD. Been holding up great for me. I also just installed the XP 10's on the front. Need to bed them in this weekend. Glad to hear the bite isn't crazy bad.

Once those rotors wear I have some brand new Stillen J hook rotors that someone sold to me for $200. What a deal. I got lucky. He actually won them at Z Nationals and sold them to me.

Equinox · 04-18-2012, 12:55 AM

Oh gawd I forgot about how awesome J hook is as a concept. I need some for my 911 o.o

wstar · 04-24-2012, 12:59 AM

Just wrapped up a fun weekend at MSR Houston. Brakes were a non-issue functionally, and the new front ducts from Stillen worked out well.

As for the new Z1 rotors: mostly, they bedded and operated flawlessly. One of my rears, however, had some visible heat cracks in it starting from right after my first session. They were pretty shallow and not causing any big surface effects, and I didn't feel any braking problems from it. Over the course of the remaining sessions the crack landscape on that rotor evolved: wear would erase a few, expand a few more, then erase those, etc.

I'll have to inspect super-close tomorrow, but probably most of the cracks are gone now, I don't think any were very deep. I suspect the cause is that the cross-hatch pattern (that they lightly etch into the surface to help initial bedding) was accidentally cut a bit too deep on this one rotor, as it took forever to wipe out those cross-hatches on just this one rotor as well. The matching rear rotor on the other side killed its cross-hatch pattern much faster and never developed any visible cracks.

Still pretty happy with them though, I think this was just a one-off QC issue, and the price is awesome.

I got to do a few solo sessions this weekend. I'm not "solo certified" with this group yet, but I guess they're giving me a few test sessions to see how I'm doing on my own, and I did fine. All in all, I think it was a really good weekend skills-development-wise. My traffic management and general "awareness" downtrack and to the corner workers is getting better, finally getting myself to lift my head up a lot more. Starting to get a much better feel for the edge of traction, and getting better at car control. My lap times were "meh" most of the weekend, because I trying to focus on problem areas and taking it easy in others.

Still having psych issues with fear management getting the better of my lines and throttle input in places, especially The Launch (the big hill in the track you'll see in the vid). I know in my head the right way to go over that is to be on full throttle before, during, and after it, but convincing my gut that it won't lead to a nasty off-track excursion is hard. I ended up holding back on a weak/stable throttle and easing through it every damn time most of the weekend. Finally got over it at full throttle on my last session, and wished I had done it sooner

.

Anyways, I only put a couple laps up on Youtube. These are from a solo session back on the first day. Lots of mistakes to focus on for next time

wstar · 05-02-2012, 03:44 PM

A few new pics from this past track weekend. This is a decent one of the car:

And this is my favorite from the weekend. If you look closely, I just passed a ZR1 Corvette (because he spun out not far in front of me, so it was the only chance I got all weekend :P)

Huck · 05-08-2012, 11:39 PM

^^ these look great! and I liked the video too. I would love to track my car, but I don't have the money needed to be competitive like I would be, and I'm like 2 hours from the nearest track, so I guess I'm stuck with the 1/4 mile, huh? Keep at it!

wstar · 05-09-2012, 12:26 AM

It does get a little expensive. I'm not made of money either though, it's just all about priorities. Sell a kidney, get another track weekend paid for, that kind of thing

sixpax · 05-12-2012, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

It does get a little expensive. I'm not made of money either though, it's just all about priorities. Sell a kidney, get another track weekend paid for, that kind of thing

...LOL. Funny how that works. I only did one Hyperdrive (similar to a single HPDE-1 session) and I am already looking around for what I can sell, working a little OT which I have not done in 10 years, anything to get some extra cash to keep the wife happy and make the car better so I can go back. At least I know the "addiction" part seems to be fairly common.

I looked into the kidney thing, would only cover 1 weekend so I think I will keep it for now.

Nice video and pics !

Huck · 05-12-2012, 12:35 AM

Damn it, I'm fresh out of kidneys, and my body can make blood and semen to be sold only so quickly. What else can I do??

Sent from my iPizzle using magic and new fangled science stuff

04-08-2012, 08:31 AM	#1 (permalink)
SPOHN A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Covington, GA Age: 46 Posts: 14,844 Drives: Waiting on next Z Rep Power: 222	I didn't have any issues with the dust shield. But you and I run totally different rotor setups. I didn't see a point in the shims either so I tossed them. The ducting wasn't bad. I ran it at full lock then tucked it in with the ties. I ended up cutting the slack out at the front flanges insted so I could manipulate the hoses in the wheel well until all was complete. But here again I run a 19x9.5 on 265 tire. But stil have lots of clearence. I flirted with the idea of making a cut in the fender well but decided against. Good thing I could always still do it. It is a tight fit the way Stillen does it but it will be fine being they did all the testing in this location and got the claimed results. __________________

04-16-2012, 02:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Over the weekend, I de-installed the Relentless 2-piece brake rotor kit at all four corners. Switched to Z1 motorsports relatively cheap, good quality 1-piece slotted OEM replacements: Akebono 370Z/G37 Sport Package Performance Rotors. I don't want to get into a big vendor bash side-debate here. Let's just say the scientific data from my end is inconclusive on whether any quality problems in the RA rotors themselves contributed to my issues. I don't think RA has sold enough 370Z rotors in total for anyone to make any statistical argument about the quality level, either, so it's a crapshoot from that perspective. Let's just say in the end the total package of their business model, product, and pricing isn't matching up well with my needs. A good deal of that has to do with their turnaround time on shipping out parts, too. I'm not planning to re-install the RA rotors. If someone else wants to buy the re-usable aluminum hats and rear caliper upgrade hardware to try out the system themselves, they could buy a fresh set of RA's outer rings to go with them. The fronts are 10 lbs unsprung/rotating weight lighter per rotor than OEM equivalents, so there is that going for them. Otherwise I'll see if RA wants to buy them back as inventory (no flaws with those bits for sure), but that seems unlikely, or just junk them and write off the cost as a lesson learned. In any case, I've re-bedded on the new Z1 rotors, and everything's much healthier now. I re-used the XP8's I already had for rear pads since they have tons of life on them and the rear RA rings were still in good shape when I took them off. In the front I was concerned the pads were degraded from spending a couple months mating with the front RA rings, and I wanted to upgrade heat ranges anyways, so that's bedded with a fresh set of XP10s. I might clean up and resurface the takeoff front XP8's since they have a lot of thickness left, and keep them as backup front pads to take to the track with me. XP10+XP8 feels pretty good, the front bite's not as scary as I was worried it would be, it's fine with street tires and still easy to modulate. 6 days to back on the track again at MSR Houston. Need to re-bleed again after a couple more days of working the system out, and get an oil change in, and I'm good to go. Being paranoid about wasting any further track weekends on unexpected brake issues, I was extremely analytical and careful with the new rotor installations. I took dial-gauge runout reading on all 4 rotors and thickness variation data, etc, and did some indexing of the mounting rotation offset to minimize the runout. Everything's way way below OEM spec limits. My worst corner is at .004" runout prior to bedding measured all the way out at the edge, and even that I think was reduced slightly with the wheel torqued on top (as opposed to lightly torquing lugnuts onto the brake rotor itself when measuring). The OEM spec limit is .014" a bit in from the edge (center of pad swept area, basically). So, measurably, these are good rotors in manufacturing quality terms. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details Last edited by wstar; 04-16-2012 at 02:20 PM.

04-16-2012, 08:04 PM	#7 (permalink)
Equinox Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Beaumont, TX Posts: 685 Drives: 06 Porsche Carrera S Rep Power: 18	Glad to see you back in the confidence zone with your set up. Enjoy those track days! __________________ Check out my Albums '13 Subaru WRX STi \| '06 Porsche 911 Carrera S (SOLD) \| '96 Mazda RX-7 6.0L V8 RHD (SOLD) \| '09 Nissan Nismo #0058 (SOLD)

04-16-2012, 08:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
SPOHN A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Covington, GA Age: 46 Posts: 14,844 Drives: Waiting on next Z Rep Power: 222	Good deal wstar. I also run on the same Z1 rotors with 4 track days and several thousand miles of DD. Been holding up great for me. I also just installed the XP 10's on the front. Need to bed them in this weekend. Glad to hear the bite isn't crazy bad. Once those rotors wear I have some brand new Stillen J hook rotors that someone sold to me for $200. What a deal. I got lucky. He actually won them at Z Nationals and sold them to me. __________________

04-18-2012, 12:55 AM	#9 (permalink)
Equinox Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Beaumont, TX Posts: 685 Drives: 06 Porsche Carrera S Rep Power: 18	Oh gawd I forgot about how awesome J hook is as a concept. I need some for my 911 o.o __________________ Check out my Albums '13 Subaru WRX STi \| '06 Porsche 911 Carrera S (SOLD) \| '96 Mazda RX-7 6.0L V8 RHD (SOLD) \| '09 Nissan Nismo #0058 (SOLD)

04-24-2012, 12:59 AM	#10 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Just wrapped up a fun weekend at MSR Houston. Brakes were a non-issue functionally, and the new front ducts from Stillen worked out well. As for the new Z1 rotors: mostly, they bedded and operated flawlessly. One of my rears, however, had some visible heat cracks in it starting from right after my first session. They were pretty shallow and not causing any big surface effects, and I didn't feel any braking problems from it. Over the course of the remaining sessions the crack landscape on that rotor evolved: wear would erase a few, expand a few more, then erase those, etc. I'll have to inspect super-close tomorrow, but probably most of the cracks are gone now, I don't think any were very deep. I suspect the cause is that the cross-hatch pattern (that they lightly etch into the surface to help initial bedding) was accidentally cut a bit too deep on this one rotor, as it took forever to wipe out those cross-hatches on just this one rotor as well. The matching rear rotor on the other side killed its cross-hatch pattern much faster and never developed any visible cracks. Still pretty happy with them though, I think this was just a one-off QC issue, and the price is awesome. I got to do a few solo sessions this weekend. I'm not "solo certified" with this group yet, but I guess they're giving me a few test sessions to see how I'm doing on my own, and I did fine. All in all, I think it was a really good weekend skills-development-wise. My traffic management and general "awareness" downtrack and to the corner workers is getting better, finally getting myself to lift my head up a lot more. Starting to get a much better feel for the edge of traction, and getting better at car control. My lap times were "meh" most of the weekend, because I trying to focus on problem areas and taking it easy in others. Still having psych issues with fear management getting the better of my lines and throttle input in places, especially The Launch (the big hill in the track you'll see in the vid). I know in my head the right way to go over that is to be on full throttle before, during, and after it, but convincing my gut that it won't lead to a nasty off-track excursion is hard. I ended up holding back on a weak/stable throttle and easing through it every damn time most of the weekend. Finally got over it at full throttle on my last session, and wished I had done it sooner . Anyways, I only put a couple laps up on Youtube. These are from a solo session back on the first day. Lots of mistakes to focus on for next time __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

05-02-2012, 03:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	A few new pics from this past track weekend. This is a decent one of the car: And this is my favorite from the weekend. If you look closely, I just passed a ZR1 Corvette (because he spun out not far in front of me, so it was the only chance I got all weekend :P) __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

05-08-2012, 11:39 PM	#12 (permalink)
Huck A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Cocoa, Florida Age: 42 Posts: 5,075 Drives: Pantydropper machine Rep Power: 34	^^ these look great! and I liked the video too. I would love to track my car, but I don't have the money needed to be competitive like I would be, and I'm like 2 hours from the nearest track, so I guess I'm stuck with the 1/4 mile, huh? Keep at it! __________________ VLEDS \| Evo-R \| Moddiction \| CF Hood Struts \| F.I. CF CBE & LTH \| Stillen CAI \| NST Pulleys \| UpRev \| Z1 \| M7 \| Status \| Forgestar \| PSS \| Whiteline \| SPL \| SPC \| Kenwood \| Zenclosure \| Kicker \| Alpine Type R

05-09-2012, 12:26 AM	#13 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	It does get a little expensive. I'm not made of money either though, it's just all about priorities. Sell a kidney, get another track weekend paid for, that kind of thing __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

05-12-2012, 12:35 AM	#15 (permalink)
Huck A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Cocoa, Florida Age: 42 Posts: 5,075 Drives: Pantydropper machine Rep Power: 34	Damn it, I'm fresh out of kidneys, and my body can make blood and semen to be sold only so quickly. What else can I do?? Sent from my iPizzle using magic and new fangled science stuff __________________ VLEDS \| Evo-R \| Moddiction \| CF Hood Struts \| F.I. CF CBE & LTH \| Stillen CAI \| NST Pulleys \| UpRev \| Z1 \| M7 \| Status \| Forgestar \| PSS \| Whiteline \| SPL \| SPC \| Kenwood \| Zenclosure \| Kicker \| Alpine Type R

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