TravisJB Journal

ChrisSlicks · 02-15-2012, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

Wiring gurus (do we have any?)-

I'm putting an LED lighting system on my truck bed and running power through a relay and switch mounted in the cab... I noticed that when I turn power on to the lights I get a voltage spike on the low current 12v that includes a toggle switch. This is the same 12v that sends a remote on signal to my stereo amp (the blue wire)... it causes a loud crackle over the speakers, which I'm guessing is a voltage spike to the amp. In any event, I read that you can fix this by wiring in a diode across the relay control (85/86 terminals)... I bought a bunch of 1amp and 3amp diodes. How do I install those? There is a red end and a white end on the diodes, which goes to which terminal on the relay? Help a brother out! thanks

So your using the low current 12V signal to energize the relay via the switch? If that is the case then yes, the diode might help, but if the diode is just electrically noisy then it may not be a cure all. You could use unregulated battery voltage to feed the relay instead.

The white stripe on the diode indicates the cathode end (negative), I've never heard of a red stripe but they just might be trying to be helpful to mark the other end as positive. Wire the diode following the existing polarity.

wstar · 02-15-2012, 10:36 AM

The diode idea might work. Depending on the nature of the little spike, a small capacitor across the switch pins might help as well (e.g. a small <1uF non-dielectric). I'd be willing to bet it's the toggle switch rather than relay that's causing the noise, but you could try doing the capacitor thing across one or both.

wstar · 02-15-2012, 10:49 AM

The Laminova unit sounds like a really interesting alternative to an air cooler, if it performs as described. Better warmup, shorter hoses, less excess oil weight. Is the unit itself lighter than a 25-row air cooler? Regardless, as you've said you can mount the weight centered lower.

So water-routing-wise you just put it inline with the lower radiator hose between the radiator's output and the thermostat/pump inlet on the engine? And then a non-thermostatic sandwich plate for the oil?

I'm wondering whether the stock radiator can handle this all by itself though, or if an upgraded radiator is needed to go Laminova and ditch the air cooler.

travisjb · 02-15-2012, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

So water-routing-wise you just put it inline with the lower radiator hose between the radiator's output and the thermostat/pump inlet on the engine? And then a non-thermostatic sandwich plate for the oil?

Yes and yes. Laminova recommends routing 100% of the water flow through the unit, although their documentation says if necessary you can also run a branch... the pressure drop is supposed to be negligible, so guessing a branch would be fine. In my case, it is 100%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

I'm wondering whether the stock radiator can handle this all by itself though, or if an upgraded radiator is needed to go Laminova and ditch the air cooler.

I've heard people speculate that the OEM unit is not sufficient... but I think that's based upon general car knowledge, not actual data on the 370z radiator/condenser. We would need to get the thermal specs on this radiator to know for sure... or just test it.

travisjb · 02-15-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

So your using the low current 12V signal to energize the relay via the switch? If that is the case then yes, the diode might help, but if the diode is just electrically noisy then it may not be a cure all. You could use unregulated battery voltage to feed the relay instead.

The white stripe on the diode indicates the cathode end (negative), I've never heard of a red stripe but they just might be trying to be helpful to mark the other end as positive. Wire the diode following the existing polarity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

The diode idea might work. Depending on the nature of the little spike, a small capacitor across the switch pins might help as well (e.g. a small <1uF non-dielectric). I'd be willing to bet it's the toggle switch rather than relay that's causing the noise, but you could try doing the capacitor thing across one or both.

Thanks guys! I'll give this a shot today and report back. Will try diode's first since I have those on hand. Does it matter 1amp or 3amp diodes? Guessing 1amp is sufficient for a simple control switch.

ChrisSlicks · 02-15-2012, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

Thanks guys! I'll give this a shot today and report back. Will try diode's first since I have those on hand. Does it matter 1amp or 3amp diodes? Guessing 1amp is sufficient for a simple control switch.

If you're using it as a blocking diode so there will be little current flow (on the switch side of the relay), the 1A should be fine.

I would be wiring it in series with the positive terminal, but from the description it sounds like you plan on using it as a shunt? I'm not sure if that would work, would probably blow a fuse ...

MightyBobo · 02-15-2012, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

Terrific, Bobo! White it shall be. I knew I could count on you.

Let me guess, you googled "red wire or white wire" after drinking a 6 pack???

Not even, as soon as I saw, "red or white" - I immediately thought of that scene from Ace Ventura haha.

travisjb · 02-15-2012, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

If you're using it as a blocking diode so there will be little current flow (on the switch side of the relay), the 1A should be fine.

I would be wiring it in series with the positive terminal, but from the description it sounds like you plan on using it as a shunt? I'm not sure if that would work, would probably blow a fuse ...

Stuff online said to wire it across the positive negative, in much the same way that a relay with built in diode would do... but I'll try wiring to just the positive side as cut in first - makes sense that would work.

Thanks! You know your ****

ChrisSlicks · 02-15-2012, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

Stuff online said to wire it across the positive negative, in much the same way that a relay with built in diode would do... but I'll try wiring to just the positive side as cut in first - makes sense that would work.

Thanks! You know your ****

Okay I get it now, it is being used as a snub. In that case wire the diode across the positive/negative terminals of the relay with "reverse" polarity. This will allow the induced current to dissipate more quickly and should eliminate the voltage spike when turning off the lights "off". But you said the problem was when you were turning the lights "on" not "off"?

travisjb · 02-15-2012, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

Okay I get it now, it is being used as a snub. In that case wire the diode across the positive/negative terminals of the relay with "reverse" polarity. This will allow the induced current to dissipate more quickly and should eliminate the voltage spike when turning off the lights "off". But you said the problem was when you were turning the lights "on" not "off"?

Going off memory here - was only when I turned them on... this little project just pushed to tomorrow... more later

travisjb · 02-16-2012, 05:08 PM

Diode works! used 1amp across 85/86 relay terminals and that did the trick... thanks again!

Car is at Z Fever Racing in Tampa... more to come

travisjb · 02-22-2012, 01:49 PM

Back to the engine...

This is all preliminary, I will have more certain info and pictures to post later in the week

- spun bearings on #4 crank position
- this #4 position usually indicates an oiling problem, as this is the first to not receive oil when insufficient oil flow occurs
- unclear yet if lower block is salvageable / how much damage
- heads are unusual situation... the fasteners involved with VVEL have tool marks on them indicating that they have been wrenched on... Nissan strongly advises to never adjust these as it may be catastrophic

... more to come

wstar · 02-22-2012, 05:12 PM

Sounds... interesting

Keep us posted.

Slight tangent: When you talk about insufficient "flow", would this be obvious on an oil pressure gauge as insufficient pressure, assuming there were no blocked passageways from some kind of foreign debris? Or is there a way to have ok pressure and no blocked passageways and still end up with insufficient "flow" to oil a bearing correctly?

Red__Zed · 02-22-2012, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

Back to the engine...

This is all preliminary, I will have more certain info and pictures to post later in the week

- spun bearings on #4 crank position
- this #4 position usually indicates an oiling problem, as this is the first to not receive oil when insufficient oil flow occurs
- unclear yet if lower block is salvageable / how much damage
- heads are unusual situation... the fasteners involved with VVEL have tool marks on them indicating that they have been wrenched on... Nissan strongly advises to never adjust these as it may be catastrophic

... more to come

hm, interesting.

Was it an oil flow issue then? Not starvation?

So VVEL was adjusted then?

Zeto · 02-22-2012, 07:17 PM

If the VVEL WAS adjusted, who did it?

02-15-2012, 10:36 AM	#1592 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	The diode idea might work. Depending on the nature of the little spike, a small capacitor across the switch pins might help as well (e.g. a small <1uF non-dielectric). I'd be willing to bet it's the toggle switch rather than relay that's causing the noise, but you could try doing the capacitor thing across one or both. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

02-15-2012, 10:49 AM	#1593 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	The Laminova unit sounds like a really interesting alternative to an air cooler, if it performs as described. Better warmup, shorter hoses, less excess oil weight. Is the unit itself lighter than a 25-row air cooler? Regardless, as you've said you can mount the weight centered lower. So water-routing-wise you just put it inline with the lower radiator hose between the radiator's output and the thermostat/pump inlet on the engine? And then a non-thermostatic sandwich plate for the oil? I'm wondering whether the stock radiator can handle this all by itself though, or if an upgraded radiator is needed to go Laminova and ditch the air cooler. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

02-16-2012, 05:08 PM	#1601 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	Diode works! used 1amp across 85/86 relay terminals and that did the trick... thanks again! Car is at Z Fever Racing in Tampa... more to come __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

02-22-2012, 01:49 PM	#1602 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	Back to the engine... This is all preliminary, I will have more certain info and pictures to post later in the week - spun bearings on #4 crank position - this #4 position usually indicates an oiling problem, as this is the first to not receive oil when insufficient oil flow occurs - unclear yet if lower block is salvageable / how much damage - heads are unusual situation... the fasteners involved with VVEL have tool marks on them indicating that they have been wrenched on... Nissan strongly advises to never adjust these as it may be catastrophic ... more to come __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

02-22-2012, 05:12 PM	#1603 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Sounds... interesting Keep us posted. Slight tangent: When you talk about insufficient "flow", would this be obvious on an oil pressure gauge as insufficient pressure, assuming there were no blocked passageways from some kind of foreign debris? Or is there a way to have ok pressure and no blocked passageways and still end up with insufficient "flow" to oil a bearing correctly? __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

02-22-2012, 07:17 PM	#1605 (permalink)
Zeto Track Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: North NJ Age: 40 Posts: 766 Drives: 09 Pearl White 370Z Rep Power: 267	If the VVEL WAS adjusted, who did it?

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