TravisJB Journal

ChrisSlicks · 09-07-2011, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

... there's always time spent idling before / after sessions... agree, one fan would suffice... that sounds like a plan

? should I use one of the OEM fans or splurge on an aftermarket fan with built in thermoswitch?

I can't remember but I think the stock shroud with the 2 fans might be in one piece. Could be a lot of work to hack it up, will have to take another look.

travisjb · 09-07-2011, 10:08 AM

here's a few that might work...

Zirgo ZFU14S - Zirgo Ultra High Performance Electric Fans - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Be Cool 75014 - Be Cool Electric Fans - Overview - SummitRacing.com

this one has a shroud and built in thermoswitch
Flex-a-lite 185 Flex-a-lite Black Magic X-Treme Electric Puller Fans

same here... but this one has lower amp draw, thin profile, and weighs less... looks like a winner
Flex-a-lite 111 Flex-a-lite S-Blade Low Profile Universal Electric Fans

jnaut · 09-07-2011, 10:49 AM

I would leave the factory fan assembly in the car, look at ryan's turbo car, his 2 aftermarket fans can't keep his cool at all.

travisjb · 09-07-2011, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnaut

I would leave the factory fan assembly in the car, look at ryan's turbo car, his 2 aftermarket fans can't keep his cool at all.

okay... will assume you'll find away to work around them

Mike · 09-07-2011, 10:59 AM

Regarding the stillen bumper. Mine was blended by the body shop. 4 hours labor, but it stood up to hitting a deer on the side and massive deformation of the bumper from getting stuck on my trailer after the last alignment, which lowered it just enough to get caught up. The rest of it is actually deformed now, but the seams held up just fine.

I should have a new one delivered to me today to replace it. On this one, I'm not blending.

Also Travis,
In addition to scraping the bolt heads off of my undertray, I also wore the back underside lip off of the stillen bumper so that the front of the tray wasn't attached to anything after a while. Got black flagged at VIR because my aluminum undertray was scraping and sparking every time I hit a braking zone, so you may want to check the trailing edge of your bumper.

I think I'm going to wind up raising the car another 1/2 inch.

ChrisSlicks · 09-07-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnaut

I would leave the factory fan assembly in the car, look at ryan's turbo car, his 2 aftermarket fans can't keep his cool at all.

That was probably a side effect of blocking a lot of air to the radiator with the intercooler, I doubt the fans had much to do with it unless it was overheating at idle with zero boost. Since playing around with my oil cooler placement (now hard against the radiator) the water temps do get higher. The more air you can get to the radiator the better. Hood vents might also be necessary to reduce the high pressure zone and improve air flow.

M.Bonanni · 09-07-2011, 12:22 PM

My two cents...

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

interesting... so berk used a hybrid setup? please point us to the link if you find it... i'll look as well... thanks

Yes we used a hybrid setup. The air/water cooler was used in addition to the stock oil cooler but we also blocked the airflow to the stock cooler as we didn't think it would need it. An adequate water cooling system is absolutely necessary to make an air/water cooler work, there's just no way around it. NA with a big radiator and proper shrouding I think it would be no problem. Adding an SC to the mix...not sure...

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

Would like your guys input on tire selection... I will be running a 275/35/18 square setup, which will help keep my costs down and also gives me the 0.4 bonus points above (versus running 315s in the back and adding 135 pounds of ballast)... Given I have to use a DOT approved tire, I think I have three choices in this size

1. Ventus Z214 with "very soft" c91 tread... $267 per tire on tire rack
2. Hoosier A6... $315 on tire rack
3. BFG R1... $319 on tire rack

Do you guys have opinions on these three?

The C91s will last you all of 3 laps before they start blistering, the A6s will last you 4-5 laps. The C51 compound Hankook is much much better for longer runs. The Berk 135i is pretty much exactly the target weight/power you're shooting for. The C51s are what we run in the MotoIQ Pacific Tuner Car Championships, 275s all around, and they are excellent. The longest we've ever run on one set was a few qualifying laps, a 30 minute race, another few qualifying laps, a 15 minute race, and about 3 hours of track time giving people ride-a-longs at MFest. They still had life left in them but they were replaced with a new set for the next race. The BFG R1s will last you a good bit too but they are MUCH slower than the Hoosier R6 or Hankook C51. If you had a big time attack race that you really wanted to do well in and you have two sets of wheels I would suggest one set with C51s for practice then a set of C91s for a flying lap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

Yet another question then done for tonight haha

What fasteners do you guys recommend for the bottom of the car? I'm tearing through bolt heads on my splitter, as they contact the tarmac at 100mph, and imagine same will happen on undertray depending upon how aggressive I get with it

Countersunk flat head screws. No matter how much they scrape you can always get a flat head screwdriver in there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnaut

As for the oil cooler situation, Travis I would only run oil to water...multiple reason's.

1.Water is more efficent than air in transferring heat. True, unless that water is also hot. Cooling 230 degree oil with 210 degree water may not be as effective as cooling 230 degree oil with 80 degree air. Granted, since water is much more effective the temperature difference can be smaller for the same effect, but there's a point where it is less effective. Again, you MUST have an adequate water cooling system for it to work.
2.The whole system will weight less than any oil to air system, that gives you equal cooling. Not sure if you have weighed both systems but the air/oil cooling system vs. the water/oil cooling system we used on the car I race weighed about the same. Totally different cars though.
3.You have more options in location, leaving the front open for intercooler/radiator. Agreed. Plus you can put the weight in a more ideal place.
4. With mulitple large oil to air, I have a feeling that you are taxing the factory oil pump. I would rather have the pressure/volume to the engine.Being the most oil to water are about a 1/3 in overall size to the comparable oil to air, less stress on oil pump. Agreed.

The situation with the 135i is not comparable for obvious reasons, installer/chassis/equipment plus BMW cooling system is horrendous. If there's one car that I would say is worse than the BMW cooling system its the 370Z.

Good luck Travis! Thanks for being a pioneer for all of us!

travisjb · 09-07-2011, 12:39 PM

Great input, Mike... I'm torn between the R6 and C51 at this point

I think I'm going to step out on a limb and try to the water-oil only approach... it may not work, in which case we can always add back one air-oil core... should be interesting

Jnaut is going to install (finally) my spa oil / water temp gauge, so we'll get some accurate data to work with going forward... I should probably figure out a way to data-log this in my traqmate as well, once it is all set up

Mike · 09-07-2011, 06:05 PM

I liked the C51, but they only lasted about 3 weekends, maybe 4. The BFG R1s lasted about double that.

ChrisSlicks · 09-07-2011, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

I liked the C51, but they only lasted about 3 weekends, maybe 4. The BFG R1s lasted about double that.

The R1's do wear like iron but the grip is only roughly equivalent to a shaved RA1 or a NT-01. So it is a decent practice tire but not going to be the fastest.

jnaut · 09-07-2011, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

I can't remember but I think the stock shroud with the 2 fans might be in one piece. Could be a lot of work to hack it up, will have to take another look.

yes, Chris it is a one piece assembly.

jnaut · 09-07-2011, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by jnaut

Quote:

As for the oil cooler situation, Travis I would only run oil to water...multiple reason's.

1.Water is more efficent than air in transferring heat. True, unless that water is also hot. Cooling 230 degree oil with 210 degree water may not be as effective as cooling 230 degree oil with 80 degree air. Granted, since water is much more effective the temperature difference can be smaller for the same effect, but there's a point where it is less effective. Again, you MUST have an adequate water cooling system for it to work.
2.The whole system will weight less than any oil to air system, that gives you equal cooling. Not sure if you have weighed both systems but the air/oil cooling system vs. the water/oil cooling system we used on the car I race weighed about the same. Totally different cars though.
3.You have more options in location, leaving the front open for intercooler/radiator. Agreed. Plus you can put the weight in a more ideal place.
4. With mulitple large oil to air, I have a feeling that you are taxing the factory oil pump. I would rather have the pressure/volume to the engine.Being the most oil to water are about a 1/3 in overall size to the comparable oil to air, less stress on oil pump. Agreed.

The situation with the 135i is not comparable for obvious reasons, installer/chassis/equipment plus BMW cooling system is horrendous. If there's one car that I would say is worse than the BMW cooling system its the 370Z.

Bonnani, good info but remember you are cooling the oil with the output of the radiator. On average output temps are around 165-170 not 210 to 230 so this will help keep oil temps in check.

A little off topic but I had '08 x5 in the shop last week, for an overheat conditio, now that cooling system is horrible!! The electric wp went bad @ 52k miles.

travisjb · 09-07-2011, 09:18 PM

Even more off topic...

just ordered a bunch of metric "nutserts" and slotted flat countersunk stainless steel machine screws... woohoo!

M.Bonanni · 09-08-2011, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnaut

Originally Posted by jnaut

Bonnani, good info but remember you are cooling the oil with the output of the radiator. On average output temps are around 165-170 not 210 to 230 so this will help keep oil temps in check.

A little off topic but I had '08 x5 in the shop last week, for an overheat conditio, now that cooling system is horrible!! The electric wp went bad @ 52k miles.

True, but also remember that the oil will be heating the water a bit too so it will be hotter than usual at the point it goes into the radiator in the first place. Long story short, you NEED a proper water cooling system for a Laminova cooler to be effective. Simple as that.

RCZ · 09-08-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.Bonanni

True, but also remember that the oil will be heating the water a bit too so it will be hotter than usual at the point it goes into the radiator in the first place. Long story short, you NEED a proper water cooling system for a Laminova cooler to be effective. Simple as that.

Do you have any reason to believe the stock radiator isnt enough? No matter what I do I cant get the temp past the halfway dot in my car, even with the sc.

09-07-2011, 10:08 AM	#1442 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	here's a few that might work... Zirgo ZFU14S - Zirgo Ultra High Performance Electric Fans - Overview - SummitRacing.com Be Cool 75014 - Be Cool Electric Fans - Overview - SummitRacing.com this one has a shroud and built in thermoswitch Flex-a-lite 185 Flex-a-lite Black Magic X-Treme Electric Puller Fans same here... but this one has lower amp draw, thin profile, and weighs less... looks like a winner Flex-a-lite 111 Flex-a-lite S-Blade Low Profile Universal Electric Fans __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

09-07-2011, 10:49 AM	#1443 (permalink)
jnaut A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: wpb, fl Posts: 1,146 Drives: 09 370z Rep Power: 18	I would leave the factory fan assembly in the car, look at ryan's turbo car, his 2 aftermarket fans can't keep his cool at all. __________________ Best 1/4 mile 12.24 Best mph 114.5_______

09-07-2011, 10:59 AM	#1445 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2186	Regarding the stillen bumper. Mine was blended by the body shop. 4 hours labor, but it stood up to hitting a deer on the side and massive deformation of the bumper from getting stuck on my trailer after the last alignment, which lowered it just enough to get caught up. The rest of it is actually deformed now, but the seams held up just fine. I should have a new one delivered to me today to replace it. On this one, I'm not blending. Also Travis, In addition to scraping the bolt heads off of my undertray, I also wore the back underside lip off of the stillen bumper so that the front of the tray wasn't attached to anything after a while. Got black flagged at VIR because my aluminum undertray was scraping and sparking every time I hit a braking zone, so you may want to check the trailing edge of your bumper. I think I'm going to wind up raising the car another 1/2 inch. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

09-07-2011, 12:39 PM	#1448 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	Great input, Mike... I'm torn between the R6 and C51 at this point I think I'm going to step out on a limb and try to the water-oil only approach... it may not work, in which case we can always add back one air-oil core... should be interesting Jnaut is going to install (finally) my spa oil / water temp gauge, so we'll get some accurate data to work with going forward... I should probably figure out a way to data-log this in my traqmate as well, once it is all set up __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

09-07-2011, 06:05 PM	#1449 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2186	I liked the C51, but they only lasted about 3 weekends, maybe 4. The BFG R1s lasted about double that. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

09-07-2011, 09:18 PM	#1453 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	Even more off topic... just ordered a bunch of metric "nutserts" and slotted flat countersunk stainless steel machine screws... woohoo! __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

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