TravisJB Journal

Jamaica · 09-07-2011, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

Hey, got these brake ducts for $24 each and they integrate very well with the OEM front fascia... something to think about for the rest of the track junkies

Howe Racing RE206 - Howe Air Ducts - Overview - SummitRacing.com

same one Sam @ GTM has on his stop car.

sig11 · 09-06-2011, 10:22 PM

Cheap too!

Boost_lee · 09-06-2011, 11:22 PM

I like them!

Equinox · 09-06-2011, 11:45 PM

Use rivets for the under side. Depending on how often you take the undertray off, it should be fine. nothing a quick drill can't take off. You would just have to get a new rivet each time. They're cheap enough. Rivet hand tools are too, I have one myself, something like 10 bucks.

jnaut · 09-07-2011, 07:47 AM

As for the oil cooler situation, Travis I would only run oil to water...multiple reason's.

1.Water is more efficent than air in transferring heat.
2.The whole system will weight less than any oil to air system, that gives you equal cooling
3.You have more options in location, leaving the front open for intercooler/radiator.
4. With mulitple large oil to air, I have a feeling that you are taxing the factory oil pump. I would rather have the pressure/volume to the engine.Being the most oil to water are about a 1/3 in overall size to the comparable oil to air, less stress on oil pump.

The situation with the 135i is not comparable for obvious reasons, installer/chassis/equipment plus BMW cooling system is horrendous.

Also dont worry about radiator keeping up with the extra heat, as yours is quite large.You will not notice any higher temps on your gauge. You can put on a separate controller for the fans , activating them sooner.

wstar · 09-07-2011, 07:55 AM

Keep us posted on the oil:water thing. Ever since I saw the pics of AM Perf's setup, I've been leaning towards upgrading by getting rid of my Setrab oil:air thing in favor of an oil:water box. Just not sure where and how I'd mount it, etc. AMP's setup seems to be a C&R oil:water unit + C&R radiator, with the factory fans gone (or perhaps just a single fan on the driver's side?).

travisjb · 09-07-2011, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Keep us posted on the oil:water thing. Ever since I saw the pics of AM Perf's setup, I've been leaning towards upgrading by getting rid of my Setrab oil:air thing in favor of an oil:water box. Just not sure where and how I'd mount it, etc. AMP's setup seems to be a C&R oil:water unit + C&R radiator, with the factory fans gone (or perhaps just a single fan on the driver's side?).

that's a good point... the oil-water exchanger sits exactly where the factory fans do, so not clear how we keep both fans and add an exchanger... jnaut is going to have to get creative!

travisjb · 09-07-2011, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnaut

As for the oil cooler situation, Travis I would only run oil to water...multiple reason's.

1.Water is more efficent than air in transferring heat.
2.The whole system will weight less than any oil to air system, that gives you equal cooling
3.You have more options in location, leaving the front open for intercooler/radiator.
4. With mulitple large oil to air, I have a feeling that you are taxing the factory oil pump. I would rather have the pressure/volume to the engine.Being the most oil to water are about a 1/3 in overall size to the comparable oil to air, less stress on oil pump.

The situation with the 135i is not comparable for obvious reasons, installer/chassis/equipment plus BMW cooling system is horrendous.

Also dont worry about radiator keeping up with the extra heat, as yours is quite large.You will not notice any higher temps on your gauge. You can put on a separate controller for the fans , activating them sooner.

Okay jnaut, I'm willing to take a gamble on it... we will try to oil-water heat exchanger only route... let me know if you want to handle procurement of the parts and what you propose specifically... as for the fan controller - I'd rather not have to remember to switch those on every time, so let's get an inexpensive thermoswitch to cut it on at 170-180F

...this should be an informative exercise... I'll keep one of the setrab cores handy just in case

M.Bonanni · 09-07-2011, 11:22 AM

My two cents...

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

interesting... so berk used a hybrid setup? please point us to the link if you find it... i'll look as well... thanks

Yes we used a hybrid setup. The air/water cooler was used in addition to the stock oil cooler but we also blocked the airflow to the stock cooler as we didn't think it would need it. An adequate water cooling system is absolutely necessary to make an air/water cooler work, there's just no way around it. NA with a big radiator and proper shrouding I think it would be no problem. Adding an SC to the mix...not sure...

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

Would like your guys input on tire selection... I will be running a 275/35/18 square setup, which will help keep my costs down and also gives me the 0.4 bonus points above (versus running 315s in the back and adding 135 pounds of ballast)... Given I have to use a DOT approved tire, I think I have three choices in this size

1. Ventus Z214 with "very soft" c91 tread... $267 per tire on tire rack
2. Hoosier A6... $315 on tire rack
3. BFG R1... $319 on tire rack

Do you guys have opinions on these three?

The C91s will last you all of 3 laps before they start blistering, the A6s will last you 4-5 laps. The C51 compound Hankook is much much better for longer runs. The Berk 135i is pretty much exactly the target weight/power you're shooting for. The C51s are what we run in the MotoIQ Pacific Tuner Car Championships, 275s all around, and they are excellent. The longest we've ever run on one set was a few qualifying laps, a 30 minute race, another few qualifying laps, a 15 minute race, and about 3 hours of track time giving people ride-a-longs at MFest. They still had life left in them but they were replaced with a new set for the next race. The BFG R1s will last you a good bit too but they are MUCH slower than the Hoosier R6 or Hankook C51. If you had a big time attack race that you really wanted to do well in and you have two sets of wheels I would suggest one set with C51s for practice then a set of C91s for a flying lap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

Yet another question then done for tonight haha

What fasteners do you guys recommend for the bottom of the car? I'm tearing through bolt heads on my splitter, as they contact the tarmac at 100mph, and imagine same will happen on undertray depending upon how aggressive I get with it

Countersunk flat head screws. No matter how much they scrape you can always get a flat head screwdriver in there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnaut

As for the oil cooler situation, Travis I would only run oil to water...multiple reason's.

1.Water is more efficent than air in transferring heat. True, unless that water is also hot. Cooling 230 degree oil with 210 degree water may not be as effective as cooling 230 degree oil with 80 degree air. Granted, since water is much more effective the temperature difference can be smaller for the same effect, but there's a point where it is less effective. Again, you MUST have an adequate water cooling system for it to work.
2.The whole system will weight less than any oil to air system, that gives you equal cooling. Not sure if you have weighed both systems but the air/oil cooling system vs. the water/oil cooling system we used on the car I race weighed about the same. Totally different cars though.
3.You have more options in location, leaving the front open for intercooler/radiator. Agreed. Plus you can put the weight in a more ideal place.
4. With mulitple large oil to air, I have a feeling that you are taxing the factory oil pump. I would rather have the pressure/volume to the engine.Being the most oil to water are about a 1/3 in overall size to the comparable oil to air, less stress on oil pump. Agreed.

The situation with the 135i is not comparable for obvious reasons, installer/chassis/equipment plus BMW cooling system is horrendous. If there's one car that I would say is worse than the BMW cooling system its the 370Z.

Good luck Travis! Thanks for being a pioneer for all of us!

jnaut · 09-07-2011, 08:14 AM

ok, ill take care of the parts as ill be measuring where im going to mount everything. First lets gets the s/c installed, but i already have a few ideas where the cooler is going.

ChrisSlicks · 09-07-2011, 08:33 AM

At speed you have more airflow through the radiator than any fan can ever hope to deliver, the fan is more for low speed driving and I think on a track car 1 would be adequate.

travisjb · 09-07-2011, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

At speed you have more airflow through the radiator than any fan can ever hope to deliver, the fan is more for low speed driving and I think on a track car 1 would be adequate.

... there's always time spent idling before / after sessions... agree, one fan would suffice... that sounds like a plan

? should I use one of the OEM fans or splurge on an aftermarket fan with built in thermoswitch?

ChrisSlicks · 09-07-2011, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

... there's always time spent idling before / after sessions... agree, one fan would suffice... that sounds like a plan

? should I use one of the OEM fans or splurge on an aftermarket fan with built in thermoswitch?

I can't remember but I think the stock shroud with the 2 fans might be in one piece. Could be a lot of work to hack it up, will have to take another look.

jnaut · 09-07-2011, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

I can't remember but I think the stock shroud with the 2 fans might be in one piece. Could be a lot of work to hack it up, will have to take another look.

yes, Chris it is a one piece assembly.

travisjb · 09-07-2011, 09:08 AM

here's a few that might work...

Zirgo ZFU14S - Zirgo Ultra High Performance Electric Fans - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Be Cool 75014 - Be Cool Electric Fans - Overview - SummitRacing.com

this one has a shroud and built in thermoswitch
Flex-a-lite 185 Flex-a-lite Black Magic X-Treme Electric Puller Fans

same here... but this one has lower amp draw, thin profile, and weighs less... looks like a winner
Flex-a-lite 111 Flex-a-lite S-Blade Low Profile Universal Electric Fans

09-06-2011, 11:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
Boost_lee A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SATX Posts: 2,813 Drives: 09 370Z TT 6MT Rep Power: 30	I like them! __________________ My TT Z

09-06-2011, 11:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
Equinox Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Beaumont, TX Posts: 685 Drives: 06 Porsche Carrera S Rep Power: 18	Use rivets for the under side. Depending on how often you take the undertray off, it should be fine. nothing a quick drill can't take off. You would just have to get a new rivet each time. They're cheap enough. Rivet hand tools are too, I have one myself, something like 10 bucks. __________________ Check out my Albums '13 Subaru WRX STi \| '06 Porsche 911 Carrera S (SOLD) \| '96 Mazda RX-7 6.0L V8 RHD (SOLD) \| '09 Nissan Nismo #0058 (SOLD)

09-07-2011, 07:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
jnaut A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: wpb, fl Posts: 1,146 Drives: 09 370z Rep Power: 18	As for the oil cooler situation, Travis I would only run oil to water...multiple reason's. 1.Water is more efficent than air in transferring heat. 2.The whole system will weight less than any oil to air system, that gives you equal cooling 3.You have more options in location, leaving the front open for intercooler/radiator. 4. With mulitple large oil to air, I have a feeling that you are taxing the factory oil pump. I would rather have the pressure/volume to the engine.Being the most oil to water are about a 1/3 in overall size to the comparable oil to air, less stress on oil pump. The situation with the 135i is not comparable for obvious reasons, installer/chassis/equipment plus BMW cooling system is horrendous. Also dont worry about radiator keeping up with the extra heat, as yours is quite large.You will not notice any higher temps on your gauge. You can put on a separate controller for the fans , activating them sooner. __________________ Best 1/4 mile 12.24 Best mph 114.5_______

09-07-2011, 07:55 AM	#6 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Keep us posted on the oil:water thing. Ever since I saw the pics of AM Perf's setup, I've been leaning towards upgrading by getting rid of my Setrab oil:air thing in favor of an oil:water box. Just not sure where and how I'd mount it, etc. AMP's setup seems to be a C&R oil:water unit + C&R radiator, with the factory fans gone (or perhaps just a single fan on the driver's side?). __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

09-07-2011, 08:14 AM	#10 (permalink)
jnaut A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: wpb, fl Posts: 1,146 Drives: 09 370z Rep Power: 18	ok, ill take care of the parts as ill be measuring where im going to mount everything. First lets gets the s/c installed, but i already have a few ideas where the cooler is going. __________________ Best 1/4 mile 12.24 Best mph 114.5_______

09-06-2011, 10:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
sig11 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Detroit Posts: 1,294 Drives: 09 370Z Red Sport-MT Rep Power: 18	Cheap too!

09-07-2011, 08:33 AM	#11 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 654	At speed you have more airflow through the radiator than any fan can ever hope to deliver, the fan is more for low speed driving and I think on a track car 1 would be adequate. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms

09-07-2011, 09:08 AM	#15 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 189	here's a few that might work... Zirgo ZFU14S - Zirgo Ultra High Performance Electric Fans - Overview - SummitRacing.com Be Cool 75014 - Be Cool Electric Fans - Overview - SummitRacing.com this one has a shroud and built in thermoswitch Flex-a-lite 185 Flex-a-lite Black Magic X-Treme Electric Puller Fans same here... but this one has lower amp draw, thin profile, and weighs less... looks like a winner Flex-a-lite 111 Flex-a-lite S-Blade Low Profile Universal Electric Fans __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

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