[MAZOC] Official "Off-Topic" Discussion Thread

[MightyBobo]

Originally Posted by Crux

I felt towards the 7th session I was beginning to experiment how deep I could brake, how I could smooth out turn in, messing around with different gear selections, and different lines (like you said).

My instructor specifically told me to stay to the outside on the approach to turn 10 (under the bridge), but I found that if I drove a straight line from 9's exit to 10 turn in, it took me to the inside of the track, and was a bit faster. He showed me his summit main videos in his vette and he took the same approach as I did into 10 lol. He said "do as I say, not as I do" but never elaborated. Maybe staying outside is faster?

If the instructor believes I'm good enough for HPDE2, then I am good enough for HPDE1 again

You definitely want to stay on the outside there, going under the bridge. Staying inside gives you a bad approach angle, because of the slight right turn. You'd go just as fast or faster if you faded out wide to the outside. Typical reason for not doing this? Pucker factor. Them walls look real close...

1) @1:20 - very early braking. Use more pressure, less time on the brakes. You got better about it throughout the video though.

2) @1:40 - you kinda meander about on the track here. Stay right, no reason to be center, you just had to get back right again to set yourself up for the left. In reality, you'd probably have faded out left as you exited the corner, and slowly brought yourself back to track-right.

3) @1:58 - I dont like how you take this corner at all - it's a throw-away corner, and shouldnt be handled like the final corner. was your instructor teaching it this way to you? Seemed very odd to me, and almost every other car took it how I'd take it: approximately mid-track, or to the right. When you exit the first corner, you could easily have just kept turning and stayed track-right, creating a better setup for the left.

4) @2:42 - Good - use that run-off area. That's why he gave you the thumbs up...

5) @3:02 - your throttle input here was very abrupt mid-corner. Careful with that, you may upset the balance of the car if you were at the limit...

6) Throughout - you tend to adjust your steering input mid-corner a lot. Try to focus on not moving your hands, and using your throttle to adjust your turn...

7) Your Point-by's - need to be SIGNIFICANTLY more deliberate. Your arm should be at full extension out of the window, be it to the left, or over the roof. Don't half-*** it, and risk someone mis-reading your intentions because "well, he never really gave a good signal so I just went for it..."

8) When given a point - wave once you pass. Just common courtesy for a good point.

I had more, but I need to hit the sack. That is the majority of stuff I noticed. You know most of your problems: not utilizing the full width of the track and your turn-in's need work. These all come with more seat time. Being in "HPD2" only means you'll be with other faster people. It's hardly a reflection of your own skill at driving, so you could be in HPD1 for many weekends and still be improving

Other than that, looked like a solid first effort, and you kept it shiny still, so great job.

[MightyBobo]

Originally Posted by jpkirk

So I have been reading this recently and have found it entertaining. He talks about all the points you have made, especially the last one, and more. Get's good reviews. This focuses on autocross but the process extends across to driving track as well. There are several in the series. He spends some time on the idea of visualization as well. I thought it was a good read.

Speed Secrets, Winning Autocross Techniques

Interesting, which points that I made were in there? I really just was drawing off of my own experience, so I'll take that as somewhat of a compliment :-p

[Crux]

All very good points!

I'll preface the following by saying the instructor gave me a specific line to follow - which I did. I wish audio was available from the headset. 99% of what you wrote was being discussed in the car while I was driving and calling out each of the flag the stations.

1) My early breaking into turn one was because that was the one corner the instructor really wanted me to focus on. He wanted me to go in slower so I was less focussed on the speed carried throughout and more on the line. That's why it was improving as the session progressed. The project Mu HC800's I was running also felt like they faded a bit, they weren't very consistent under threshold braking. Probably going to switch to XP10 or 12 up front and XP 8 or 10 rear (respectively).

2) The instructor continually reminded me to straddle the centerline but aim for the flag station. Felt weird, but I am a newb so I listened rather than interject, and you obviously picked up on it.

3) Once again, the instructor had me take that specific line. Track out so the approach into 5 is tight, feed throttle mid corner and track out naturally into 6. Every time I deviated, he would yell at me lol. In my ride-alongs with ResIpsa and TakJak, they followed a similar line (although going flat out and not braking at all lol) through the corner. My instructors reasoning was, tracking out going down the chute the way we did allows you to brake much later. In the last session of the day, I felt as though I was gaining too much on the cars in front of me (too close for my comfort level, at least), and I found I had to leave much more room before taking turn 4 if I stuck with the line.

5) yeah I accidentally stabbed the throttle, but I recognized it and corrected it, not by letting completely off throttle, but feathering.

6) It's definitely true what they say, wherever your eyes go, your car will go. Well, when the instructor would remind me to look further up the track, I would saw the wheel as my focal point changed. I definitely need work in this department.

7) Yes, the instructor reminded me about it on the spot. The mustang driver knew he was gonna get the point by, and as soon as the tip of my finger made it out, he was going for it lol.

8) the instructor didn't like me taking my hand off the wheel unless I was giving a point by or waving to a flag stand during the cool down lap. I can see the argument for both sides.

Seat time is seat time regardless of which group I run with. Thank you for the critique! It's much appreciated, and if you remember and have time to mention the other points, I am all ears.

[b1adesofcha0s]

Man all this HPDE talk makes me want to do another one, too bad I sold you my oil cooler :P

Maybe I should try and just do one without an oil cooler. I only got 6 sessions last time I did it with NASA, though I skipped the last one because it started raining a lot. Did a session in the rain and did not want to sit in the rain for 2-3 hrs to get that last session in.

[MightyBobo]

Originally Posted by Crux

All very good points!

I'll preface the following by saying the instructor gave me a specific line to follow - which I did. I wish audio was available from the headset. 99% of what you wrote was being discussed in the car while I was driving and calling out each of the flag the stations.

1) My early breaking into turn one was because that was the one corner the instructor really wanted me to focus on. He wanted me to go in slower so I was less focussed on the speed carried throughout and more on the line. That's why it was improving as the session progressed. The project Mu HC800's I was running also felt like they faded a bit, they weren't very consistent under threshold braking. Probably going to switch to XP10 or 12 up front and XP 8 or 10 rear (respectively).

2) The instructor continually reminded me to straddle the centerline but aim for the flag station. Felt weird, but I am a newb so I listened rather than interject, and you obviously picked up on it.

3) Once again, the instructor had me take that specific line. Track out so the approach into 5 is tight, feed throttle mid corner and track out naturally into 6. Every time I deviated, he would yell at me lol. In my ride-alongs with ResIpsa and TakJak, they followed a similar line (although going flat out and not braking at all lol) through the corner. My instructors reasoning was, tracking out going down the chute the way we did allows you to brake much later. In the last session of the day, I felt as though I was gaining too much on the cars in front of me (too close for my comfort level, at least), and I found I had to leave much more room before taking turn 4 if I stuck with the line.

5) yeah I accidentally stabbed the throttle, but I recognized it and corrected it, not by letting completely off throttle, but feathering.

6) It's definitely true what they say, wherever your eyes go, your car will go. Well, when the instructor would remind me to look further up the track, I would saw the wheel as my focal point changed. I definitely need work in this department.

7) Yes, the instructor reminded me about it on the spot. The mustang driver knew he was gonna get the point by, and as soon as the tip of my finger made it out, he was going for it lol.

8) the instructor didn't like me taking my hand off the wheel unless I was giving a point by or waving to a flag stand during the cool down lap. I can see the argument for both sides.

Seat time is seat time regardless of which group I run with. Thank you for the critique! It's much appreciated, and if you remember and have time to mention the other points, I am all ears.

Bear in mind, I'm just an Intermediate, and I've never been on Summit Main. I cannot see or feel all of the things going on, on-track. He's an instructor, so do what he says. If Respisa and TakJak are both doing it, it's probably the right line

That being said, I can see what he might want you to stay left on that corner. You're basically blasting through the previous right-hander and scrubbing your speed, turning the left into a complete throw-away....

Not a bad idea about keeping the hands on the wheel, but another weekend, you should be able to free them up quick enough for a wave...

Keeping your head and eyes up can be difficult sometimes, especially at first. But you'll find that if you do it on a daily basis while driving around, you will find it easier on track.

Dont go with XP12/10's yet. Go with 10/8s. Mainly because, you only need enough brake to overpower your tires, and the 10/8 setup can EASILY do that, until you go to some R-Comps (which you shouldn't do for at least 2-3 more full weekends, minimum).

Did you swap your brake fluid with your pads? If you did not, that is likely where your fade is coming from. The HC800's are supposedly good up to about the same temp as the XP10s are...but you're the first person Ive seen trying to run Project Mu pads at the track...

[FPenvy]

Khoi was just talking to me about coming down for some 2-day event/school at summit in june I believe. might be interested in giving it a try lol

[MightyBobo]

Link?

[FPenvy]

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Link?

no idea if there is one. he was just texting me about it. june 6-7 there. all I see on their site is it's a NASA HPDE weekend.

he said it's $355 for 8 sessions and 4 classroom session he thinks.

[FPenvy]

NASA Mid-Atlantic » 6/6-7/15 @ SPR

[b1adesofcha0s]

Originally Posted by FPenvy

NASA Mid-Atlantic » 6/6-7/15 @ SPR

That's on the main circuit, I really want to try out the Shenandoah circuit. Was thinking about maybe doing one of the Friday At The Track (FATT) days, which is like an HPDE but you get time on the skid pad as well. Not sure what circuit they run on though.

[MightyBobo]

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

That's on the main circuit, I really want to try out the Shenandoah circuit. Was thinking about maybe doing one of the Friday At The Track (FATT) days, which is like an HPDE but you get time on the skid pad as well. Not sure what circuit they run on though.

You get an instructor w/ FATT? You dont want to go out to Shenandoah w/o an instructor...

[b1adesofcha0s]

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

You get an instructor w/ FATT? You dont want to go out to Shenandoah w/o an instructor...

Yes, the novice groups get an instructor. Not sure which circuit FATT runs on though.

[MightyBobo]

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

Yes, the novice groups get an instructor. Not sure which circuit FATT runs on though.

Main, as far as I know.

[chieuxuan]

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

That's on the main circuit, I really want to try out the Shenandoah circuit. Was thinking about maybe doing one of the Friday At The Track (FATT) days, which is like an HPDE but you get time on the skid pad as well. Not sure what circuit they run on though.

Do it or join me next month with Trackdaze

[b1adesofcha0s]

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Main, as far as I know.

Was hoping they alternate, but just main would be lame.

Originally Posted by chieuxuan

Do it or join me next month with Trackdaze

Next month might be too close to ZDAYZ, but I'll see if I can do the next one. Doing it in the summer without an oil cooler probably isn't ideal.