Civility vs anononymity
 

I have noticed from time to time, online in general, but specifically in this forum occasions of very severe troll-like behavior and harsh, critical attack posts.

Example:
http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-g...bless-you.html

Example: (not as harsh but one of mine... I was just trying to be helpful)
http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-g...ond-rough.html

I do not claim to be an expert about what the purpose of this forum is, but I do know that for me, it is a place for:
1. Posting knowledge and questions about our awesome 370Zs
2. Setting up meets and track events with local forum members.
3. Admiring some great 370 builds.
4. engaging in a little light hearted social interaction.

Occasionally I run across posts that seem completely inappropriate, and I ask myself "Why would someone be so harsh?". Many time they do not even seem to have taken the time to try to read understand the post they are criticizing!

I'm certain that if a Troll were standing in front of me, or knew me at work, or was a friend of my family, or belonged to the same church, or even knew that I would see him from time to time in a real life setting, he would NEVER be so confrontational and insulting.

It is only by hiding behind the shield of anonymity that a troll is able to be so... bold? Is that even the right word. How about this confrontational without fear of consequence. In short it is cowardice and immaturity, and not worthy of the brotherhood of Z lovers.

I respectufully ask you ask yourself the following questions before you hit send on a post.

1. Would I say this to someones face if I knew them ,and they knew my mother.

2. Why am I posting? Is it to feel self important, or do I actually have something positive to contribute to the discussion and to my forum community.

3. Am I just trying to make myself seem smarter and more powerful by attacking an anonymous poster.

When I see someone get flamed for a question or perhaps uninformed opinion (of which we ALL have many) I feel sorry for the troll(s). I wonder what in there life is so painful that they need to lash out at strangers. I wonder why they are so insecure that they have to build themselves up by tearing down others. (which doesn't work by the way)

I wonder how we have as a "community" failed to show them that only positive interactions lead to any kind of progress as a group.

My belief is that if we all imagined ourselves to be standing toe to toe with those we engage in online conversation, we would be better, more effective, less asinine communicators.

Respectfully submitted for your consideration.

(Now watch as the flaming begins!) :icon14:

A fair point. I think the difference between your thread and JohnYu's was the fact that he was attempting to shirk responsibility for his error, and stick Nissan or his city with the bill. You were simply addressing weak points in the car.

I only skimmed your thread, but I didn't see a great deal of hostility. I just saw people disagreeing with your position.

If you think this is bad, you haven't visited other forums..

Yeah, compared to a place like NASIOC, this forum is full of puppies and rainbows. :rofl2:

I like this forum :tup:

Surfdog you sound like an adult. What gives? :icon17:

:iagree:

This^^^^^^ Other forums are so bad I won't even post in them.

1. yes, i've met some people on this forum. they can attest that i say and do things in real life just as i do online

2. i enjoy posting stuff online even if i'm not contributing anything, don't like me? :ban:

3. yes,

:icon18: So equally abrasive in person? I guess were good then!:tup:

:tup: LOL!
I have seen similar comments posted before. I personally have not experienced that-this forum is my bar....it may be a very high bar. see below...

ME TOO!! :happydance:

:tup: stop it-you are NOT "that guy"...you are always polite and nice (to me!).

I totally agree.. and to be honest, I personally don't think its THAT bad here in this forum.. At times, when I've needed help with mechanical issues, fellow members are more than willing to help.

me too..

hey surfdog- SIA (sorry in advance) :D

not sure if i will ever offend you in the future, so just letting you know now that i meant no harm if i do offend you. :tup:


:icon17:

hmmm i try to be police and nice to everyone but sometimes i offend them unintentionally

i think 90% of the people here don't like me lol

i am in the 10% then. :tup:

An excellent primer on forum behavior. :tiphat:

I read through your thread that you linked to and failed to see anything even remotely resembling an attack. Just lots of differing opinions.

As for the other thread, to summarize my comment in that thread, "stupid" questions/comments by the ignorant are usually responded to in a positive manner. Truly stupid questions/comments can get pretty brutal responses.

All in all, I'd say this is a rather well-behaved place. The S/N ratio is very high. Considering the number of posts, the amount of crap is very small. YMMV

If you are anything in person like you are online, anyone that would be offended by you is just looking for any reason to be offended. Ie, Drama King/Queen.

:iagree:

The amount of crap is small, and when we go to town on someone it's usually justified. I think there is a bit of a disconnect here. If I am in a group of friends in real life and I say or do something that could be considered retarded, they will be merciless. Certainly much worse than people receive here. And we're all friends. There's an understanding that it's just ribbing someone for saying/doing something stupid. Online people seem to interperet everything as dead serious, and that's usually wrong. It's like I've told my GF- if there's two ways you can interpret something, and one of them pisses you off, interpret it the other way.

But, for the love of God, type so we can understand you. It doesn't have to be MLA standards, but a forum is a place where we communicate using words and sentences. Make it easy on us.

Aha! There is a lot of good-natured "harassment" on this site. Eg, a recent comment of mine about DEpointfive0's fashion choices. That's just boys being boys. ;)

+10

If you make a typo every now and then, no problem (as long as we can figure it out). Don't know what something is called? Describe it the best you can and we'll try to identify it.

If English is not your primary language, we will do our best to help you out. But if English is your primary language and you can't be bothered to use something that at least resembles proper English, don't expect us to spend the time figuring out what you mean.

IMNSHO, forums are not the place for textspeak. YMMV

I've been around the Internet for quite some time, so a topic like this is nothing new, and I mean no offense when I say, "Welcome to the Internet," when someone talks about trolls/flaming, etc.

I do have a few things to add:

a- Don't bring "anonymity vs real life" into this without really going into that topic. Some of us prefer our anonymity regardless of our actions. Even if it is tenuous. I'm not sure I've seen 5 people on this forum with their real name in their username/signature. :P I would rather have a$$holes and anonymity online than no anonymity and everyone being happy and shiny.

b- It is very, very difficult to criticize someone else and not come across as a troll oneself. Especially when one begins to make assumptions on their life, situation, attitude, insecurity, etc.

c- Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they're flaming you. This is very often forgotten, especially when you get into passionate topics like politics, ethics, religion, even our hobbies. Many things are read between the lines, including tone. Conversation in text can also be a matter of perspective. What is inflamatory to one person is normal to another. We need to have as much thick skin as thin skin... For instance, would one consider this particular post a flame, or not? :)

d- Sometimes someone needs to say the bold thing. If you're doing something dumb, someone needs to smack you upside the head and say settle down. Some of the best discussions occur when we're standing up firmly with our opinions/statements. Some of my best friends/social interactions have started out as disagreements of some sort. And that's speaking IRL, not on the Internet.

e- Not everyone is a good communicator when it comes to text. That's just how it is, which means sometimes things can be read wrong and others can come across as more abrasive than they really intend.

When I'm at the bar, and some redneck is being an ******* in the corner, I don't go up to them and plead with them to be civil, or go to my corner off to the side and try to get people on my side. People can be how they want. If they cross the line of the establishment, then they can be removed. But until then, we have to tolerate the various behaviors up to that line.

Lastly, if someone is an a$$ in a thread and you think a post went over the line or at least wasn't necessary, post a response in that thread and say, "Lighten up, man." Just like you would in a social interaction where you pat your bud on the back and say, "Lighten up, man, that wasn't necessary."

Well said, my man. Well said. Obviously, item e doesn't apply to you. :tiphat:

also some words not to use in a post are like "disagree", "incorrect", "wrong"

those label the previous poster as an idiot. no need to use judgemental words.

just use words like 'well in my case' or 'for me' or 'some of us think' even if you say the same thing. this way it sounds more like an opinion from another angle vs just labeling someone as being incompetent/wrong and you are correct.

:D

Thanks. I don't mean any of the above to be terribly inflammatory or bring down anyone's day. This place is crazy civil compared to pretty much any other community I've passed through over the years and I totally appreciate it! :)

I know I opened a big can of worms here. I agree this forum is very civil for the most part, and I'm not really very sensitive. I just think some level civility raises the level of our discourse.

I appreciate good natured ribbing. (Emphasis on good natured).

I think its good food for thought, and probably enough material here to write an entire psyche book. I just thought I'd throw it out there.

Thanks for all your impassioned responses.

I didn't mean to seem whiny or sensitive. (I was a Marine for twenty years so have a fairly thick skin). I just prefer to speak and interact with people who are not solely interested in pi$$ing people off. This forum has been incredible for the most part.

http://www.mrgrowpro.net/are%20you%20high.jpg:stirthepot:

yah, some folks are pretty judgemental, or quick to label someone.

just know that wat i post are my opinions and to be read for entertainment purposes only. :tup:

oh and :usa:

It's been said already but this place is tame compared to others out there.

With that being said, if someone is talking like a ball bag or believes they deserve a gold star every time they can count to potato, well that individual deserves the verbal equivalent of a good punch in the taint.

I guess I disagree with this. We should be able to be direct if we are civil and considerate; in fact, it shows both a certain amount of maturity and respect for another's maturity to be frank and honest. Now, on matters of opinion I agree we shouldn't (or really can't) tell people they are wrong, but it is okay to say we disagree. There are those things, however, that are not a matter of opinion and are a matter of fact. If what someone says is flat out wrong (Lincoln signed the Constitution in Versailles), you can and should say "Paul, you're wrong, he signed it Manila." Nothing wrong with that.

Where I loath forum postings is where people take make ad hominem attacks. Keep the discussion to the matter at hand and leave characterization about the protagonist out of the discussion. There is also the matter of presenting opinion as fact, and treating matters of fact as opinions.

you're WRONG.


how does that feel? not very good, whether you're right or wrong, still doesnt feel good to see that your post was stepped on. that's wat i mean. :)

that kind of behavior starts the flaming and trolling and meaninless back and forth. to have civil discussions you have to respect the other without slapping some label on their handle.

I get what you're saying. If it's something that there is no right or wrong answer, you're correct in that we should make sure we don't phrase things in absolutes. But if you tell me the best kind of oil for my car is cold pressed olive oil, I'll tell you you're flat out 100% wrong.

or you can say...


interesting selection of oil. in my case, i use mobil1 silver cap $25 5qt jug at walmart.

:icon17:

No. It doesn't feel bad. I work in policy and science circles and such things need to be said and heard. You're right that it can "ignite" flaming, but that is because people don't know how to have discussions like adults.

Wrong isn't necessarily a label, for some folks it is a state of being and for others it is a way of life.