If only I knew which one wants to supply less so they can have free marketing when they say they're "sold out." :)

Good call. If it's the PS4, I'll scalp mine for 1 baby dragon soul. Because they are delicions. :yum:

Some of the things Im reading about kinect integration are advanced beyond the simple gesture. USAToday article Why you should keep quiet while playing 'Dead Rising 3'

As far as the privacy invasion, something in my gut tells me my cellphone or webcam are going to provide more than enough intel long before the eyes get to my Xbox. I am fairly certain noone wants to watch me Halo in my draws.

There isn't enough info to even compare the next gen kinect to move. As it stands right now. The PS4 standard controller will be pretty much the equal to current move controllers. So we need to see what the PS4 eye will bring in terms of next generation tech to the PS4. It's an uncharted comparo to even talk like it's an advantage.

I totally understand your point with the pricing in family situations. I was just saying price point as moot, in our general grouping here, adults buying for themselves as this is a 'which are you buying' thread. As for developers choosing which system to develop for? I feel like most major games are on both systems, so obviously that cost and ease arent a real issue. SUre there are games that are only on one that you speak of, but disregarding the ones that im sure the companies pay for rights to an exclusive deal with, those games are almost blah for most hardcore gamers i feel. They arent sytem decision making games (the smaller games that are only on one due to ease of development) This is of course just my feelings from experience, and in no way based on factual numbers that ive researched lol

as for your other question, that would be interesting to know about expensive systems ruling over cheaper ones.

I agree with almost all of this. The Halo series sells systems. I do not even play them anymore but I still buy them all because I remember all the good times I had with it when I was younger.

I'm on my fifth 360. Granted, I only paid for the first and fifth one due to the warranty extension they gave launch owners, but that's still an awful failure rate. My first PS3 is flaky, but still mostly works. I'll wait until MS has worked the kinks out of their product. I'll be damned if I ever buy the first run of their products again.

I personally just wish I had more time and interest in handhelds again. Being mid-30s, I have a ton of nostalgia for gaming, especially the versatility and library of the Gameboy. And they're real games as opposed to flash-based mini-games on mobile touchscreen devices.

It's kinda sad, but I still chase after emulator devices that let me play old games. For instance, I have a GCW-Zero kickstarter device hopefully arriving soon...

Over the years, I've had 3 xbox's. Everyone died within the first year. Had a PS3 for 2 years now and have never had a single issue. XBOX will never enter my house again.

I know most of the Xboxes problems were due to overheating. Makes me wonder where all of these units were being stored while playing. I purchased one of the intercooler fans for each of my 360s and kept them out where they could ventilate properly, and I have had 0 issues. My original is still running like a champ.

Mine had the fan, and was placed in a good spot for airflow. Still got the original swapped out 3x under warranty. When the fourth died and the warranty had expired, I bought one of the newer build ones (elite, i think?) and haven't had a problem since.

I've had a PS3 since '06. It has never failed me. I used to play video games but as I got older ( 31 this month ) I found that video games don't really hold much appeal for me for longer than an hour or two and i'd rather be doing something outside. Now my PS3 is used for Netflix and Blu Rays.

No desire to buy a new console until this one kicks the bucket and the way its going ill have this one for a long long while still.

The issue with the Xbox was not just overheating. It was the inferior solder they used on the GPU. Given the constant heat expansion and contraction, these solder points can break. I had some issues with a graphics card giving me crazy colors n squares a couple times. I stripped it down, turned on the oven to a low heat, put it in there for 15 min or so, took it out, let it cool off, strap the HSF back on and was G2G. I heard the trick worked with the Xbox's as well. It's basically melting the soldering points enough to reconnect those contact points. Don't be like some idiots and place your $hit upside down and look at your gpu sitting on your pan instead of the board it was once on.

That's the way I remember it as well. I'd have gotten one of my electonics-savvy buddies to resolder it, but there was no way I was doing anything that would let MS weasel out of the warranty on something that broke that much.

This was always my theory as well; since so many were kept in entertainment cabinets with little to no air flow. Granted, it has been shown/admitted that the manufacturer had used a cheap part inside that was prone to failure under repeated high heat, but still.

I only had one die out and it was the disc reader of all things.

Update: Beaten to the punch by people with better memories than I. :)

Thanks for sticky'ing this thread... Im definitely a PlayStation fan, I dont think I'll ever own another xbox. I had the original xbox when it came out a loong time ago.

I don't understand the either/or mentality. Over the next four or five years, I'll end up with both. I'll get one (most likely xbox) about a year in after the kinks are worked out, and the other in a couple years when the companies start playing "deuling price cuts" and there's enough exclusive games out to justify it. I'm not sold on the new Nintendo. I'll probably pass on that until I can get a cheapo used one.

Thats actually a pretty good idea waiting, although its usually several years before they start slashing prices.

It usually takes that long before there's enough exclusive games to make me buy another system anyway.

yeah, ya know, don't get me wrong, I like my xbox, but after the 3rd one... no way. I had it elevated and a fan always blowing on it when playing. still got the 3rings of death on 2 units and went through months of issue to get them to replace it.

same here i went through 5 of them. paid for the first one then kept swapping it out for a refurbished at gamestop. bought one of the new black ones the day they came out

im still on my original fat PS3 i got at launch

MC I'm looking forward to racing you in GT6 whether on PS3 or if they do a PS4 port :tup:

Haven't seen details on ps4 yet, but xbox one is definitely a "no", which sucks because I like the 360 more than ps3

Little bit of new information for everyone that are not following things closely.

Sony's first-party games will not implement DRM measures such as online authentication or one-time use codes. But if a third-party wants to implement those measures on PS4, they have the ability to do so.

Asked what would happen if a third-party publisher wanted to “restrict” their games, Sony Computer Entertainment America CEO Jack Tretton said in an E3 interview with GameTrailers, “We create the platform. We certainly stated that with our first party games, we’re not going to be doing that.

"But we welcome publishers and business models to our platform. There’s going to be free-to-play, there’s going to be every potential business model on there. And again, that’s up to their relationship with the consumer...we’re not going to dictate that.

Asked further if PlayStation 4 would allow for types of DRM for third-party games, Tretton answered, “The DRM decision is going to have to be in the hands of third-parties. That’s not something we’re going to dictate, control, mandate or implement."

It's the same deal that current-gen consoles follow -- game publishers and developers have the ability to implement measures such as online passes.

Sony had a few aces up its sleeve last night when it showed off the PlayStation 4 at its E3 media briefing. One of those that the company was happy to flaunt was that Sony's first-party games wouldn't require online authentication or measures that would restrict the sharing of physical discs.

Xbox One's DRM measures do place certain restrictions on sharing games and on used game sales. Tretton said the threat of used game sales is overblown.

“I remember when people were saying rental games were going to be a threat, that people were going to go to Blockbuster and finish a game or find out that it wasn’t good, and that was going to hurt retail," he said.

“Obviously, used games have been under a threat for a while.” Tretton argued that taking used games out of the equation hurts consumers’ value perception of game -- they want to be able to sell games to put money in their pockets to buy new games.

“Certainly, you’ll talk to GameStop and they’ll say used games are very additive to the business. We just want to give consumers the flexibility.”

Link Here: PS4 DRM

What bothers me with this is that every company is driven with greed and in time all PS4 games will probably be DRM as well. Everyone else is doing it right? Sony is just riding the we are the good guys coat tail.

Here is also some info on Xbox Ones DRM, Granted its hearsay I have read alot of this many other places and tend to believe it.

Get out your salt shakers but an anonymous engineer on the Xbox One team has taken to Pastebin to help clear up a few misunderstandings about Xbox One's DRM. In short, Microsoft wanted to bring the concept of Steam to the Xbox.

The DRM around the Xbox One has certainly caused a bit of controversy since its announcement but if the Pastebin post is to be believed, Microsoft actually has gamers' best interests at heart. The post talks about Steam's beginnings and how many didn't actually like the service at first, adding that it wasn't until Steam started offering insane deals on games that consumers adopted the platform.

Microsoft is apparently trying to bring that same model to the console with the Xbox One that is dramatically different to what the consumer is accustomed too. It's a lofty bet, but one that Microsoft is willing to take to help spur on digital distribution of console games. Posted below is the entire post:

>The thing is we suck at telling the story. The whole point of the DRM switch from disc based to cloud based is to kill disc swapping, scratched discs, bringing discs to friends house, trade-ins for **** value with nothign going back to developers, and high game costs. If you want games cheaper then 59.99, you have to limit used games somehow. Steam's model requires a limited used game model.

>The thing is, the DRM is really really similar to steam... You can login anywhere and play your games, anyone in your house can play with the family xbox. The only diff is steam you have to sign in before playing, and Xbox does it automatically at night for you (once per 24 hours)

>It's a long tail strategy, just like steam. Steam had it's growing pains at the beginning with all it's drm **** as well. [...] For digital downloads steam had no real competition at the time, they were competing against boxed sales. At the time people were pretty irate about steam, (on 4chan too...) It was only once they had a digital marketplace with DRM that was locked down to prevent sharing that they could do super discounted ****.

>Think about it, on steam you get a game for the true cost of the game, 5$-30$. On a console you have to pay for that PLUS any additional licenses for when you sell / trade / borrow / etc. If the developer / publisher can't get it on additional licenses (like steam), then they charge the first person more. [...] If we say "Hey publishers, you limit game to 39.99, we ensure every license transfer you get 10$, gamestop gets 20$" that is a decent model... Microsoft gets a license fee on first and subsequent game purchases, compared to just first now? That's a revenue increase.

>Competition is the best man, it helps drive both to new heights. See technology from the Cold War. If we had no USSR, we'd be way worse off today. TLDR: Bring it on Steam :)

2/4

>Yeah we passed that around the office at Xbox. Most of us were like "Well played Sony, Well played". That being said they are just riding the hype train of ZOMG THEY ARE TRYING TO **** US FOR NO REASON. Without actually thinking about how convienent it would be for the majority of the time to not find that disc your brother didn't put back... [...] just simpleminded people not seeing the bigger picture. Some PS4 viral team made them all "U TOOK R DISCS" and they hiveminded.

>Everyone and their mother complains about how gamestop ***** them on their trade ins, getting 5$ for their used games. We come in trying to find a way to take money out of gamestop, and put some in developers and get you possibly cheaper games and everyone bitches at MS. Well, if you want the @#$@ing from Gamestop, go play PS4.

>The goal is to move to digital downloads, but Gamestop, Walmart, Target, Amazon are KIND OF ******* ENTRENCHED in the industry. They have a lot of power, and the shift has to be gradual. Long term goal is steam for consoles. [...] If you always want to stay with what you have, then keep current consoles, or a PS4. We're TRYING to move the industry forwards towards digital distribution... it'sa bumpy road

>Publishers have enourmous power. Microsoft is trying to balance between consumer delight, and publisher wishes. If we cave to far in either direction you have a non-starting product. WiiU goes too far to consumer, you have no 3rd party support to shake a stick at. PS4 is status-quo. XB1 is trying to push some things, at the expense of others. We have a vision, we'll see if it works in the coming years

>Living room transformation. We want to own the living room. Every living room TV with an XBox on input one. It's the thing that gives the signal to your TV, everything is secondary. The future, where games, TV, internet telephony, all that **** happens magically on some huge *** screen with hand / voice gestures... That's our goal.


3/4

>Google TV + PS4 + Minority report level gestures, that combined with a sick second screen experience (which is really hot for TV, I know I know.. tv tv tv tv tv... but it's ******* sick when you have it). Games will be the same, there are more exclusives to MS then PS atm, and Kinect 2 makes Kinect 1 look like a childs toy.

>By default it's on, listening for "Xbox On". You can turn it off tho, and turn the console like OFF off. OFF off is required for Germany / other countries that require it (no vampire appliances) [...] It has to be plugged in for the console to post. You can turn off everything it does from the settings. Think of it like airplane mode for the iPhone. You can't just unplug the cellular radio, but you can turn it off.

>Instead of 10mins, is 24hrs for your console, and 1 or 2 at a friends house. Really the majority of people have a speck of internet at least once a day. And if you don't. Don't buy an Xbox 1. Just like if you didn't have a broadband connection don't get Live, and if you don't have an HDTV the 360 isn't that great for you either. New tech, new req. This allows us to do cool **** when we can assume things like you have a kinect, you have internet, etc.

>Current plan is basically you're ****** after 24 hours. Yeah... I know. Kind of sucks. I believe they will probably revist the time period and / or find a diff way to "call in" to ensure you haven't sold your license to gamestop or something... but there is no plan YET. I'm hoping the change it, but I don't work on that so I don't have much influence there /sigh

>If the power goes out you ain't playing ****. I'm assuming you mean the internet goes out but you have power for TV and Xbox. Yes, You're ****** for single player games. Again, that's the PoR (Plan of record), but I expect it to change after the e3 clusterfuck

>What fee? There is no fee to play your games at your friends house. Never has, never will. Even x360 digital downloads could do that.


4/4

>The cloud capabilities is the **** they like the most. We basically made a huge cloud compute **** and made it free. What people are doing with it is kind of cool. THe original intention was to get all the Multiplayer servers not requiring 3rd party costs (Like EA shutting down game servers to cut costs), as well as taking all the games that servers hosted by the clients (Halo, etc), and have all that compute done in the cloud allowing more CPU cycles for gameplay. That will really expand what developers can do. Anything that doesn't need per frame calculation and can handle 100ms delays can be shifted to the cloud. That's huge.

>SmartGlass + IE is going to be pretty freaking sweet. 1 finger cursor, 2 finger direct manip. Basically if you think of a laptop trackpad where your phone/ slate is the trackpad and the monitor is your TV... it's that. The tech is there, just needs to be applied. There is some really cool **** going on with Petra + controllers that pairs people with controllers. So if person with controller two trades controlers with controller 1, their profiles magically switch. It's sick. What does this matter? Now if you lean left/right it knows which person is leaning, even if 4 people are all int he same room. It's awesome.

>New service using Azure for cloud compute. Allows developers to not use clients for hosting multiplayer servers, or other tasks that do not require per frame calcuations. It's pretty sweet.

>Honestly, if you care about anything other then pure games AT ALL. Xbox 1 > PS4. If all you do is play games, and nothing else, PS4.

This was all from the Microsoft engineer that was on /b/ last night.

>It's not worth my time to prove it, or risk my Job. I work in Studio A, 40th ave in Redmond, Wa. The thai place in the studio cafeteria has double punch wednesdays. Go ahead and call them and verify if you want.

Link: Xbox DRM

Any word on whether or not the new PS3 will require their equivalent to the Kinect and whether it will be on at all times, even when the console is off? Because that bothers me more than the greedy game distributors and heavy-handed DRM designed to kill the second-hand games market.

That's a good question I will research it some today. All I know is that it does not come with it, and you will probably want it, which brings the PS4's price to the same as the Xbox One. If you want to be technical about it.

I do not want it, which is why I resent the fact that Microsoft is packaging it with Xbox One and charging for it.

I guess you have to be into the home automation side of things to appreciate where they want to go with the Kinect. It is creepy but cool at the same time. I can walk in the house take my keys/wallet/phone etc. to the kitchen when I get home from work. Simultaneously I can say Xbox "On", "NetFlix", possibly even "Bob's Burgers" and by the time I get back to the viewing room my shows going.

Not to mention never having to look for the remote! Lol

Someone else mentioned if the government/microsoft wants to listen in on us they are going to do it anyway if they already are not (cell phones).

No, I understand where they want to go with it, and I don't think the value is worth the extra cost and the camera/mic that are constantly on in my home.

It's one thing for a government entity to be doing that possibly. I have no control over them.

But I don't have to, as a private consumer, welcome Microsoft into my home to do the same.

What OS are you running right now? Someones been watching you as long as you have had a PC :p Lets just embrace we are all dirty voyers! :icon17:

Im just messing with you I understand your concerns thats why I made this thread.

And I'm not saying that Sony is any better, because I don't know if they plan to do the same thing.

I'm just saying that with Microsoft's decisions to require an active camera and mic in your living room, coupled with a necessary internet connection, then added to the idea of intrusive DRM, even if most of it is tied to game publishers...

Has soured me on the Xbox One. If it comes out that Sony requires the same stuff, I just won't buy the next generation of console.

I cant wait to get the PS4.. thanks for the info Mr&Mrs.

dude i LOVE that game.......

ULLLLTTTRRRRRAAAAAAAA UUUULLLLLTTTTRRRRRAAAA!!!!!!!!

god i miss those days as a kid

That was the game that pretty much ended the enjoyment of arcade fighting games for me. Put your quarter on the cabinet, wait forever to get a turn, get destroyed in four and a half seconds by some twelve year old Asian kid who basically couldn't be stopped.

DRM
DRM when implemented in a very heavy-handed or ridiculous way doesn't work. It pisses people off, it gets in the way, it causes issues, or introduces new requirements for the user. I still refuse to use any "DRM" that has to have a special installer to run (I'm looking at the home video/digital copy industry on that one) whenever I can.

There are ways to end up with DRM, for instance things like Steam. It wasn't until Skyrim being Steam-required that finally made me cave in on Steam and sign up. But being on that platform more or less puts me in the same position as if I had DRM in all my games. Slow boil...

Moving toward digital gaming that is stored on some server on the Internet basically ends up being DRM without the baggage. I just don't think the DRM argument ends up being very strong because of this. I think "always online" arguments have more weight.

I'm just anti-DRM. I've not sold any games since I got $2 for my old NES games back in 1992 and walked away as a child feeling like I got stolen from. I don't trade them around or lend out games either; pretty much all of my friends can afford their own. And I've not rented a game since, well, probably high school. For me (as a computer security/privacy interested party) it's the principle. It's why I'm one of those strange people who doesn't use iTunes and still has a collection of mp3s on local disks...

Always-on eavesdropping/automation
This bugs me as well, but it's hard to really fight heavily against automation. The always on mic/camera, though, it a quality-of-life concern to me. If I wanted even the thought of a Truman Show-esque lifestyle, I'd just do it. The downside is if I *ever* want to walk into a room and say "Xbox netflix," then it *needs* to be listening all the time. At the very least, I trust Microsoft than other services that leverage these capabilities for free and use *me* as the product for them to make money.

Here's a quote I pulled from some news article that I think fits my feelings on gaming: "I remember when video games were about getting Mario to save the princess and, when you were done, the console would leave you the hell alone."

It's coming...soon we'll have 4 entire walls called Xbox Four and we'll be in Fahrenheit 451's world. :)

That cab was so fun, even though I got spanked and never did understand how some of those kids learned 20-button unstoppable combos... I didn't even fathom back then how you even found out about them let alone memorized them. Just give me upupdowndown...

Still, I can still hear and smile at the memory of those sound effects and graphics. :yum:

At least in the book "1984" they were forced to have the monitoring equipment in their homes. Here they are managing to get people to pay to have Big Brother watching :shakes head::shakes head::shakes head:

ahahahah i know what you mean... the lines for that game was hella long..... and i would get destroyed so fast because all i knew was to button mash back then... lol so simple minded back then

Yep. My skills peaked with the first SF2 and MK2. It was downhill from there.