Next Generation Gaming Systems

asdfsammich · 06-30-2013, 10:20 PM

Oh and sorry, if I'm OT by referencing PCs!

I had both Xbox and PS3 pretty much until the Sony got hacked, and I then just stuck with xbl because of the livelier online presence.

Tapatalk ...

Mr&Mrs · 06-30-2013, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdfsammich

Good info, thanks!

One thing I don't get is the fps limit.

Back when I would PC game, Q2 and counter strike I recall running Linux just to force sync my monitor refresh rate to 120hz and the graphics card to 120 fps. If you connected to a local fast dedicated server, with say 30ms latency things seemed very smooth/fast. Maybe I wasn't really getting 120fps, or maybe consoles are different, but why are we limited to 30 fps with 30ms latency on consoles?

Tapatalk ...

GPU limitations. It sounds to me like you had a more capable system and were freeing up some of the power.

asdfsammich · 06-30-2013, 10:39 PM

Ah, yep. Apples and oranges.

Back on topic. The massive server farm for hosting I think pretty much seals the deal for me since all I do is fps online. I think its time to take my xbox360 to get credit towards a pre-order.

Tapatalk ...

Mr&Mrs · 06-30-2013, 11:04 PM

If you can swing it I would keep my Xbox 360 for playing older games. I have some favorites I like to play that will make me keep mine for a while anyway.

ElVee · 07-01-2013, 09:47 AM

Yeah, Windows has issues because of being popular, but nothing like they used to. They've made changes to their processes internally which has really helped. But it's still a huge codebase and attackers continue to get better with finding things like buffer overflows in various components. Plus the addition of various silly features to stuff that doesn't help the complexity (TCP/IP, SMB in recent years).

Also, having *accounts* hacked is one thing, and is sometimes user error/weakness. Having your entire network hacked to a degree that you have to take down your entire product for near a week? That's an endemic/inherent problem with your security.

Anyway, no need to belobor that vein of the topic.

Mr&Mrs · 07-01-2013, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmkraft12

Explain to me how I am being to narrow minded that doesn't seem like an argument.

You were being to narrow minded about the cloud processing power. I did not go more into detail with the response to why because SS_Firehawk answered it before I did a few posts down from your original message. Think outside the box brother!

I also agreed with you on the 5Tflops of power that may be stretching it, but again it is a theoretical number. At the same time these systems are being tested and cloud computing is nothing new. How Microsoft plans to implement it is, and people are just not understanding and/or letting it go in one ear and out the other. Games like Titanfall are already using the technology with great success.

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-01-2013, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs

Sony is not free anymore man!

Sorry if im sounding like a fanboy I do not think I am. Just discussing my points of why im choosing the Xbox One for online games. Please do not forget im getting both systems at launch. I will give a fair unbiased opinion on both as well.

The 300k servers will act as computing power and dedicated severs for almost all of the games. No more host migrating when the player host drops out

There is no good reason to hack a console the way they are designed it is nearly impossible to plant a worm or virus. Even if they did nothing could be recovered that is of any use. All critical data is stored server side.

You are thinking to narrow minded, the 5Tflops is also theoretical which is how it has been advertised as far as I have seen. Time will tell how well the system does @ 4k at least the ability is there.

Yep my account got hacked and they took care of me. I could of had my account back the same day but I happened to be out of town on vacation so I told them to leave it locked out until I got home.

Bingo someone knows his stuff

Please do not get offended at the information I am posting, I promise as soon as I get numbers and server power from Sony I will be posting it here. I have no intent of being a fanboy and have tried discouraging any comments that lean that direction.

We all just want accurate details and as much information that can be gathered before launch. Lets keep it up!

Sony internet is still free, Playstation plus, which you pay $50 for will pay itself off the first free game you download. And theres dozens of free hot games to choose from.

Dzel · 07-01-2013, 05:51 PM

It won't be on the PS4 and I think they said in November they would start charging for online access

Sent with TapAhoe

Mr&Mrs · 07-01-2013, 07:36 PM

Finally! I found the perfect article to clear up some things on the 4k resolution. In a nut shell both systems will be able to output 4k video, gaming is a VERY far fetch. At most it will be by up-scaling the video and FPS would suffer greatly. At first sony was not even talking much about 4k video support. They finally announced it would. Out of the two systems they would be my best bet at 4k gaming due to the power of the system.

Well Sony has said in no way, shape, or form, will gaming be supported in 4k. So that pretty much eliminates Microsoft as well, regardless of what they say.

Here is the link for any Tech Geeks it is two pages long but clearly explains everything.
Xbox One vs PS4 4k Support

UNKNOWN_370 · 07-02-2013, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzel

It won't be on the PS4 and I think they said in November they would start charging for online access

Sent with TapAhoe

I looked it up. The PS3 will continue to be free and the PS4 will charge $5 a month based on having to make up for the costs of the features that will be available in the system.

4r3s · 07-02-2013, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs

Finally! I found the perfect article to clear up some things on the 4k resolution. In a nut shell both systems will be able to output 4k video, gaming is a VERY far fetch. At most it will be by up-scaling the video and FPS would suffer greatly. At first sony was not even talking much about 4k video support. They finally announced it would. Out of the two systems they would be my best bet at 4k gaming due to the power of the system.

Well Sony has said in no way, shape, or form, will gaming be supported in 4k. So that pretty much eliminates Microsoft as well, regardless of what they say.

Here is the link for any Tech Geeks it is two pages long but clearly explains everything.
Xbox One vs PS4 4k Support

I didn't look at the article at all but will the new consoles even do 1080p in all the games? I believe most current gen console games do 1080i and if you're lucky they'd do 720p? It's a shame they aren't making the hardware beefy enough to truly support 4K, the TVs will be affordable well before the 10 year console life cycle. what ever happened to planning for the future?

SS_Firehawk · 07-02-2013, 09:25 AM

Consoles are strong enough for 1080P gaming @ 30fps. 60fps, it really depends on resources. PC gaming is a good indicator of what hardware can and can't handle, but at that same note, optimization will be improved on consoles and should see better performance with equal hardware. The big thing I see is optimizing memory usage. As new ways to implement AA, anisotropic filtering, shadow effects, lighting effects, and complexity of the game, it will become a limiting factor. 2gb is considered the recommendation now for 1080P and just a couple years ago 1gb was enough. Both Sony and MS had more powerful hardware available to them but the cost per unit could get astronomical. Most PC users know if you want to play @ 1080p at the highest fidelity settings, $1500 is a solid figure to estimate total cost of a well rounded system. Subtract SSD's, reduce HDD drive size, reduce enclosure costs, embed and integrate cooling, and remove OS costs, the under $500 total is still very far away. Integrating cpu and gpu into a single APU reduces costs, improves efficiency, reduces total material usage, and reduces power usage, but limits complexity of both cpu and gpu due to the packaging. It's still 28nm and putting too much hardware on a single APU will turn it into a smoldering oven too difficult to cool. Not only that, but increased complexity also means lower yields and higher costs due to unusable silicon.

Simply put: Yes both MS and Sony have the ability to bring something out that can have all these standards, but it will limit their market because very few people will want to spend $1,000+ on a console with features that are unusable for the next 4-5 years or for the 1% that can actually afford 4k TV's and GTX Titans for console GPU's. It's just not going to happen. Mommy and Daddy don't think Johnny needs a $$$ device to play video games. And everyone knows the Dads that do understand what I just said have a monster rig in their man cave already.

4r3s · 07-02-2013, 10:54 AM

nicely put SS!

theDreamer · 07-02-2013, 10:57 AM

So with the topic of "next gen" gaming systems.
Thoughts on the outliers in the market. OUYA and future Android (and possibly iOS) gaming devices. Not exactly 1080P or 4K resolution, but many indie developers are sliding over to the systems.

4r3s · 07-02-2013, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

So with the topic of "next gen" gaming systems.
Thoughts on the outliers in the market. OUYA and future Android (and possibly iOS) gaming devices. Not exactly 1080P or 4K resolution, but many indie developers are sliding over to the systems.

Don't forget about the SteamBox

View Poll Results: Which System Will You Be Choosing?
Xbox One Hands Down	20	20.00%
PS4 Hands Down	49	49.00%
Xbox One by a Smidge	10	10.00%
PS4 by a Smidge	3	3.00%
Im Going to Wait for Consumer Reviews	11	11.00%
My Xbox 360 or PS3 is all I Need	7	7.00%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

06-30-2013, 11:04 PM	#244 (permalink)
Mr&Mrs A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,207 Drives: RZ34 Rep Power: 31940	If you can swing it I would keep my Xbox 360 for playing older games. I have some favorites I like to play that will make me keep mine for a while anyway. __________________ Project Z <--Click - Check out the link too many mods to list!

07-01-2013, 05:51 PM	#248 (permalink)
Dzel A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Midland, TX Posts: 3,884 Drives: 11 370Z PW M6 Rep Power: 23	It won't be on the PS4 and I think they said in November they would start charging for online access Sent with TapAhoe __________________ 10secWS6 IF YOU CAN'T SWING IT THEN DON'T BRING IT! Check out Domestic Performance C.C. Last edited by Dzel; 07-01-2013 at 05:53 PM.

07-01-2013, 07:36 PM	#249 (permalink)
Mr&Mrs A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,207 Drives: RZ34 Rep Power: 31940	Finally! I found the perfect article to clear up some things on the 4k resolution. In a nut shell both systems will be able to output 4k video, gaming is a VERY far fetch. At most it will be by up-scaling the video and FPS would suffer greatly. At first sony was not even talking much about 4k video support. They finally announced it would. Out of the two systems they would be my best bet at 4k gaming due to the power of the system. Well Sony has said in no way, shape, or form, will gaming be supported in 4k. So that pretty much eliminates Microsoft as well, regardless of what they say. Here is the link for any Tech Geeks it is two pages long but clearly explains everything. Xbox One vs PS4 4k Support __________________ Project Z <--Click - Check out the link too many mods to list!

07-02-2013, 09:25 AM	#252 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7335	Consoles are strong enough for 1080P gaming @ 30fps. 60fps, it really depends on resources. PC gaming is a good indicator of what hardware can and can't handle, but at that same note, optimization will be improved on consoles and should see better performance with equal hardware. The big thing I see is optimizing memory usage. As new ways to implement AA, anisotropic filtering, shadow effects, lighting effects, and complexity of the game, it will become a limiting factor. 2gb is considered the recommendation now for 1080P and just a couple years ago 1gb was enough. Both Sony and MS had more powerful hardware available to them but the cost per unit could get astronomical. Most PC users know if you want to play @ 1080p at the highest fidelity settings, $1500 is a solid figure to estimate total cost of a well rounded system. Subtract SSD's, reduce HDD drive size, reduce enclosure costs, embed and integrate cooling, and remove OS costs, the under $500 total is still very far away. Integrating cpu and gpu into a single APU reduces costs, improves efficiency, reduces total material usage, and reduces power usage, but limits complexity of both cpu and gpu due to the packaging. It's still 28nm and putting too much hardware on a single APU will turn it into a smoldering oven too difficult to cool. Not only that, but increased complexity also means lower yields and higher costs due to unusable silicon. Simply put: Yes both MS and Sony have the ability to bring something out that can have all these standards, but it will limit their market because very few people will want to spend $1,000+ on a console with features that are unusable for the next 4-5 years or for the 1% that can actually afford 4k TV's and GTX Titans for console GPU's. It's just not going to happen. Mommy and Daddy don't think Johnny needs a $$$ device to play video games. And everyone knows the Dads that do understand what I just said have a monster rig in their man cave already. UNKNOWN_370, 4r3s and Mr&Mrs like this. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

06-30-2013, 10:20 PM	#241 (permalink)
asdfsammich Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Southern California Posts: 456 Drives: 09 370Z SR MT Rep Power: 14	Oh and sorry, if I'm OT by referencing PCs! I had both Xbox and PS3 pretty much until the Sony got hacked, and I then just stuck with xbl because of the livelier online presence. Tapatalk ...

06-30-2013, 10:39 PM	#243 (permalink)
asdfsammich Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Southern California Posts: 456 Drives: 09 370Z SR MT Rep Power: 14	Ah, yep. Apples and oranges. Back on topic. The massive server farm for hosting I think pretty much seals the deal for me since all I do is fps online. I think its time to take my xbox360 to get credit towards a pre-order. Tapatalk ...

07-01-2013, 09:47 AM	#245 (permalink)
ElVee Track Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Iowa Posts: 750 Drives: 13 370z 7at t+s grey Rep Power: 16	Yeah, Windows has issues because of being popular, but nothing like they used to. They've made changes to their processes internally which has really helped. But it's still a huge codebase and attackers continue to get better with finding things like buffer overflows in various components. Plus the addition of various silly features to stuff that doesn't help the complexity (TCP/IP, SMB in recent years). Also, having accounts hacked is one thing, and is sometimes user error/weakness. Having your entire network hacked to a degree that you have to take down your entire product for near a week? That's an endemic/inherent problem with your security. Anyway, no need to belobor that vein of the topic.

07-02-2013, 10:54 AM	#253 (permalink)
4r3s A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: MD Posts: 2,077 Drives: Touring 370z Rep Power: 25	nicely put SS!

07-02-2013, 10:57 AM	#254 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	So with the topic of "next gen" gaming systems. Thoughts on the outliers in the market. OUYA and future Android (and possibly iOS) gaming devices. Not exactly 1080P or 4K resolution, but many indie developers are sliding over to the systems. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

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