U.S. Economy 2009!
 

Ok so I think we can all agree that we are in a mess economically in this country. Post up anything having to do with it. Such as what caused it, how can we fix it, inflation vs deflation, collapse, Great Depression 2, recovery, etc. Ill go first...

Too much debt in the system, and a lot of it is going bad. But the govt is not allowing it to be defaulted on and cleared out. Trying to keep asset values unrealistically high wont work because there comes a point when no more debt can be carried. Its simple math really. Its like a balloon you can keep inflating it forever.

Discuss...

One
Big
A$$
Mistake
America

My biggest thing, saving companies, the whole "to big to fail." Sorry, that is complete BS.
I have plenty of other topics, but will save those for when I have more free time (basically not at work).

Nothing like a well thought out intelligent reply. :rolleyes:

Rampant deregulation of the banking system by the previous administration certainly did not help.

Werd, I thought really hard about an answer and that was the easiest way to say it.

EDIT: P.S. Thanks to whoever on this forum has that in the sig :tup:

You do realize of course that the bailouts had already begun and the economy was in the shitter prior to Obama taking office right?

Deregulation actually occurred in the final days of Clintons 2nd term ala the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act which basically threw Glass-Steagall in the trash.

Do you realize that Obama SIGNED for all that bailout money and it did no good except break a record for national debt...

11 trillion dollars
U.S. National Debt Clock

Oh yeah im so excited for American the new Socialist country, different subject though.

Yes I am aware. My point was the economy was spiraling downward prior to January 20th and the Bush adminstration had already racked up a massive debt thanks to borrowing from the Chinese.

Or does Hannity/Rush not talk about those details? :confused:

*popcorn*

Bush Administration Adds $4 Trillion To National Debt

Bush Administration Adds $4 Trillion To National Debt - Couric & Co. - CBS News

Lockdown within 2 days. :bowrofl:

Obama, socialist that he is pisses me off less than CONgress, who should be listening to their constituents instead of lobbyists and being bullied around by the aforementioned socialist.

The deficit is really much larger than they are letting on because they dont factor in emergency supplementals and other unfunded liabilities, so this years deficit will likely top $2T in reality.

In actuality (imo) it never recovered from the dot com bust. The "real estate boom" was really just Tulip Mania

True, but they really can't win. If they let the economy spiral down, job losses continue, foreclosures continue to accelerate the public at large would be outraged at the do nothing congress/president. IMO it's a no win situation for them.

I think that the economy will do that anyway, it will just take longer while they try and prevent it. Itll be like some strange love child of the 30's and 70's :wtf2:

ETA: U6 is already peaked over 20%, were in a depression.

I actually agree with you, the problem is that Americans demand instant results and are generally too stupid to understand anything about government or the economy.

Chia Obama - Special Edition Chia from the maker of Chia Pets

CH- CH- CH- CHIEF

^^Did you know it comes in 2 expressions.
There will be a lot of work to come; to unwind what he has done...lol that rhymed

I agree with both of you, however I don't think the Government even knows how to solve these problems.

Nonetheless, I BELIEVE this mess in the economy was set up by the Government in order to have Americans freely give up their freedom. With the economy in this state and the so-called bailouts, the Government is able to get their hands into the financial and backbone of our economy. If the Government runs the money, they run everything.

Just for example, when the bank bailout was being pushed, Wellsfargo declined any Government aid. So the Government indirectly forced Wellsfargo to take the money and buy up smaller banks to expand the company. Later when the bailouts were to be paid and Wellsfargo couldnt pay it back, the Government took control of a percentage of the bank. This all seems like a master plan to me.

****THIS IS MY OPINION****

^^^Agree 100%, maybe 110%, except the banks/fed are in bed with the govt.

Threads like this are interesting to me because I like to see what people on "main street" are thinking. Whether I agree with it or think it's misguided, unfounded, or simply uneducated it doesn't matter... it's interesting!

After 9/11 interest rates were lowered to an unrealistic number to keep the economy moving. Credit standards were also lowered. Home prices soon inflated to an unsustainable number simply because people were buying homes based on payments, and the lower interest rates lowered the payments, plus you had more buyers in the pool due to the fact that anyone could get a home loan. Those that didn't buy still took advantage of the situation by cashing in on their newfound equity at a lower rate. The economy was firing on all cylinders, but it was fueled on nothing but debt. After a couple years the defaults came pouring in. Credit tightened up to a point where it has overcorrected. People can't take on anymore debt to fuel the economy, and their liquidity went out the window as the value of their assetts tumbled.

The current and past administrations both contibuted to government bailouts to artificially slow the downturn. That was and is a huge mistake. Soon we will have to pay the inflation piper.

Cap all of this off with the new entitlement generation, where people think they are entitled to a college education, and then they are entitled to a good job afterwards, coupled with businesses realizing that these people really didn't learn any real world skills in college and the fact that the economy has slowed to a standstill, and you have lost jobs that just aren't going to come back.

In shrot we are tremendously screwed. Recovery is going to be slow and very painful. The question is do you want the government to keep interfering with the free market which may make the pain hurt slightly less, but last years longer, or do you want to let the market correct itself and suffer more in the short term, but recover much quicker. I guess a good analogy would be would you rather someone follow you around for 5 years constantly tapping on the back of your head with a hammer, or would you rather just have them give you one good whack and let you spend a couple weeks in ICU getting back to normal.

:wtf2:

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q.../seinfield.gif

+1, really.

I believe it's only going to get worse. With the government refi plan it now makes sense to stop paying your mortgage for several months to qualify for the federally guaranteed lower interest rate.

Socialism has been coming for many years.

That's called moral hazard and there was plenty of it going on before all this mess.

Wow, this thread has made it almost 6 hours? Surprising. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/images...ghting0030.gif

Let's have socialized medicine.

No thanks, I can't think of anything the govt has gotten involved in that it hasn't screwed up

The government cant run what it already has, much less anything else.

interesting read!

Yup thats why I opted out of this one. I already killed the politics section. :D

Coming right up! :roflpuke2:

Did you hear about the recent developments re Goldman Sachs...here's a link.

washingtonpost.com

I suppose it's a "good news" story except to say that they are now prospering as a lot of their big competition (Lehman Bros and Bear Stearns) went under throughout the last year. There is an interesting debate on the news in that since they have repaid their TARP funds, Goldman will now have full discretion to declare some massive record bonuses (presumably to the fat cat investment bankers) without government restrictions.

Lots that could be debated here...

off topic, i heard the Cuba block has been lifed now.

The pic was hilarious.

Huh? Are you just trying to stir the pot more here for our American friends? :stirthepot:

lol, did CTV lie to me

What did you hear? Lift on travel restrictions or trade/business restrictions by the US. I know there's been some talk re the travel part, but I thought it was just talk so far.