Anyone here into firearms?

TonyBPD · 03-06-2010, 11:53 PM

Picked this up yesterday. Walther PPS in .40 cal. First new pistol purchase in a few years. Cant wait to run a few hundred rounds though it.

semtex · 03-07-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red370

very nice man, I like the Kahrs, but they are Waaaaay overpriced.

Yes and no. On one hand, I agree that they can be a little pricey (for polymer-framed pistols). I used to wonder how they can get away with their higher than average prices, but then it dawned on me. They get away with it because people continue to buy their pistols. In fact, Kahr's PM series pistols are in very high demand right now. So much so that I haven't seen a PM9 in a good 3-4 months. Heck, I've been searching for this PM45 that I bought for about 2 months. So why are Kahrs in such high demand? Because you will be hard pressed to find major caliber pistols in such light and compact packages anywhere else. And for many people, that's worth paying a few extra bucks. Take my PM45, for example. I can't think of lighter, more compact way to carry 6 rounds of .45 ACP. Even the smallest Glock .45 ACP (the G36) is bulkier. Same goes for 9mm. Compare the PM9 to the G26 side by side and you'll see a big difference. Even the new Walther PPS is big compared to a PM9.

I'm a 1911 guy. I love my 1911s. But there are some times, esp. in the summer, when even my most compact 1911 is a bit of a pain to carry (a Kimber Ultra Covert). I thought about getting a small pocket .380. In fact, I had one -- I bought the new Sig P238. But in the end I got rid of it because, right or wrong, I just can't take that round seriously. I kept referring to it as my 'better than nothing' gun. And 90% of the time I just wound up packing a 1911 when I really didn't feel like it on account of my desire to carry more than 'better than nothing'. Then I woke up and realized that I don't really have to compromise caliber for compactness if I pony up the premium to get a Kahr. Why carry 6 rounds of .380 when I can carry 6 rounds of .45 in a package that is only marginally bigger? Plus, the Kahr actually came in $10 cheaper than the P238! (I got it for $589.)

One nice bonus about the PM45 that not many people know about -- it'll accept 1911 magazines! So I don't even have to buy spare mags for the PM45. I'll just continue to carry my Wilson 8-rd mags on the weak side. Granted, a 1911 mag will stick out. But if I ever find myself in a situation where I've actually shot all 6 rounds and need more, I doubt aesthetics will be much of a concern for me.

Gaiiden · 03-08-2010, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SigPapa226

Mr Badguy. You break into my place & you won't be able to sue.

That's what I always thought. It's pretty messed up, no? I mean, obviously they can't get out of being prosecuted for the crime itself, but yea they can indeed sue you as a separate case.

Inspector71 · 03-08-2010, 02:30 PM

I bought an MK40 about 5 years ago for $530 bucks out the door. Its fit, finish, and quality are second to none. I really like it but not for target practice.

semtex · 03-09-2010, 08:22 AM

Alright, my purchase of that Kahr PM45 was a complete, boneheaded fail on my part. It never dawned on me to do a layover comparison of the PM45 against my Kimber Ultra until yesterday morning. Guess what? It's for all intents and purposes the same size! The Kimber is maybe a quarter-inch longer on the slide, but the slide is actually thinner, and the grip height is the same. So the PM45 is completely redundant with what I already have! The Kahr is lighter due to its polymer frame, but the Kimber holds 2 more rounds! Ugh. FAIL!

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the Kahr PM45 or Kahrs in general. The only thing that makes this a fail for me is that I bought it to fill a particular gap I thought I had in my collection, only to discover that it's redundant with a piece that I already have. It looks like I may have to go the .380 route to fill the gap after all (I don't have a pocket-gun in my collection). If someone is in the market for a compact .45 ACP, I will still suggest that they look at the Kahr PM45. I prefer my 1911 in the same size, but there's a $650-$700 price difference between them! (Quality 1911s are not cheap, that's for sure.) Anyway, I went and sold the PM45 yesterday, at a loss of course. I suck.

vash_241987 · 03-09-2010, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Alright, my purchase of that Kahr PM45 was a complete, boneheaded fail on my part. It never dawned on me to do a layover comparison of the PM45 against my Kimber Ultra until yesterday morning. Guess what? It's for all intents and purposes the same size! The Kimber is maybe a quarter-inch longer on the slide, but the slide is actually thinner, and the grip height is the same. So the PM45 is completely redundant with what I already have! The Kahr is lighter due to its polymer frame, but the Kimber holds 2 more rounds! Ugh. FAIL!

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the Kahr PM45 or Kahrs in general. The only thing that makes this a fail for me is that I bought it to fill a particular gap I thought I had in my collection, only to discover that it's redundant with a piece that I already have. It looks like I may have to go the .380 route to fill the gap after all (I don't have a pocket-gun in my collection). If someone is in the market for a compact .45 ACP, I will still suggest that they look at the Kahr PM45. I prefer my 1911 in the same size, but there's a $650-$700 price difference between them! (Quality 1911s are not cheap, that's for sure.) Anyway, I went and sold the PM45 yesterday, at a loss of course. I suck.

Well at least you had a new gun for a few days.

Red370 · 03-09-2010, 02:14 PM

Semtex, i predict a kel-tec P3AT in your future.

semtex · 03-09-2010, 02:22 PM

Ha. You might be right. I'm going to a gun show this weekend. I might have to pick up one. Do you by chance know how much they typically run?

Edit: Actually, if I were to go .380, I'd probably just get the Sig P238. The Kel Tec PF9 looks like it might be a contender though.

crbn_fbr · 03-09-2010, 05:44 PM

I'll jump in here and show mine. I took a quick shot with a broken crappy camera, it has no aiming ability with a broken lcd screen! But you get the idea! Top left Sig P250 in .40. Top right Sig P239 in 9mm. And the newest addition for pocket carry the Kel-Tec PF9 in 9mm on the bottom. The Kel-Tec has a nice little kick to it but expected in a 9 of that size. The P250 really does cause of the polymer grip, but its fun to shoot! P239 was my first, really great gun.

Red370 · 03-09-2010, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Ha. You might be right. I'm going to a gun show this weekend. I might have to pick up one. Do you by chance know how much they typically run?

Edit: Actually, if I were to go .380, I'd probably just get the Sig P238. The Kel Tec PF9 looks like it might be a contender though.

You should be able to pick up a P3 for $250. BTW, I owned a PF9 and its a wrist breaker, as im sure you know, you need to practice a bit with your carry gun and carry loads and i'll tell ya, 15 rounds and you're ready to put it down. My P3 literally feels like my cell phone in my pocket, i've even had it in my basketball shorts, it doesnt print at all. BTW, the CorBon DPX .380 loads penetrate 12"+ in denim covered gelatin, thats 9mm territory, just food for thought!

semtex · 03-10-2010, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red370

You should be able to pick up a P3 for $250. BTW, I owned a PF9 and its a wrist breaker, as im sure you know, you need to practice a bit with your carry gun and carry loads and i'll tell ya, 15 rounds and you're ready to put it down. My P3 literally feels like my cell phone in my pocket, i've even had it in my basketball shorts, it doesnt print at all. BTW, the CorBon DPX .380 loads penetrate 12"+ in denim covered gelatin, thats 9mm territory, just food for thought!

Yeah the PM45 is like that too. It is not a pleasant gun to shoot. Shooting .45 from such a lightweight pistol, well let's just say that the recoil has to go somewhere. In my case, it all went to the knuckle of my thumb, and it actually took skin off after 50 rounds!

Re. .380 penetration, here's the concern I've always had. I wonder if .380 has sufficient energy. You say that it penetrates 12" in gelatin. That's fine and well, but what happens if the slug hits bone? Will it have sufficient energy to break through bone? Energy is what smashes through bone, not velocity. (Velocity is important for slug expansion, however, and it factors into the energy equation.) That's one shortcoming of ballistic gelatin testing, IMO. Why is this important? Well, our vital organs are protected by bone. Take a center of mass shot, and there's a good chance the slug will hit a rib. Take a head shot, and it has to penetrate through skull. Unless you're aiming for the gut, you're not shooting at the equivalent of a block of gelatin. I'm not saying that .380 won't get the job done, mind you. I'm just saying that I'm unsure, that I don't know, hence I'm a little iffy on being confident in the round.

To give you an idea, here are the comparative energy ratings of Corbon DPX .380 vs. 9mm rounds:

.380: 196 ft/lbs.
9mm: 399ft/lbs.

So, just by moving up to a 9mm, you get a little more than double the energy.

Having said that, I still might get a .380. You just can't beat the convenience of those little things when all you want to do is go take the dog for a walk or something, and have some protection with you in case a vicious dog breaks out from a neighbor's back yard and attacks you (which happened to me once -- the thing grabbed my dog by the neck and started shaking it. I only managed to stop the thing by kicking it square in its nose. The next time something like that happens, I'd rather just shoot it. Luckily, the dog dropped my dog and ran off. It could have easily turned on me instead).

Red370 · 03-10-2010, 01:37 PM

I never said that a .380 was a single shot man stopper, but what it does offer is convenient concealment, any bullet is better than no bullet right? The P3 is a summer use only pistol for me because my summer attire is usually tshirt and shorts, when the colder weather comes around and I start wearing jackets and more clothing, I carry either my S&W J-frame .357 or my M&P .357 compact.

semtex · 03-10-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red370

I never said that a .380 was a single shot man stopper, but what it does offer is convenient concealment, any bullet is better than no bullet right? The P3 is a summer use only pistol for me because my summer attire is usually tshirt and shorts, when the colder weather comes around and I start wearing jackets and more clothing, I carry either my S&W J-frame .357 or my M&P .357 compact.

I agree. I just returned from the gun store an hour ago with a new .380, actually.

Red370 · 03-10-2010, 02:46 PM

which one did you go with?

semtex · 03-10-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red370

which one did you go with?

The Sig P238. It's like a mini-1911 (single action, carried cocked and locked). 6+1 capacity, night sights included, $599.

03-08-2010, 02:30 PM	#394 (permalink)
Inspector71 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Lee's Summit Missouri Posts: 337 Drives: 2015 Pearl White Z Rep Power: 16	Kahr I bought an MK40 about 5 years ago for $530 bucks out the door. Its fit, finish, and quality are second to none. I really like it but not for target practice.

03-09-2010, 08:22 AM	#395 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 54 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	Alright, my purchase of that Kahr PM45 was a complete, boneheaded fail on my part. It never dawned on me to do a layover comparison of the PM45 against my Kimber Ultra until yesterday morning. Guess what? It's for all intents and purposes the same size! The Kimber is maybe a quarter-inch longer on the slide, but the slide is actually thinner, and the grip height is the same. So the PM45 is completely redundant with what I already have! The Kahr is lighter due to its polymer frame, but the Kimber holds 2 more rounds! Ugh. FAIL! Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the Kahr PM45 or Kahrs in general. The only thing that makes this a fail for me is that I bought it to fill a particular gap I thought I had in my collection, only to discover that it's redundant with a piece that I already have. It looks like I may have to go the .380 route to fill the gap after all (I don't have a pocket-gun in my collection). If someone is in the market for a compact .45 ACP, I will still suggest that they look at the Kahr PM45. I prefer my 1911 in the same size, but there's a $650-$700 price difference between them! (Quality 1911s are not cheap, that's for sure.) Anyway, I went and sold the PM45 yesterday, at a loss of course. I suck. __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

03-09-2010, 02:14 PM	#397 (permalink)
Red370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kaiserslautern, Germany Posts: 4,391 Drives: your mom to church Rep Power: 296	Semtex, i predict a kel-tec P3AT in your future. __________________ 2011 Mustang 5.0 \| 3.55's \| Lethal Performance off road H-Pipe \| Magnaflow Muffler Delete \| JLT CAI/Bama tuned 417whp/ 404 ft/lbs

03-09-2010, 02:22 PM	#398 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 54 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	Ha. You might be right. I'm going to a gun show this weekend. I might have to pick up one. Do you by chance know how much they typically run? Edit: Actually, if I were to go .380, I'd probably just get the Sig P238. The Kel Tec PF9 looks like it might be a contender though. __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf. Last edited by semtex; 03-09-2010 at 02:25 PM.

03-10-2010, 01:37 PM	#402 (permalink)
Red370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kaiserslautern, Germany Posts: 4,391 Drives: your mom to church Rep Power: 296	I never said that a .380 was a single shot man stopper, but what it does offer is convenient concealment, any bullet is better than no bullet right? The P3 is a summer use only pistol for me because my summer attire is usually tshirt and shorts, when the colder weather comes around and I start wearing jackets and more clothing, I carry either my S&W J-frame .357 or my M&P .357 compact. __________________ 2011 Mustang 5.0 \| 3.55's \| Lethal Performance off road H-Pipe \| Magnaflow Muffler Delete \| JLT CAI/Bama tuned 417whp/ 404 ft/lbs Last edited by Red370; 03-10-2010 at 01:39 PM.

03-06-2010, 11:53 PM	#391 (permalink)
TonyBPD Track Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: South Jersey Posts: 614 Drives: 2012 VW Golf R Rep Power: 17	Picked this up yesterday. Walther PPS in .40 cal. First new pistol purchase in a few years. Cant wait to run a few hundred rounds though it.

03-10-2010, 02:46 PM	#404 (permalink)
Red370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kaiserslautern, Germany Posts: 4,391 Drives: your mom to church Rep Power: 296	which one did you go with? __________________ 2011 Mustang 5.0 \| 3.55's \| Lethal Performance off road H-Pipe \| Magnaflow Muffler Delete \| JLT CAI/Bama tuned 417whp/ 404 ft/lbs