Anyone here into firearms?

wstar · 12-09-2012, 01:23 PM

Personally I'd go for a 5.56 AR set up for CQ stuff and a bolt-action .308 for anything longer-range, like someone mentioned above. Or if you're worried about very long range and/or hardened targets, you could replace the .308 with a bolt-action .300 WinMag or .338 Lapua. I just don't see much utility (as a ratio to inconvenience/cost/weight) to .308 or larger caliber semis, esp given they're generally slightly-less-accurate than their bolt-action counterparts.

UNKNOWN_370 · 12-10-2012, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Personally I'd go for a 5.56 AR set up for CQ stuff and a bolt-action .308 for anything longer-range, like someone mentioned above. Or if you're worried about very long range and/or hardened targets, you could replace the .308 with a bolt-action .300 WinMag or .338 Lapua. I just don't see much utility (as a ratio to inconvenience/cost/weight) to .308 or larger caliber semis, esp given they're generally slightly-less-accurate than their bolt-action counterparts.

5.56 is ballistically bad for CQB imho. I'd look into 300 blackout and 6.8 if you don't want your rounds going through your target like a speeding needle. Plus you can push 122 gr rounds over 40-77 grain rounds which definately hit harder. Even the new m855a1 ammo for 5.56 cant compare to these rounds for stopping power.
IMHO, if you need OTM ammo to stop people well instead of generic FMJ rifle rounds. It's not a good defense round unless you can obtain an OTM rounds cheaply. 5.56 otm ammo is expensive. Silver state is awesome ammo at a good price for the 5.56, but currently, anything worth putting into a 5.56 rifle for CQB is sold out and prices are upmarket. For that i'd support a round that with enough sales, prices will drop and you can get more effective stopping power with a basic round. 6.8 and .300blackout have devastating affects on targets both CQ and LR.

tvfreakazoid · 12-11-2012, 05:00 AM

How about a grendal or .50 beawulf

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

5.56 is ballistically bad for CQB imho. I'd look into 300 blackout and 6.8 if you don't want your rounds going through your target like a speeding needle. Plus you can push 122 gr rounds over 40-77 grain rounds which definately hit harder. Even the new m855a1 ammo for 5.56 cant compare to these rounds for stopping power.
IMHO, if you need OTM ammo to stop people well instead of generic FMJ rifle rounds. It's not a good defense round unless you can obtain an OTM rounds cheaply. 5.56 otm ammo is expensive. Silver state is awesome ammo at a good price for the 5.56, but currently, anything worth putting into a 5.56 rifle for CQB is sold out and prices are upmarket. For that i'd support a round that with enough sales, prices will drop and you can get more effective stopping power with a basic round. 6.8 and .300blackout have devastating affects on targets both CQ and LR.

UNKNOWN_370 · 12-11-2012, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvfreakazoid

How about a grendal or .50 beawulf

Great rounds but in terms of good firearms selection, those calibers are alot more specialized then the two I mentioned. .50 beowolf are ultimate stopping power rounds but SHTF scenario rifle it wont make a great round. due to limited ammo capacity/availability, price and the weight factor. As far as 6.5 grendel I presume? Try finding an AR now that has an upper for that round? They are quickly becoming scarce. It came in and out like the wind on AR platforms. On a bolt action, you definitely will find a variety of those calibers in solid accurate guns.

6.8 and .300 blackout aren't the most available rounds either, but the market place is dramatically growing for it. 6.8 barrett mags are 30 rounds. Which is equal to 5.56 mags. Or you can replace the followers on 5.56 and get 25/26/28 rounds depending.
.300 blackout fits in all 5.56 mags and drums. So you get higher versatility with .300 blackout. All you need is a new barrel.

ImportConvert · 12-12-2012, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

5.56 is ballistically bad for CQB imho. You're entitled to your opinion, but a few weeks ago I spent the weekend with some guys that used it to great effect for CQB. I'd look into 300 blackout and 6.8 if you don't want your rounds going through your target like a speeding needle. Huh? Plus you can push 122 gr rounds over 40-77 grain rounds which definately hit harder True, they do have more momentum. THere is a give/take to everything, though.. Even the new m855a1 ammo for 5.56 cant compare to these rounds for stopping power. No, it's not the greatest thing out there, that's for sure, but at least it's better than M855. I use TSX or bonded softpoints, though.
IMHO, if you need OTM ammo to stop people well instead of generic FMJ rifle rounds. This goes for any and every caliber. FMJ just sucks. It's not a good defense round unless you can obtain an OTM rounds cheaply. 5.56 otm ammo is expensive. Premium 5.56 ammo costs the same or less as .300/.308/6.5. You wouldn't/shouldn't use FMJ in those, either. The difference is, cheap practice ammo exists in 5.56. Not so much the others, comparatively. Silver state is awesome ammo at a good price for the 5.56, but currently, anything worth putting into a 5.56 rifle for CQB is sold out and prices are upmarket. Not true, please see my links below. For that i'd support a round that with enough sales, prices will drop and you can get more effective stopping power with a basic round. 6.8 and .300blackout have devastating affects on targets both CQ and LR. As does the 5.56, except only out to 300-350 yards, which is about the same useful range as 300BLK, terminally speaking. I have plenty of pictures that would make you say "OH CRAP!", they are just a bit graphic for this forum.

Using cheap FMJ ammo, any caliber is dismal compared to premium ammo. Premium 5.56 does just fine, and costs the same or less as other premium caliber ammo. Difference is you can get cheaper practice ammo in 5.56, and training trumps gear any and every day of the week.

20 rds - 5.56mm Bonded Winchester Ranger 64GR JSP Ammo RA556B | SGAmmo.com

Ammo To Go : 20rds - 5.56 Silver State Armory 70gr. Barnes Lead Free TSX BT Ammo [SSA70GREEN] - $23.95

Ammo To Go : 50rds - 5.56 Nato Black Hills Barnes TSX 50gr. Hollow Point Ammo [D556N1] - $69.95

Me personally? I bought 1300 rounds of 64gr Speer Gold Dot 2012 LE ammunition and called it good. I paid $18/20 + shipping. Everything else is practice ammo, and that stays in my stash and mags. Why? It runs 2500fps from a 10.5" barrel, it expands to double caliber out to about 200 yards, it's <2MOA accurate, it's low-flash, and it has sealed primers. Very good on barriers, as well. The windshields and car body we shot up with it showed MUCH better performance than M855 and M193, which fragged on the REAR windshield, even. That shocked me. Gold Dot would hold up going through FRONT windshields much better, although it was deflected when shooting from inside of the car to outside targets. That's why if in a car, jam the muzzle through after the first round clears a path through the windshield. Outside shooting in, distance to target makes the deflection a moot point.

Anyway, I am still evaluating the 70gr TSX, but typical performance on game animals is 0.4-0.5" expansion and 24-26" of penetration with 1/2" permanent cavities through muscle, etc. observed. Quick, bloody kills. PM me if you are just dying for pix.

MacCool · 12-11-2012, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Personally I'd go for a 5.56 AR set up for CQ stuff

I agree. Plenty of good self defense ammo available in .223 and 5.56.

UNKNOWN_370 · 12-11-2012, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

I agree. Plenty of good self defense ammo available in .223 and 5.56.

.300 blackout fits in AR mags and drums. lol

ImportConvert · 12-12-2012, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

.300 blackout fits in AR mags and drums. lol

Premium ammo costs similar, training ammo drastically favors 5.56, performance on-target difference between a similarly placed projectile doesn't differ much when both are loaded with good ammunition. Unless you are working around vehicles a lot (greater mass does do better on body panels, etc. in some cases), 300AAC doesn't make sense to me.

12-09-2012, 01:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Personally I'd go for a 5.56 AR set up for CQ stuff and a bolt-action .308 for anything longer-range, like someone mentioned above. Or if you're worried about very long range and/or hardened targets, you could replace the .308 with a bolt-action .300 WinMag or .338 Lapua. I just don't see much utility (as a ratio to inconvenience/cost/weight) to .308 or larger caliber semis, esp given they're generally slightly-less-accurate than their bolt-action counterparts. OMGiGOTaZ likes this. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details Last edited by wstar; 12-09-2012 at 01:27 PM.