No my hands on is with spikes tactical and colt. and of course the army which is really a bad indicator i know because the army's weapons have seen abuse
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01-10-2012, 06:43 AM | #1666 (permalink) |
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No my hands on is with spikes tactical and colt. and of course the army which is really a bad indicator i know because the army's weapons have seen abuse that would turn an enthusiast's stomach.
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01-10-2012, 09:07 AM | #1667 (permalink) | |
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I do agree that the platform has relative weak spots, noteably the bolt and BCG, but it's extremely hard for me to imagine the **** hitting the fan hard enough for you that those would even begin to be an issue. There might be other reasons to choose the SCAR or ACR over the AR15 as a rifle you desire to own, but functionality, reliability, and maintenance concerns are unwarranted in civilian use. If those were your benchmarks, you'd opt for an AK. Those rifles are reliable and just about anthing that breaks on them can be fixed with 3 lb hammer and a big screwdriver. As at least one example, review Pat Rogers' article in SWAT Magazine regarding "Filthy 14". My own experience over many years and tens of thousands of rounds (in civilian use) and my association with several police department armorers just doesn't support concerns about high maintenance nor reliability. As to parts, IIRC Pat Rogers finally had an extractor break at about 27,000 rounds (with no cleaning to that point). Personally, although I've replaced the gas rings on one of my older rifles (a Stag - a consumer-grade brand and not the pinnacle of the platform), I've never had an extractor break on any AR15 I've owned. In fact, I can't think of any other malfunctions in all that time that weren't attributable to faulty ammo or magazines. Granted, other than that Stag, I don't own any "consumer grade" rifles, but if you stay away from the DPMS/Bushmaster/CMMG brands of the world, I'd venture to say that there's no way you could possibly shoot your rifle enough to have maintenance problems and parts breakage. |
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01-10-2012, 11:03 PM | #1669 (permalink) | |
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I was under the impression the stoner was an older platform that came before the m16/m4. Not all DI, but m16/m4, I don't like the charging handle placement. The AK I wish I would like it, but never have I. I don't know if its the ergonomics or what, but I can't seem to group well with an AK. I am by no means saying the m16/m4 is bad, I just want better. Yes the majority of my training an experience is with M4s, but I had rather mediocre experience. I have experienced malfunctions, and failure of parts ( gas rings and retaining pin). I like the idea that the new platforms have addressed a lot of issues. Maybe I'm just stubborn and want something newer and different. You have been extremely helpful Mac, Thank you. I don't mean to come off like an anti AR15 troll, or anti DI troll. Also I would like to try a bullpup... heard good things about the british service rifle in iraq...can't remember what its called off hand. googling.... L85/sa80. I am still only a year out of the service and would not yet consider myself a firearms enthusiast...but I am working on it. |
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01-10-2012, 11:58 PM | #1670 (permalink) | |
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The thing about firearms...we tend to like what we like. Can't judge a man for driving a Chevy instead of a Ford. My only point in getting so uppity is that I hate to see my particular Chevy criticized unfairly. If you were in a combat unit and had experience with broken gas rings in the field, your unit armorer should have been shot. If they were range weapons...yeah, high round counts and low maintenance are the norm and they tend to be fired and not maintained until they break. But again, I can't imagine any scenario where a civilian or a police agency would put anything close to that volume downrange. It would be interesting to see how a SCAR would fair over time in a training cadre. |
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01-11-2012, 01:15 AM | #1671 (permalink) | |
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Yea, it would be interesting. Durability is more important to the military than me personally, because I don't plan on abusing my weapon. I already have a plinker, that takes up most of my rounds fired. What benefits do you feel DI has that piston doesn't? besides price...because thats the biggest one I see. and it is a big one. Besides, I am willing to bet you probably know more about your chevy and my ford than I do. |
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01-11-2012, 02:52 AM | #1672 (permalink) | |
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-DI suppresses better, and with a switchblock or properly sized gas-port for the application, runs cleaner. -DI is lighter. -DI has less parts to go wrong. -DI is what the system was made for, and the forces on the BCG do not induce carrier tilt and wear to the buffer tube and other areas, nor necessitate the tightening of tolerances by adding rings to the BC and whatnot to prevent such. |
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01-11-2012, 08:15 AM | #1673 (permalink) | |
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01-11-2012, 04:03 PM | #1674 (permalink) | |
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After reading about gas-piston AR systems I was all jazzed up to purchase one. But, after talking to a couple of gunsmiths that I have a lot of respect for I was dissuaded, hence I now have that sweet DI mid-length. On the other hand I wouldn't mind owning a H&K MR556 (the civilian version of the 416 I believe), but for that money I will probably buy some Volks for my Z instead |
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01-11-2012, 05:25 PM | #1675 (permalink) | |
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01-11-2012, 06:29 PM | #1676 (permalink) |
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Just posted this to my Facebook page. Thought I'd share it here as well.
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01-12-2012, 08:27 AM | #1677 (permalink) |
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I enjoy my BCM mid-length. Haven't been able to shoot it in a few months though since I've been so busy.
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01-12-2012, 09:11 PM | #1678 (permalink) | |
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Huldra » Uppers » Huldra 5.56x45 Mid-Length Complete Upper If that is indeed a full gas-piston upper, it is cheap enough just to give it a try at some point! As far as the advantage of a gas-piston AR system, I recalled some study the military performed comparing the M4 to newer gas-piston rifles: Newer carbines outperform M4 in dust test - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times I tend to agree with you...big whoop. There really isn't a chance that I will be getting rid of my Bushmasters even though some people want to convince me that they are going to blow up and take out anyone withing a 50ft. radius the next shot I take with them. To me it is all about maintenance and what gun you have in your hands. All my ARs have FailZero BCGs and even before that I don't recall a single stoppage. On the other hand I love my H&K pistols, so that MR556 is something I might consider if I have an extra 6 grand to blow (I would have to buy two...one for shooting and the other one for parts). But since I have this thing called a Z guns have taken a passenger seat to guns for the near future. Speaking of gas-piston ARs....I watch this goofy show "Sons of Guns" where the last episode they were designing a revolutionary AR that was as dependable as an AK for the DOE. Yes they milled out their own receivers, but it looks like they just ordered a gas-piston from another manufacturer. It's like they don't expect gun-nuts to know that the H&K 416 or ACR or SCAR have been out for awhile now. With that being said, I am anxiously anticipating an email from Rainier Arms letting me know that my Noveske matched upper and lower are ready for me to buy! |
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01-12-2012, 10:13 PM | #1680 (permalink) |
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