Should I be worried?

wstar

I specifically spelled out California and NYC because those localities have gun laws on the books that would never fly in most of the rest of the country (for that matter, Chicago and Washington, DC are the other two big names on that list). AFAIK, Oregon doesn't have bad gun laws. Bad gun laws do come from the liberal side of the fence. So from my perspective, my short list of "places with bad gun laws and generally bad attitudes towards guns", which also happens to be a pretty concise list of "the most liberal places in the country" is pretty ok.

First off, let's cover the "redneck" issue. It's basically the equivalent of the N-word, but it's for poor white people. Believe me, if you threw around the black equivalent as casually as you have "redneck" so far, you'd be banned in a heartbeat. It's an offensive race/class-slur, do you get that?

Second, I think it's actually *you* who are advancing the idea that anyone who carries a gun in this country and isn't a cop is either a criminal, or a "fat, lazy, uneducated redneck", and/or "running around afraid of the government and crazy criminals". You also imply that carrying a wepaon is irresponsible. You're painting a very nasty picture of people who choose to carry here, and it's irrational and baseless. Licensed concealed carry permit-holders, regardless of the state they live in, tend to be among the most upstanding and responsible citizens in their area. They're professionals, they've never committed major crimes, they've subjected themselves to extensive background checks, etc. I feel comfortable speaking on their behalf because I'm one of these many upstanding citizens.

Now, on to your specific misstatements about guns in the US..
Copied from the gun facts page at: QUICK GUN FACTS:

FACT: Every day, 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes per day are Prevented just by showing a handgun. In less than 0.9% of the time is the gun ever actually ever fired.

* Gary Kleck, Criminologist, Florida State Univ.

FACT: Every year, people in the United States use a gun to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times- more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.

* Fall 1995, Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology

You don't think the use of a gun every 13 seconds on average to prevent a crime indicates a crime level that justifies carrying a gun?

FACT: When citizens are allowed to carry concealed weapons:

* Murder rates drop 8%

* Rape rates fall 5%

* Aggravated assaults drop 7%

More to the point, crime is significantly higher in states without right -to -carry laws.



TYPE OF CRIME HOW MUCH HIGHER IN RESTRICTIVE STATES

Violent Crime ……………………81% higher

Murder ………………………….. 86% higher

Rape …………………………… 25% higher

Assault…………………………… 82% higher

Robbery………………………….. 105% higher

Auto Theft……………………….. 60% higher

* John Lott, David Mustard: This study involved county level crime statistics from all 3,054 counties in the U.S. from 1977 through 1992. During this time, ten states adopted right-to-carry laws. It is estimated that if all states had adopted right-to-carry laws, in 1992 the U.S. would have avoided 1,400 murders, 4,200 rapes, 12,000 robberies, 60,000 aggravated assaults- and would have saved over $5,000,000,000 in victim expenses.

I could go on with the quotes, but it will get long-winded. If you want more data, head to GunCite: gun control and Second Amendment issues, and check out the statistics info on the right-hand side of the page (the left side is mostly about constitutional and legal issues). Specifically, these are good ones:

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense?

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgeff.html

__________________
7AT Track Car!
Journal thread / Car setup details

BanningZ

A.) All those places have exceptionally high crime rates especially D.C. They are not enacting gun laws because liberals hate guns. People have a knee jerk reaction to violent crime. They need something to scapegoat (Marilyn Manson, video games, gang culture, etc.) People call their congress person because they want something done about it. They call their friends and because its on the back of lets say a dead child, it makes it hard to argue against. Generally gun laws aren't being enacted because people hate guns, its because they hate dead kids.

B.) Why do you think I am against people that carry concealed gun permits?

C.) Wow I never thought of rednecks necessarily as "poor" but thanks for defining the term you refer to as offensive. Also you think that redneck is equivalent to the N word.
You are welcome to your opinion but I think there are many that would disagree and I am one of them.
Lets see: Comedy central constantly airs "The redneck comedy tour". In fact the guys in it proudly say they are rednecks and named the tour. My big fat redneck wedding is another example. There is no N-word comedy tour that I am aware of, neither is there a "My big fat N-word wedding". The African American community(for the most part) has embraced the N-word in order to change its meaning and slowly disassemble its negative connotation within their community. They are allowed to use the word.
I'm not rollin' in the cash, and I'm one of the palest people I know, but I am not able to use the term redneck? What if I want to turn it into a positive like Ron White or Jeff Foxworthy? I don’t see a lot of picketers outside of their shows being reported on.


I never implied that carrying a gun is irresponsible. It was your response to Nogood that I disagreed with. I am an advocate for concealed gun permits and have never said I wasn't, yet some how you conjured that out of my statement earlier. Can you elaborate on how I reinforced negative stereotypes of Americans with the comment that said it is a common opinion of people living outside the U.S.A.? I don't like the mentality of out of sight out of mind(i.e.: if I don't listen to it, it doesn't happen).



Statistical analysis is constantly being revisited, because as months, years and decades move on, these studies become irrelevant because society changes. That's why studies are constantly being performed, and every once in a while they will release a study in the media and people go, "Didn't they already show that in a study a couple of years ago?" One year statistics say eggs are bad, the next year they "find" that eggs are good for you, (other examples include: coffee, wine, etc.) most likely these are due to inside interest contaminating the study.


When you live in a nation of over 300 million citizens, violence occurs. Ever seen a cage full of rats? Higher populations in cities means more violence. The Cities like D.C. that have stricter gun laws, are attempting to prevent a naturally occurring tide.

I support responsible gun ownership. I think responsible gun owners should treat the second amendment like a privilege not a right. Rights can be abused, so can privileges but the problem with rights is they tend to be more abused than privileges. People that are given something that they earn are generally more appreciative of the gift, than people that are handed that gift. Drivers licenses are a privilege, and because its a privilege people are more likely to be responsible because that privilege can be taken away. Don't get me wrong there are plenty of crummy drivers out there but generally people that are in charge of dangerous things are required to have training and pass some form of requirement in order to operate that piece of equipment.


All in All that's okay though. I agree to disagree. I try to find a happy medium between being a responsible gun owner and my second amendment right to own a gun. The problem is I think far too few try to do the same thing. When you lump 90% of the country into one group I disagree with that, especially when people from other countries may be viewing you as a a representative for our country. I don't wish to attack you and I think you get that impression. I enjoy argumentative discourse and I prefer to to remain civil.

Cheers!

__________________
Become a Premium Member: Click HERE

MB 06' Nismo VQ40DE