Good handguns

ImportConvert · 12-01-2010, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVTNate

I had two TRS's. One was a basic blued CA-certified model with the hideous front cocking serrations. Springfield Custom did a smoother carry bevel on it, installed Heine Slant Pros, recrowned the barrel, straightened the lines and feed ramp, and refinished in Black-T.

The other was a custom order hard chrome with no front cocking serrations that I pulled some strings to get into CA from Les Baer.

Both were great guns. Well finished, accurate, 100% reliable. I only sold them, like the CQB and the Ed Brown Kobra Carry, because I prefer to spec my own custom 1911's. I'm really picky about features I want, and how I want them done.

Aside from the horrible KZ45, all my 1911's have been 100% reliable with any ammo. I carried a custom Colt Defender that was flawless as well, even in the much-maligned Officer's size.

My TRS's were on par with anything else and I'd recommend them to anyone looking for a semicustom 1911 at a reasonable price. They have a great reputation and I think you got a lemon, unfortunately. It happens.

How is it possible that my TRS was a lemon when it was hand-assembled? That kind of stuff just was overlooked as LB didn't care. It HAD TO have been seen. Pure junk.

Lemons happen far more often in the 1911 world than in the Glock world. I have yet to own a Glock that was a lemon. The only 2 1911's I owned were lemons. One was Wilson Combat's top model, the other was Les Baer's TRS. Neither were reliable. Neither were what I would consider well made, as the Baer had FTRB's well past the 500 round mark, and that is after I slurried the action with CLP and JB Bore-paste to try to loosen it up. The Wilson's rear-sight came loose twice, the ejecting shells chipped the Armor-tuff off down to the base parkerizing, and when they tuned it so it wouldn't do that, it wouldn't feed the last round from Wilson 47D's about 10% of the time.

Sorry, my Glock's have a great finish, the sights don't come off, and they don't jam all the time.

I used to be the biggest tuperware hater in town and loved the 1911 to death, but then I spent more on 1911's than I did on my daily driver, and they all just sucked, whereas my Glock experience has been boring. That is to say, it always hits right where I point it, never jams unless you seriously limp-wrist it, and in general, just does what it is supposed to do---accurately and reliably deliver the bullet where you want. Every time. All the time.

The ammo used in the LesBaer that caused FTRB's was anything I had, JHP's, 230gr American Eagle, shot pretty much anything on hand in it.

The Wilson kept choking on Ranger T-series 230gr. I was TRYING to make it 500 rounds with this to ensure it was reliable. I even sent it to Wilson to zero the weapon with and they pronounced that the round was reliable in the gun and saw no reason why it shouldn't be a good choice. It was not the nose that hung up but the case-rim binding between the extractor an breech-face. It was either that, or accept that I will have all my finish chipped off on the top of the slide on a $4400 pistol. no thanks. I picked "buy this junk back, please", and got my custom SIG (2X the capacity, shoots 1.17" 5-shot groups CTC at 25 yards with Gold Dots, and never jams). The trigger on it after Torie worked it over is about a 8/10 with the WIlson's trigger being a 10/10. Fit/finish on the Wilson was a big better, but both are "tight" (don't rattle when shaken HARD), and the QPQ finish on my SIG is far superior to the Armor-Tuff, which got it's first scratch down to the metal when the FFL dealer gently clipped the nylon cord in the trigger/gard with some scissors, lol. Horrible finish. Chipped/removed by ejected casings. Fail.

I just don't see ANY advantage to a 1911 over a SIG. Both are big chunks of solid steel (if that is what you want) for a range/bedside pistol.

dad · 12-01-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

How is it possible that my TRS was a lemon when it was hand-assembled? That kind of stuff just was overlooked as LB didn't care. It HAD TO have been seen. Pure junk.

Lemons happen far more often in the 1911 world than in the Glock world. I have yet to own a Glock that was a lemon. The only 2 1911's I owned were lemons. One was Wilson Combat's top model, the other was Les Baer's TRS. Neither were reliable. Neither were what I would consider well made, as the Baer had FTRB's well past the 500 round mark, and that is after I slurried the action with CLP and JB Bore-paste to try to loosen it up. The Wilson's rear-sight came loose twice, the ejecting shells chipped the Armor-tuff off down to the base parkerizing, and when they tuned it so it wouldn't do that, it wouldn't feed the last round from Wilson 47D's about 10% of the time.

Sorry, my Glock's have a great finish, the sights don't come off, and they don't jam all the time.

I used to be the biggest tuperware hater in town and loved the 1911 to death, but then I spent more on 1911's than I did on my daily driver, and they all just sucked, whereas my Glock experience has been boring. That is to say, it always hits right where I point it, never jams unless you seriously limp-wrist it, and in general, just does what it is supposed to do---accurately and reliably deliver the bullet where you want. Every time. All the time.

The ammo used in the LesBaer that caused FTRB's was anything I had, JHP's, 230gr American Eagle, shot pretty much anything on hand in it.

The Wilson kept choking on Ranger T-series 230gr. I was TRYING to make it 500 rounds with this to ensure it was reliable. I even sent it to Wilson to zero the weapon with and they pronounced that the round was reliable in the gun and saw no reason why it shouldn't be a good choice. It was not the nose that hung up but the case-rim binding between the extractor an breech-face. It was either that, or accept that I will have all my finish chipped off on the top of the slide on a $4400 pistol. no thanks. I picked "buy this junk back, please", and got my custom SIG (2X the capacity, shoots 1.17" 5-shot groups CTC at 25 yards with Gold Dots, and never jams). The trigger on it after Torie worked it over is about a 8/10 with the WIlson's trigger being a 10/10. Fit/finish on the Wilson was a big better, but both are "tight" (don't rattle when shaken HARD), and the QPQ finish on my SIG is far superior to the Armor-Tuff, which got it's first scratch down to the metal when the FFL dealer gently clipped the nylon cord in the trigger/gard with some scissors, lol. Horrible finish. Chipped/removed by ejected casings. Fail.

I just don't see ANY advantage to a 1911 over a SIG. Both are big chunks of solid steel (if that is what you want) for a range/bedside pistol.

The 1911 is an excellent model and "highly reliable"! One "lemon" 1911, does not destroy the reliability of the tens of thousands that have been produced!

Anarky · 12-02-2010, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dad

The 1911 is an excellent model and "highly reliable"! One "lemon" 1911, does not destroy the reliability of the tens of thousands that have been produced!

ImportConvert · 12-02-2010, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dad

The 1911 is an excellent model and "highly reliable"! One "lemon" 1911, does not destroy the reliability of the tens of thousands that have been produced!

Of the 3 1911's in my family, none ran right (including a TRS and a Tactical Supergrade and a Colt). Also, every poll I have ever seen on other forums with thousands of members, the 1911 comes out on the bottom, every time, regarding reliability.

It's an older design and it's showing its age.

Here is a quote from one of the men most familiar with the 1911 platform you are going to find, Hilton Yam, :

Quote:

What are the main pitfalls of running a 1911 for duty? Weapon maintenance and end user responsibility are the two big issues. The end user needs to be dialed in to the gun's quirks to be able to run it effectively. The day of handing out rack grade 1911s to the masses and using them for duty are pretty much over. A unit, team, or department that is looking at running 1911s needs to seriously consider having the following:
1) Two 1911s issued to each user, to allow for continuity when [notice...not "if"] one weapon goes down for service. Lacking this, the issuing unit needs to have a pool of spare guns to lend out to users when a gun goes down for maintenance.
2) Dedicated and skilled armorer support. Being able to maintain the weapon is key, and it requires more than a one day armorer school to learn how to effectively change parts in this gun. [yep, you have to know how to profile the hook on, and tension the extractor correctly, and then test-fire, tweak, etc.]
3) Transition training for the end users so that they may learn the unique manual of arms and proper maintenance of the 1911.

http://www.10-8performance.com/1911_Duty_Use.html

You won't find ANYONE recommending 2 glocks need to be issued to an agent/officer because of the time htey will spend at the armorer's. If they DO go down, you swap parts out and in 10 minutes it's working 100% again.

I can build a P226 sig from the ground-up (except sights, I don't have a sight-pusher) in 45 minutes, lubricating the thing and assuring everything is right, and touching up the hammer/sear if you give me a pile of parts. The 1911, not so much. To get it to really run right, a LOT! of fitting is required. Good luck finding one properly done for under $1800 or so (unless you buy used, in which case I recommend Wilson Combat due to their awesome warranty. They once told me they have less than a 1% return/failure rate. I guess since I had to return my weapon to them 2 times and then the 3rd time they bought it back, I am astronomically unlucky?). The cheapest 1911 I would buy, if I were to go through that mess again, is a Springfield Pro.

dad · 12-02-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Also, every poll I have ever seen on other forums with thousands of members, the 1911 comes out on the bottom, every time, regarding reliability.

It's an older design and it's showing its age.

I don't think so!

Shooting Times: LAPD SWAT

Calguns.net - View Poll Results

Sig P220 or 1911? - Calguns.net

Calguns.net - View Poll Results

Calguns.net - View Poll Results

Any 1911 torture tests? - Calguns.net

Calguns.net - View Poll Results

----------------
That link you provided, the whole site is devoted to the 1911--Not a very good debate, if you ask me!

370zproject · 12-01-2010, 02:24 AM

hmmm

cab83_750 · 12-02-2010, 12:01 AM

Anyone owns the HK Socom MK23 model?

ImportConvert · 12-02-2010, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cab83_750

Anyone owns the HK Socom MK23 model?

It's huge, it doesn't hold very many rounds for its size, it's a conversation piece or a gamer's delight or a range-gun. Similar to the Desert Eagle, just way more reliable.

370zproject · 12-02-2010, 01:01 AM

hmm rember i want to carry it conceal it someday

ImportConvert · 12-02-2010, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370zproject

hmm rember i want to carry it conceal it someday

Then you would probably like a compact model best. I find that my G19 dissapears in an MTAC holster.

Robert_K · 12-02-2010, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Then you would probably like a compact model best. I find that my G19 dissapears in an MTAC holster.

Have the same Holster for my G36. I use the Blackhawk Serpa CQC for my G23.

jetguy · 12-02-2010, 09:23 AM

top 3 handguns on my list

1) FNH five seveN
Five-seveN® ODG Handgun

2)taurus judge public defender
Taurus International Manufacturing Inc

3)S&W bodygaurd
Product: BODYGUARD® 380

ImportConvert · 12-02-2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetguy

top 3 handguns on my list

1) FNH five seveN
Five-seveN® ODG Handgun

2)taurus judge public defender
Taurus International Manufacturing Inc

3)S&W bodygaurd
Product: BODYGUARD® 380

If I had the cash on me right now, I would buy a FiveSeven. It looks like a fun toy/good varmint pistol, and very accurate, too!

FERRARI · 12-06-2010, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetguy

top 3 handguns on my list

1) FNH five seveN
Five-seveN® ODG Handgun

2)taurus judge public defender
Taurus International Manufacturing Inc

3)S&W bodygaurd
Product: BODYGUARD® 380

What do you know !!!!!! someone else here knows how GOOD an
F N FIVE-SEVEN is !!

bullitt5897 · 12-02-2010, 09:14 PM

Import you have owned 2 1911's and experienced the downside of bad quality control... My dan wesson Valor is a work of art! And is flawless!!! It is extremely reliable... Another really reliable 1911 brand is Kimber. Try one of those and experience the real joy of a true reliable 1911

View Poll Results: best personal gun for home
Taurus .357	2	2.44%
Sig P220	11	13.41%
Springfield XD-9	9	10.98%
HKS USP .45	13	15.85%
Ruger P90	4	4.88%
shotgun	10	12.20%
357 Sig	4	4.88%
Smith and Wesson M&P series	6	7.32%
Glock 17/19/?	32	39.02%
357SIG	4	4.88%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

12-01-2010, 02:24 AM	#6 (permalink)
370zproject A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Memphis Age: 35 Posts: 16,104 Drives: 09 A/T 370z blue Rep Power: 53	hmmm __________________ Brake Upgrade Package ate blue, hawk hp ceramic pads, and slotted rotors

12-02-2010, 01:01 AM	#9 (permalink)
370zproject A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Memphis Age: 35 Posts: 16,104 Drives: 09 A/T 370z blue Rep Power: 53	hmm rember i want to carry it conceal it someday __________________ Brake Upgrade Package ate blue, hawk hp ceramic pads, and slotted rotors

12-02-2010, 09:14 PM	#15 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3683	Import you have owned 2 1911's and experienced the downside of bad quality control... My dan wesson Valor is a work of art! And is flawless!!! It is extremely reliable... Another really reliable 1911 brand is Kimber. Try one of those and experience the real joy of a true reliable 1911 __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
What's Good??	Joe21	New Forum Member	5	02-05-2010 04:00 PM
What's good everyone	djamalt	New Forum Member	6	11-17-2009 12:17 AM
Good Day All	Feffman	Introduction	4	07-25-2009 09:38 AM
What's good everyone?	m.angelo	New Forum Member	0	06-21-2009 08:47 AM
ARC looks good.	shumby	Intake/Exhaust	5	03-09-2009 04:35 AM

12-02-2010, 12:01 AM	#7 (permalink)
cab83_750 Track Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: CA Posts: 887 Drives: 09 NISSAN 370Z Rep Power: 417	Anyone owns the HK Socom MK23 model?

12-02-2010, 09:23 AM	#12 (permalink)
jetguy Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: atlanta Posts: 311 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 15	top 3 handguns on my list 1) FNH five seveN Five-seveN® ODG Handgun 2)taurus judge public defender Taurus International Manufacturing Inc 3)S&W bodygaurd Product: BODYGUARD® 380