The Toyota Circus...

semtex · 02-24-2010, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

seriously... when they first mentioned this stuck throttle thing, i immediately thought "Put it in neutral!" This is what happens when people entrust their lives to a piece of machinery they don't understand. i'm not saying you should need to be a mechanic to drive a car, but you should at least know that when a car is in neutral, no matter how much gas you give it, it's not gonna move. Obviously, none of the people who died would have died had this throttle issue not happened in the first place, however if they remembered the basic bits from drivers ed they would still be alive.

I guess this is what happens when a driver is more concerned with 'cars that can park themselves' than actually knowing how to control their vehicle and save their own, their family members, and other drivers lives. sorry if that sounded snide, but what i mentioned earlier should have been anyone's first impulse

Just look at this forum and all the people who have crashed their cars as a result of switching their VDC off. As someone who never even drove a car with any form of traction control until 3 years ago, I just don't get it. Are people really so reliant on technology now that they can't even control a car unless there's an electronic nanny to cut the power to the wheels? I'm 39. Been driving since I was 14. The only traction control I ever knew of up to the age of 36 was my right foot and the gray matter inside of my skull. And guess what? It worked just fine.

TheWeatherman · 02-24-2010, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Just look at this forum and all the people who have crashed their cars as a result of switching their VDC off. As someone who never even drove a car with any form of traction control until 3 years ago, I just don't get it. Are people really so reliant on technology now that they can't even control a car unless there's an electronic nanny to cut the power to the wheels? I'm 39. Been driving since I was 14. The only traction control I ever knew of up to the age of 36 was my right foot and the gray matter inside of my skull. And guess what? It worked just fine.

Aaaaammmmeeeennn! Good call Semtex. And if someone you know doesn't know how to drive a car, now's a good time for a little review. I just told my fiancee this morning, "If this happens to you, put it in park. (Yukon Denali Auto) That's simple. Don't even go for neutral. You never use it, but you know where park is. It won't ruin your car." (Girl speak) She asked if she should use the e brake. I said no.

A lot of people have forgotten because of the electro-stuff. Semtex, good call again. I don't find my girl to be an idiot, but just thought this is a perfect time to brush up on some skills. Spearfish on this board has talked about he being afraid of his girl. Yeah, I get that, but hey, let's give them a quick lesson and move on, right?

No wonder the rest of the world thinks we're a bunch of babies. With things like this, yeah, we are.

370Zsteve · 02-24-2010, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

Here is all I am going to say.

Toyota CEO get drilled for 3 hours.

Head of Nation Transportation gets questioned for 30 mins....what is wrong with this picture.

Doesn't help Toyota is non-union, and The U.S. government owns GM (Union)

This is such a one-sided investigation it's not funny. Toyota is just taking the fall because the timing is right.

Completely agree. This is a media circus, just like the SAME ISSUE that Audi had with the 5000 in the 1980's.

I'm currently accumulating Toyota (TM) stock. Wish me luck. Buy when others are fearful, as The Man says.

The Congressional Panel is a bunch of blowhards looking for sound bites for their upcoming campaigns. Rep. Dingell of MICHIGAN (surprise) was a disgrace yesterday when assaulting the COO of Toyota USA.

370Zsteve · 02-24-2010, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

I'm 39. Been driving since I was 14.

Goddamn it, Semtex, I knew things were loose in the Lone Star State, but this is ridiculous.

Jeffblue · 02-24-2010, 06:33 PM

automatic transmission, traction control, all wheel drive. All of these are advances in technology that have allowed more people to drive in ways they would not have been able to with RWD/manual transmission with no traction control. traction control and awd have probably helped avoid many accidents. However, in the past, when theres snow and black ice all over the road one might say 'Not a good time to drive!' but now people just say 'who cares! i have VDC i'm fine.'

even though a z is probably worse in snow than most 4x4s, you'll see fewer crashed Z's in the the winter (obviously less people drive Z's in winter than 4x4's but just think proportionately) just by virtue of 2 things. A: The Z drive is well aware that his car isn't renowned for its performance in winter weather. so he buys winter tires etc and has great respect for the road conditions in which he is driving, and is especially careful B: the 4x4 driver says 'HAH i can drive just like its summer, even though its snowing because i have "ALL SEASON" tires, four wheel drive, and traction control

ChrisSlicks · 02-24-2010, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

I had CNN on this afternoon for about 20 minutes. During that time, some Congressman made the point that more deaths have already been caused by unintentionally accelerating Toyotas than were caused by exploding Pintos back in the 70s. I have no idea if that's true or not. But if it is, then that does kinda put things in perspective as well.

Natural selection at work. Like Weatherman stated it should be pretty damn apparent how to stop or slow the car. There are 2 obvious solutions that any driver should know, jam on the brakes or bump it into neutral. The brakes will stop any car, even if the throttle is pegged, and unless it is a supercar with 500hp it will have little impact on stopping distance. The quote from C&D was "A Camry with the throttle pinned to the floor stopped shorter than a Ford Taurus under regular braking". I've had it happen to me back in the day of throttle cables, and while it is a shock for a second you react and take care of it quickly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Just look at this forum and all the people who have crashed their cars as a result of switching their VDC off. As someone who never even drove a car with any form of traction control until 3 years ago, I just don't get it. Are people really so reliant on technology now that they can't even control a car unless there's an electronic nanny to cut the power to the wheels? I'm 39. Been driving since I was 14. The only traction control I ever knew of up to the age of 36 was my right foot and the gray matter inside of my skull. And guess what? It worked just fine.

Probably some luck too. I know I did my fair share of stupid stuff when I was 18, just made sure I did it by myself with no traffic. Most of the crashes were from drivers inexperienced with powerful RWD cars, that chose the wrong way to learn. Remember our accident and fatality rates are the highest per-capita of any of the developed nations. The countries with the best driver education programs have only 1/3rd the amount of deaths. So obviously education and experience are very important factors.

dad · 02-24-2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

jam on the brakes or bump it into neutral. The brakes will stop any car, even if the throttle is pegged, and unless it is a supercar with 500hp it will have little impact on stopping distance.

Really!

Friends believe CHP officer did all he could to avoid crash - SignOnSanDiego.com

“The brakes were on fire,” Concepcion said.

dad · 02-24-2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWeatherman

Now, I know a lot of you may have some different opinions than I do, but watching CNN this morning and afernoon, this is getting ridiculous. I work for the news, but this is out of hand. The way some of the media is handling this and the way our government is talking down to Mr. Toyoda is awful. The media and government should be ashamed at how they are handling this.

I am trying to put into perspective how many people have been killed or injured from the acceleration problem. I have seen an uncountable amount of Toyota cars pass me on the road. They've all been completely under control. There may have been cars that have accelerated uncontrollably, but come on. Now everyone is nitpicking. If people had time to make all of these phone calls while they were accelerating out of control, that shows me they were capable of thinking of other things. My first panic reaction wouldn't be to hope on my freakin' cell phone. That's what makes me the angriest about this. I remember learning how to stop an out of control car in drivers ed for God's sake. Throw the damn thing in neutral or park and get on with it.

I really needed to vent about this because now the media is jumping on every foreign carmaker for every little recall. Hyundai was the big news this morning on CNN because of a door latch that doesn't work. That's enough! Through my years either on the road or before I had my license, there have been WAY more American recalls that were more serious. Multiple GM, Ford and Chrysler products went under the gun for different parts causing fires. Yes, burning down peoples' houses. Anyone remember recalls like this? You can't stop a switch or relay from starting on fire, but you can certainly shut your damn car off or throw it in park.

Go ahead and flame me away, but this is being blown way out of proportion. You have a better chance of getting hit by lightning than having your Toyota kill you. You know how I know that? I know the stats. So folks, don't ever step outside ever again. Make this breaking news. Lightning can kill you IN your house while you're sitting on your couch. Oh guess what? It even can kill your kids as well!

This stupid media circus going on is going to cause thousands of people to lose their jobs. You know who's jobs will probably go first? The American Toyota plant jobs. If people remembered what they were taught in drivers ed, this wouldn't be such a big issue. I've seen recalls on failing brakes, wheels falling off their mounts, fires starting from bad switches, glass randomly breaking from frame pressure, total electrical failiure, etc. etc. Those all seem just as serious and were even more frequent in some respects, but for some reason, the accelerating Toyota is the biggest car problem EVER! Ick. Get over it. If family members don't remember what to do, review the info with them. Remember the days of throttle cables? OH NO! Sometimes they'd get frozen in some conditions! Duh, put it in park, neutral, or shut the car off. Americans, stop being such a bunch of money-hungry, lawyer-loving, babies. Suck it up and deal with something instead of pointing a finger and saying, "It's their fault." Deal with it. (Yes, I'm from the US. Born here and live in Milwaukee.)

Rant over.

Toyota knew about this safety issue before hand!

The President of Toyota Akio Toyoda , has confessed and admitted that Toyota, knew about the safety issue, "but didn't announce the problem until after people were being killed or injured"!

I hope Toyota a$shole sucks wind, when the media and government pull out from Toyota's anus!

Maybe if you had lost, or had an injured family member, due to Toyota.....

theDreamer · 02-24-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dad

Toyota knew about this safety issue before hand!

The President of Toyota Akio Toyoda , has confessed and admitted that Toyota, knew about the safety issue, "but didn't announce the problem until after people were being killed or injured"!

I hope Toyota a$shole sucks wind, when the media and government pull out from Toyota's anus!

Maybe if you had lost, or had an injured family member, due to Toyota.....

So we (media/government) should go overboard on hype because Toyota neglected to reveal information like this? Wait, so all the companies who do the same thing, especially American companies should just slide by?
Sorry, but this is no different then what many American companies have done and just slide by. I agree that Toyota is to blame and it is sad they held back information, but the over hype and negative view is just sad in how bad things are here in the states.

semtex · 02-24-2010, 08:19 PM

Just came across this article in the current issue of AutoWeek and thought I'd scan and share. It even mentions the Z!

Tyrell Tyson · 02-24-2010, 08:53 PM

LOL have you guys seen FOX NEWS

hahahaaaaaa amazingly unbiased

ChrisSlicks · 02-24-2010, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dad

Really!

Friends believe CHP officer did all he could to avoid crash - SignOnSanDiego.com

“The brakes were on fire,” Concepcion said.

He didn't press them hard enough. If he just road the brake enough so that it maintained speed but didn't slow down then he would of smoked the brakes. At that point the brakes wouldn't have been very effective and the only option would have been to select neutral or park. Why he didn't think to do that nobody will ever know.

C&D repeated the test and managed to stop their car from 70 mph in 190 ft with the throttle pinned using only the brakes.

SmoothZ · 02-24-2010, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWeatherman

The media and government should be ashamed at how they are handling this.

The media is no longer about reporting for the people. The elitist attitude of the journalist has permeated into the news for years. I hate the way they pose a leading question when doing an interview. And at least 50% of Congress has no formal training in speaking in public or interrogation techniques....er, I mean cross examination of the interviewee.

SmoothZ · 02-24-2010, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrell Tyson

LOL have you guys seen FOX NEWS

hahahaaaaaa amazingly unbiased

Fair and balanced!

PapoZalsa · 02-24-2010, 11:05 PM

However, Toyota admitted that they grew to fast and they didn't paid attention to their Quality Control.

Remember that Toyota is the one that introduced the term "Just in Time" JIT to the auto industry.

But I also agreed that Toyota is getting pounded when GM and the other americans pieces of junks have/had a bunch of recalls and bad manufacture automobiles.

02-24-2010, 11:05 PM	#30 (permalink)
PapoZalsa A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Not in Sunny Florida Posts: 6,358 Drives: 16 Nismo w/Tech Pack Rep Power: 4500	However, Toyota admitted that they grew to fast and they didn't paid attention to their Quality Control. Remember that Toyota is the one that introduced the term "Just in Time" JIT to the auto industry. But I also agreed that Toyota is getting pounded when GM and the other americans pieces of junks have/had a bunch of recalls and bad manufacture automobiles. __________________ 2009 370Z MB Base w/Sport Package 6MT Modshack's Custom Air Intakes /3M Clear Bra/ Illuminated Kick Plates / F. I CBE w/12" resonators / EVO-R Front Lip / Rear Hatch Wing / Tein S-Tech Springs /Ilegal Tint in the Rep. of VA/4x20mm Z1 Spacers/ Vinyl Roof/Liquid Carbon Designs Last edited by PapoZalsa; 02-25-2010 at 08:29 AM.

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02-24-2010, 06:33 PM	#20 (permalink)
Jeffblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NY Age: 36 Posts: 9,192 Drives: Z32TT & 335xi Coupe Rep Power: 37	automatic transmission, traction control, all wheel drive. All of these are advances in technology that have allowed more people to drive in ways they would not have been able to with RWD/manual transmission with no traction control. traction control and awd have probably helped avoid many accidents. However, in the past, when theres snow and black ice all over the road one might say 'Not a good time to drive!' but now people just say 'who cares! i have VDC i'm fine.' even though a z is probably worse in snow than most 4x4s, you'll see fewer crashed Z's in the the winter (obviously less people drive Z's in winter than 4x4's but just think proportionately) just by virtue of 2 things. A: The Z drive is well aware that his car isn't renowned for its performance in winter weather. so he buys winter tires etc and has great respect for the road conditions in which he is driving, and is especially careful B: the 4x4 driver says 'HAH i can drive just like its summer, even though its snowing because i have "ALL SEASON" tires, four wheel drive, and traction control

02-24-2010, 08:53 PM	#26 (permalink)
Tyrell Tyson Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: EU Posts: 295 Drives: P90 TR Rep Power: 15	LOL have you guys seen FOX NEWS hahahaaaaaa amazingly unbiased