CoronaVirus

Rusty · 03-30-2020, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostvette

And then you get the idiots that do stupid chit, like the twatwaffle in PA, the guy that had 2 bonfires with 60+ people, the people in NYC going to Central Park in mobs...

It's a pity that this isn't hitting the stupid people harder. We are well past the time for a cleansing of the gene pool...

The gene pool needs a deep cleaning by Darwin.

SouthArk370Z · 03-30-2020, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

For all the people that say it is against the constitution to shut down a states boarder I say BS. It happens all the time when/if we have a Hurricane. Now it is shut down due to the Corona Virus outbreak.

After a hurricane (or other disaster), only a region is blocked off and it's everyone (except emergency workers) being excluded. Some of the states are trying to block off the whole state to people from specific other states (eg, FL banning NYers). I'm all for severely limiting interstate travel at this time but it may require martial law to override the right to freely travel. SCOTUS will probably have to get involved.

Spooler · 03-30-2020, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

After a hurricane (or other disaster), only a region is blocked off and it's everyone (except emergency workers) being excluded. Some of the states are trying to block off the whole state to people from specific other states (eg, FL banning NYers). I'm all for severely limiting interstate travel at this time but it may require martial law to override the right to freely travel. SCOTUS will probably have to get involved.

The problem is they are backing up in Georgia, all the way to Savannah. I am watching the case count closely in this area. It is where I work but I haven't been there in over 2 weeks. Working from home. No way in hell would I go to a gas station off the interstate. We see the same type traffic pattern before and after a Hurricane.

JARblue · 03-30-2020, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostvette

It's a pity that this isn't hitting the stupid people harder.

There's an easy fix for that. Smart people, stay home. Let the dumb people continue to assemble in large groups and don't let them in your home.

BettyZ · 03-30-2020, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

After a hurricane (or other disaster), only a region is blocked off and it's everyone (except emergency workers) being excluded. Some of the states are trying to block off the whole state to people from specific other states (eg, FL banning NYers). I'm all for severely limiting interstate travel at this time but it may require martial law to override the right to freely travel. SCOTUS will probably have to get involved.

Agreed. States cannot close their borders to citizens of other states. Full stop. That is both a Constitutional right of the citizenry, and an unconstitutional act between states.

The federal gov't likely has the right to enforce state border closures with federal troops. Not under the Insurrection Act, but via public health concerns.

These things matter. Rhode Island has National Guard conducting door-to-door searches of private property, without a warrant, for persons from NY. If that doesn't scare the hell out of you, it should.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

JARblue · 03-30-2020, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyZ

These things matter. Rhode Island has National Guard conducting door-to-door searches of private property, without a warrant, for persons from NY. If that doesn't scare the hell out of you, it should.

Simply knocking on doors does not require a warrant. Assuming that's what they are doing. I want to know what happens when they knock and the person who answers says there is no one from NY in the house. Do they accept that answer and move on? Or are they actually performing warrant-less searches inside the domicile without the home owner's permission?

Spooler · 03-30-2020, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyZ

Agreed. States cannot close their borders to citizens of other states. Full stop. That is both a Constitutional right of the citizenry, and an unconstitutional act between states.

The federal gov't likely has the right to enforce state border closures with federal troops. Not under the Insurrection Act, but via public health concerns.

These things matter. Rhode Island has National Guard conducting door-to-door searches of private property, without a warrant, for persons from NY. If that doesn't scare the hell out of you, it should.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

LOL, this happens all the time when we have Hurricanes. The boarder get's shut down to Florida and all the exits on the Georgia side get closed and only allow local traffic. It is done by the State patrols, NO National Guard. That crap is stepping over the line.

ZCanadian · 03-30-2020, 01:20 PM

Question:
If citizens were doing the smart thing - staying at home wherever possible (unless an essential service like health care, food supply, law enforcement, infrastructure repair, or to get food), why would the "freedom of movement" argument even need to come up?

They wouldn't need to close areas / states because there would be nobody to stop.

Or are we debating this solely for the benefit of the "stupid people" referred to in posts above?

Right now, this virus scares me far more than the temporary loss of any freedom that you might believe you have.

SouthArk370Z · 03-30-2020, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

Question:
If citizens were doing the smart thing - staying at home wherever possible (unless an essential service like health care, food supply, law enforcement, infrastructure repair, or to get food), why would the "freedom of movement" argument even need to come up?

They wouldn't need to close areas / states because there would be nobody to stop.

Or are we debating this solely for the benefit of the "stupid people" referred to in posts above?

Right now, this virus scares me far more than the temporary loss of any freedom that you might believe you have.

People, taken as a whole, are not going to do the smart thing. We are programmed for fight-or-flight when we feel we are in danger. "I can't fight this so I need to get the hell outta here!"

The US is set up so that people and goods can travel around the country. There are some very good reasons for that - free trade, etc. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is.

Until the feds declare this a SHTF situation (eg, martial law), people have a legal right to travel. Should we exercise that right? Hell no!!!! But, at this point, it is not legal to stop them.

Unless you are coming into contact with other people or going into contaminated places, there is no need to be scared. Concerned, yes; scared, no. But your definition of "scared" may be different than mine.

ZCanadian · 03-30-2020, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

People, taken as a whole, are not going to do the smart thing. We are programmed for fight-or-flight when we feel we are in danger. "I can't fight this so I need to get the hell outta here!"

The US is set up so that people and goods can travel around the country. There are some very good reasons for that - free trade, etc. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is.

Until the feds declare this a SHTF situation (eg, martial law), people have a legal right to travel. Should we exercise that right? Hell no!!!! But, at this point, it is not legal to stop them.

Unless you are coming into contact with other people or going into contaminated places, there is no need to be scared. Concerned, yes; scared, no. But your definition of "scared" may be different than mine.

Thanks for the reasoned reply. Nice to see at a time like this.

As for the vocabulary, I was taking that from an earlier post in this thread. I fear for those in health care, and for the economic effects. Also for the disadvantaged (they've closed homeless shelters in our prairie provinces because they cannot ensure "social distancing", where it was still snowing last week). For myself this is so far just a nuisance, and I hope that it will remain only that.

Spooler · 03-30-2020, 02:04 PM

asht, you doing OK? I see you in here.

BettyZ · 03-30-2020, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

Question:
If citizens were doing the smart thing - staying at home wherever possible (unless an essential service like health care, food supply, law enforcement, infrastructure repair, or to get food), why would the "freedom of movement" argument even need to come up?

They wouldn't need to close areas / states because there would be nobody to stop.

Or are we debating this solely for the benefit of the "stupid people" referred to in posts above?

Right now, this virus scares me far more than the temporary loss of any freedom that you might believe you have.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

ZCanadian · 03-30-2020, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyZ

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Said no-one ever, when "safety" meant potentially life.

SouthArk370Z · 03-30-2020, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZCanadian

Said no-one ever, when "safety" meant potentially life.

I think I understand where you are coming from (maybe not) but many, many Americans have given up their lives to try to preserve the freedoms, rights, and privileges of their country-mates. "Live Free Or Die" is the motto of New Hampshire. Is it the smartest attitude to have? I don't know but it's the one many Americans have.

Rusty · 03-30-2020, 04:35 PM

Just read that there is 8 strains of the virus now. They are all pretty close to one another.

03-30-2020, 01:20 PM	#998 (permalink)
ZCanadian A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Canada Posts: 1,061 Drives: 2013 370Z Rep Power: 60273	Question: If citizens were doing the smart thing - staying at home wherever possible (unless an essential service like health care, food supply, law enforcement, infrastructure repair, or to get food), why would the "freedom of movement" argument even need to come up? They wouldn't need to close areas / states because there would be nobody to stop. Or are we debating this solely for the benefit of the "stupid people" referred to in posts above? Right now, this virus scares me far more than the temporary loss of any freedom that you might believe you have. Zoren 370 and sx moneypit like this.

03-30-2020, 02:04 PM	#1001 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 13,834 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684392	asht, you doing OK? I see you in here. JARblue, Rusty and sx moneypit like this.

03-30-2020, 04:35 PM	#1005 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,221 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684438	Just read that there is 8 strains of the virus now. They are all pretty close to one another. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html