How cold is it where you live today?

I think a lot really crept in when companies started making "Risk" a big portion of their mindset. As an engineer, I'm sure you're familiar with PFMEAs. If a big risk to your profitability is lawsuits stemming from (stupid) employees subjected to cold weather (which they can't be counted on to be bright enough do dress for), you eliminate or control work in the cold.

On the one hand, it works to reduce your exposure (double joke, very high degree of difficulty) and on the other hand it accustoms your personnel to only working in controlled conditions. When conditions are uncontrolled, they feel entitled and react poorly, and the attitude and mindset spreads. Now multiply that across every industry and every condition, and you've got a large number of people who feel outraged when conditions are anything less than ideal.

Are they snowflakes for it? Sure. But if that's the case, that term is a potentially transitory state of being. Put the same people with a hardened group of people like Baron and Rusty, working in terrible winter conditions outdoor to survive, and you'll find that a fair number step up (eventually), especially if dying is the alternative.

Our so-called greatest generation existed both because conditions and mindset were right, not just because of some genetic predisposition to greatness. Raise genetic clones of those people today, and they'd probably turn out a lot like today's people. Only potential exception is where BPA has reduced testosterone in more recent generations ;) I'm sure that does play a part in mindset.

If someone works outside and doesn't check the weather before going to work and dies wearing shorts in extreme cold, there shouldn't be any liability on anyone other than maybe the parents. And we should all feel grateful the person is no longer wasting perfectly good oxygen.

Today, not bad. High 20s. We just got buried with tons more snow again. Last week was - 20f with wind chill bringing it to - 40f for about 3 days. Had a lot of cars die and city emergency notices. This weekend is looking like more of the same type of weather. Just throw on another shirt under my coat and you're good to go.

I agree with you. However the counter argument is if that person goes outside because his company demands it of him/her, and they have not provided adequate information on cold protection in extremes, it falls on the company.

A lot of this liability didn't start off with bad intentions - it started off with unrestrained capitalism. Meat packing industry in the US circa 1920s profited greatly from fresh immigrants. Paid them pennies to work in insanely unsafe environments where one mistakes would cripple you. Grueling labor, performed for 16 hours at a time, in extreme heat or cold, because it was cheaper than actually making work safe.

Edit: Not to be mistaken for the fudge packing industry, where Zoren works currently. Much less grueling - he loves it there!

Loved that last part. :rofl2:

Where I'm at now. I see kids coming into work. And lasting about one week. They just walk away and not tell anyone. Just quit. :icon14: Had one tell me that he didn't want to get his hands dirty. Another told me that this job is below him. He expected a better job with more glamour. :icon14: It's these kids first jobs. They're working part time going to school. The store works their work schedule around their school schedule. And they hate it. :icon14: The one kid told me the only reason he is working is because his dad cut off the money. But mommy still gives him some. :icon14: Time to cut the nipple feeding.

Rusty, you have described my two nieces perfectly. They're both around 20 yo, and bloody helpless. :shakes head:

Kids now don't have a basic understanding of how things work. Like changing a tire. Most don't have a clue on where to start. I taught my daughter how to do it. I told her. I might not be around to help you. So you have to do things yourself. Be independent. Do for yourself. And she does. :tup:

Hey, wait a minute there... don't forget me... I'm hardened to... :p

haha my list wasn't meant to be an exclusive list of all the hardened people on the forum.

Zoren even PM'd me to let me know he was hard. Not sure he understood.

I wouldn't say hardern. You do what you have to do to put food on the table.

Anyone want to get sick. I just put over $30,000. worth of cordless power tools down a compactor. You name it. It went down. :shakes head:

Why????? Defective????

I get there are some nuances but it is absolutely not the employer's responsibility to inform the employee of the weather outside.

I mean if they ship you off to a camp in northern Canada in December without telling you at least to pack extreme cold weather gear, then sure. That's ridiculous. But if you work for AT&T fixing phone lines outside all day in Chicago and you don't bring your coat and freeze to death during a blizzard. That's on one person: you.

Exactly. But it's turned into unrestrained legislation and litigation :shakes head: