Is Nissan retiring the Z after 2018
 

So I came across this article and thought I would pass it along. In my younger years I owned a 260Z, sold it, the Z eventually disappeared and then emerged again to much excitement. I bought a 370Z last year and have loved driving it. Now there is discussion it might be going away again. Time will tell I guess.


https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...-might-be-dead

A Nismo Leaf? Really?

:rofl2:

Oh stop it!! The Leaf !!! LOL.

Its been dead since 2015 when they canceled any further development. They're just keeping up production since its relatively cheap.

I say just live for today, enjoy your Z now and don't worry about it not keeping up with other brands, because pure electric motivation is coming quick and everything else now (like Acura NSX , Corvette, Mustang, Camaro, etc., etc., you name it) will become obsolete. When they do suddenly hit the market in the next 10 years or so, everyone will want one. GM has
already said they're committed to going all electric. I read an automotive article suggesting 2018 may be the last year for the Corvette because very little has been said by GM about it's future. There has been talk for several years suggesting it will become a mid engine design. But why should they invest all those development resources into something that will last for only a few years. When it finally goes electric (if it's still around as a "Vette"), the motors will be at each wheel. The change is coming people, and it's coming fast! The all electric Chevy Bolt is a top pick for best small CUV by Motor Week, among others. And the Tesla Model S with "Ludicrous" setting is 0.2sec. quicker 0 to 60 then the '17 Corvette ZO6 with 650hp. And its a 4 door sedan!

Coming...its here! The fastest cars on and off track are all hybrids or electric powered and have been for a few years now.

Electric will never fully replace I.C.E's, but they will replace a fair amount of the market. Reducing C02 emissions in city areas has massive economic implications for everyone, never mind on a social level. More than likely, the remaining exotic sports cars will all be hybrids at the very least by 2025. I find this to be a better overall package anyways.

If Nissan was serious about replacing all its normal ecobox cars with i.c.e's with electric motors, they need to do it now. My cousin bought a POS versa a few years ago and the engine is absolute dog schit and its falling apart. She doesn't know a single thing about car maintenance or engines, and it's not just her. There are several people like her that need a simple electric car for commuting with no hassle maintenance. The only remaining caveat about electric cars now is range and charge time compared to refueling. This isn't even really a problem considering you can technically charge a battery anywhere.

I'd love to see Nissan/Infiniti replace all these boring cheap I4 engines with electric motors, as long as the produce a bullet proof sport engine for the remaining sport cars like the Z and Gt-r.

Allow us petrolheads to have the pure sport engines at a lower cost instead of these half-arsed engines that are adopted over several chassis.

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that last point. There really is no upside to continuing with the i.c.e. I mean....multiple reciprocating parts and pieces in a device (gas pump) that was invented in the 18th century? And must run on some type of carbon based fuel? Nah. There's an all electric model (can't remember make and model) thats on the market now that gets over 300 miles per charge. Battery development is moving quickly. Photo-voltaic cells are getting more efficient and electric power generation will become cheaper.

Battery range is based on battery capacity. Longer range is ultimately higher weight compared too a similar or greater range of a i.c.e engine with less fuel load. Gas engines are significantly more efficient than engines made back in the 18th century. Thats a horrible argument considering electric motors & batteries were around in the 18th century and have gone through similar advancements. I. C. E engines are still the most effective over distance and time.

And contrary to this age old argument of advancements in photovoltaic and battery technology. The efficiency in either hasn't increased much in over a decade. Just the rampant growth in usage has increased. The efficiency has come in the way of production and implementation. Not the chemistry.

And hydrocarbon/ethanol fuels still have one of the greatest energy densities on the market. Thus the reason ice engines have reigned Supreme over such a long time.

While I agree Change is the only permanent thing in this word. I certainly believe ICE engines as engineers call it now. The last time I heard they call it carbureted engines lol I guess that gives away my age. It would take a lot of money hungry politicians to pass a law completely banning petrol gas powered cars. As far as GM is concerned Corvette is a separate segment or dividion, more so like (the GTR for Nissan or M cars for BMW).

Corvette represents American muscle car heritage there is still a bigger segment of baby boomers and serior American cater to the brand. I may agree that the majority of their portfolio would be on electric cars as future younger generations would probably cater to it as much they favor their iphones, electronic gadgets...plus the government initiative to give discounts to electric cars vs gas guzzlers tax.

I dont think all the muscle cars you mentioned would eventually be obsolete, they might offer a hybrid but that would only be a nitch market for the affluent.

Like I said the money hungry politicians and the Shiek of Saudi Arabia and the likes of the Bush's in Texas. They would still need to feed their hunger for more wealth to ban completely petrol engines.

But If does happens I will be glad that Im no longer in that generation of this world. Im happy for today. I let the future worry for itself.

And to you MaysEffect I enjoy reading your post you seem so knowledge with cars and motor racing history. I like the way you do your write up and choices of vocabulary. You can have a career in motor car journalism too!

A compliment from a petrol head almost 2x your age.:tiphat: cheers!

The battery replacement cost for most current electric vehicles puts them in a category of not affordable for most people. The manufacturer stated cost of battery replacement for a Tesla is approximately $12,000, however, after further reading the actual cost is reported to be between $30,000 - $40,000. Since I do not own one I'm not sure of accuracy of this report but it is worth consideration if you're interested in buying one. Also, the common number for battery replacement seems to be around 8 years. What are people going to do if they don't want to pay for a new battery pack, keep it for 7 years and trade it in for a new one? Therefore keeping a perpetual monthly car payment? No for me. I prefer debt free. And Yes, if you can afford a Tesla you can probably afford to replace the battery pack but again the majority of the population cannot. I'm all for owning an electric car but for me they have a long way to go. I realize most manufacturers want to jump on the band wagon since it is obvious this is the future of vehicles, BUT, there must be a balance. So hopefully good ole fashioned gas powered sports cars will not be abandoned for some time. They (manufacturers) still need to dance with the one that brung'em.

As more and more EVs are made and sold, the price of batteries should drop. Economy of scale.

I'm sure you are absolutely correct SouthArk, it's like every other new technology that has been introduced through the years. The price starts out high and decreases with time, however, with the ease of information access these days most people can quickly figure out the cost comparison of operating a gas car to an electric car over an 8 year period. Currently the replacement of a battery pack, from most manufacturers, exceeds the cost of operating a gas car over the same time period. So as long as this is the case most people will buy the gas car. So the pressure is on development of a more cost efficient battery replacement pack OR a battery pack that costs the same as it does now but the replacement time frame is greater...... and is equal to the cost of operating a gas powered vehicle during the same time frame. Once that happens then new gas powered cars will disappear.

Ok has anyone of you guys watched E-Formula races?

Did any of you guys actually enjoyed watching it? Honestly
I fell asleep 30 mins after the green light!

I’ll rather watch Nickelodeon with my kid!! Lol

In what way was the race less engaging than the races you normally watch and don't fall asleep to?

I watched E-Formula one time and I just couldn't stick with it. The cars are fast and have crazy amounts of acceleration but without the engine noise I just felt like something was wrong the whole time.

Regarding "E" cars though.... if I could afford a Tesla Roadster I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Tesla is definitely moving in the direction of the future. I think that company has clearly demonstrated that you can have power and a reasonable amount of run time/distance per charge.

Have you seen the drag races with the stripped down Tesla vs (you name it)?? It's rare that the Tesla gets beat.

Personally, I think the people that have most of the money in this world will continue to keep the gasoline engine alive. With the advancements that have already been made in emissions reduction with the catalytic converters and such... gas is burning cleaner and cleaner. I'm sure science with continue to improve the emissions and that will calm down the environmentalists and keep the mighty dollar (Insert whatever currency here) being the true driving force behind it all.

Well have you actually watched a live E-Formula race Vs any races that are powered by race fuel engines? Before I answer your question.

I've watched an E-Formula race. My initial interest was more from a novelty standpoint than actually wanting to watch the race for an extended amount of time. I found it to be fascinating but for me, whatever the reason, it was not as exciting as F1. Maybe it was the lack of engine noise, maybe it was other aspects to the race but it just didn't have the same appeal. Just something about a ICE growling out big HP.

I have not. I don't regularly watch any kind of racing, though, I don't see how my experiences affect your perceptions. :confused:

Forget all the "retiring" crap.
I have been a life-long Z guy.

The current Z34&the great Z33 are fantastic vehicles to cost effectively mold into
what you want.
There are an abundance of parts available at affordable prices to make the car be
what you want.
I've been fortunate to own both a Z33&Z34.
My 34 is pretty much unmodified accept for some body CF.
On the contrary,the Z33 is very much removed from stock.
Besides max Nismo upgrades,carbon aero parts sets it apart.
An original/one owner 350z,with mods ,I am asked,if this is the NEW Z...

Don't worry,plenty of room to upgrade your Z at a cost effective scale.
Should you desire.

So you dont watch any kind of racing? How about horse racing???

So tell me then what was your experience so I will know how it does not or affect my perceptions? Then I will tell my first hand experience watching live a petrol race car series versus a Formula E races. So I will be fair to you in explaining my boredom watching the Formula E races.


Besides I never said formula E doesn’t have the same engagement as other car races would have. I believe some of the well known Indy and European drivers drives at the Formula E series,

Btw you sold your Z was it because the sound of the exhaust too loud for your or the Z is too slow for you?

Just curious.

:facepalm:

Efficiency comes with a increased cost. The "science" is already here to make emissions lower than tree hungers can possibly imagine. Formula 1 cars already have a thermal energy efficiency of 50%, compared to normal road cars that are around 20-30%. But the technology behind F1 is too expensive. Having a car with this level of efficiency would likely cost way too much or would be way too slow for most people (weight being a major proponent to efficiency). Or on the flip side of using exotic unstable materials, it would be too dangerous. So we are pretty much locked into this fine window of materials and efficiency due to cost and safety.

Electric cars are already far ahead in this realm (around 75-85% thermal efficiency), but the energy density is far behind gas fuel. So there is generally a stalemate between the two technologies. We don't need rich people to keep one or the other alive. The battle within itself is enough to keep both going on well.

Electric cars are however the future for metropolitan commuting. Keeping emissions at the lowest level possible in our cities has huge health benefits. This is what we should all be paying attention to. Nothing else is relevant as chemical mining for battery fuel and magnetic motors are equally environmentally impacting compared to mining gas.

If we could take our v6 engines to a level of efficiency as a F1 car, it would not only make more power but would produce less emissions. But this comes at a cost of reliability. So trade offs are always an issue. Would an electric motor swap make more power or get us better mileage? Its arguable still.

Lastly on the topic of hypothetical powerplants, there is generally no return in investments for companies to produce powerplants with greater effieciency then what its currently at, thus we may not see these vast improvements unless there is a major shift in chemical design in the coming years with similar pricing and implementation.

For the longest time companies would never have considered electric motors given the trade off of increased weight for typical batteries and extreme cost if Lithium. Now that Lithium production has increased tenfold compared to a decade ago, the cost has come into a reasonable window for it to be used mainstream. I'm still curious too what exactly allowed this boom in production, but we can thank whatever it was for the growing use of electric technology.

I would happily swap my Z's drivetrain for the drivetrain out of a Model S. Nissan just needs to figure out that electric cars need to be fun, then bring the Z car back that way. Problem is every company except Tesla makes s*** slow electric cars. Nismo Leaf at least attempts to not be ugly and boring, but 8 second 0-60 isn't enough to make me give up my Z. Now the original Tesla Roadster on the other hand. I'd take that over the Z. or at the same time, or idk, at least it makes it a tough choice.

:iagree:

Not really a logical comparison. The leaf is a $20k ecobox, Tesla makes $60k+ luxury sports cars. The motors are bigger the battery capacity is significantly larger and the power conversion is greater. The fastest top of the line tesla is over 120k$. Its like comparing a Versa to a Gt-r. Just because they share similar technology doesn't mean much. Ultimately large corporations can't/won't take the risk like Tesla is doing investing unnecessary amounts of money into a different business model.

This is a pretty daft argument for the average joe, but Tesla's are not the fastest cars overall. They are fastest where it counts (0-60mph). Outside of this, supercars of similar price have no problem running it down to 80-140+mph. Again, something that is relatively unimportant in the real world on regulated streets considering anything over 80mph should be jail time in America. Luckily it's just a expensive fine at the least.

It's happening. CNBC this morning:

"Toyota to make over 10 battery EV models in early 2020s"

Published 10 Hours Ago
Reuters:

"Toyota Motor on Monday said it will market more than 10 all-electric vehicle models globally in the early 2020s.

"The investment to develop their batteries is likely to exceed $13 billion through 2030.
The world's second-biggest automaker by sales said it needed to accelerate the pace of battery development."

Apparently they plan on partnering with Panasonic for battery development and supply.

Not a fan of the use of the word "development", portrays the outlook that they are making some new technology. In reality all they're doing is implementing a current design in a form factor most suitable for their cars.

Electric cars are coming faster then what we think. The problems I see for now with the electric car is range, charging time, battery replacement costs, and inter-structure for recharging. They will figure some of this out, but not all of it.

I drive cross country alot. Mostly from Pittsburgh to Denver and back. Takes about 14 hrs one way. How long will it take me with an electric car? Days? Close to a week? :eek: I get about 400 miles out of a tank of gas. Electric is limited to what? 200 miles or so. Takes me about 10 minutes to fill up. How long does it take to recharge the battery? Hours? How many place are there for recharging on a interstate? I've only seen one place. And it was close to a city. You won't find any on I70 or I80. So much for taking a long road trip in the future.

Battery replacement for now is about 1/3 the cost of the car. Because of this. Low end families are going to be hurting. You'll end up with less people driving. And what are you going to do with the old batteries? If you're in an accident. Now you have to fear from getting executed. Survive the wreck, then get zapped getting out of the car. :eek:

Another problem. Being in power generation for years. Our grid right now can not handle a massive increase in electric cars today. Transmission lines will have to be up-graded and new lines put up. And guess what. You will have the N.I.M.B.Y group yelling about the new lines. So until you fix that problem. You may be looking at brown outs.

And lets not forget about the big one. TAXES. Instead of paying road taxes with each gallon of gas. You will be paying for each mile driven. Two ways of what the gov't is thinking. Pay at the time of each recharge. Or pay yearly for each mile. That will be a big bill!

:iagree:

No horse racing either. I watch some track and field during the Olympics...lol.

Like I said, I don't have much experience watching racing. I've done a little autocross and enjoy watching car reviews where they track the cars but I've never been into spending hours watching cars actually race.

I suppose I assumed that you weren't as engaged since you fell asleep...lol.

I sold the Z because I am a financial idiot and thought I could afford it when I couldn't. I'd like nothing more than to get back into a Z but am trying to get my **** together financially and quit making stupid choices. I think the Z sounds decent, though, there are obviously cars that sound better. I do, however, prefer quality sound over loud for loud's sake and try to protect my hearing as much as possible.

As you say, they'll figure it out. Right now, with just a few EV models on the market, one is already getting over 300 miles per charge. Tesla must be confident because they are about to produce an over-the-road, all electric rig. (You've probably seen the concept photos).

Motor Week showed a battery pak replacement "station" where the vehicle drives over, and is positioned over, a lift that extends up to the battery pack, lowers it below surface, and raises a new fully charged battery pack into place under the car. It worked slick, and was fast. That's one possible solution besides "quick charge" stations that exist now for Tesla vehicles.

As far as our power grid not being able to carry the new load, that hasn't stopped our gov't from promoting and subsidizing more wind power generator fields that can't be utilized during peak wind conditions. All because the power grid can't handle it. (I hate looking at those things, they just clutter the view of the countryside IMO. Oh yah, and they kill endangered bird species:icon17:). But again, the power grid will get upgraded one way or the other.

I think all of the problems you list will be solved. They'll have to be. And Uber and Lyft may take care of the transportation requirements of those who can't afford all the costs of owning a vehicle. Plus, they'll be self driving.....another technology that's coming fast and furious. Its a brave new world.

With the power grid. The N.I.M.B.Y group. (Not In My Back Yard) Has already shot down over 4 dozen transmission line up-grades, new lines, and sub-stations in the last 10 years that I know of.

Wind and solar depend on gov't subsidies. Without that. They would not be cost efficient. They would operate at a lost. Nuke is the cheapest to produce electric, followed by natural gas, coal. Wind and solar are the most expensive.

I seen the truck video. And the comments from the truckers I have talked to. They all wonder if it will go 500,000 miles before needing heavy maintenance. And are scared of what a battery replacement would cost. They seem to think that the truck would be better suited to inter-city delivery then long haul.

Not impossible but, IMNSHO, it's highly unlikely that there will be any major upgrades to the electrical grid.
Running more long-distance lines is very expensive. In many urban areas, there's not enough room to run more lines. More generating capacity is expensive and takes a long time to build.
And then you have to deal with the NIMBYs.

My prediction is that much of the recharging power will come from solar panels or other "non-grid" sources.

YMMV

A 600 to 700 MW natural gas combine cycle 2 on 1 (2 gas turbines and 1 steam turbine) power plant takes 18 months to build and costs about $500,000,000 depending on area. They have to be close to water for cooling, gas supply, and grid hook up. Farther away, the higher the cost. If it runs 24/7 at close to max load. It will pay for it's self in about 4 years. Getting permits is another thing. That may take years.

Wind turbines produce about 3 MW's each on a good day (the new ones, 300ft). Cost about $250,000 each. Takes 30 years to pay for it's self. Plus they have to be built where the wind conditions are just right. Low wind will not produce enough electric. Too high of wind will over-speed the turbines, and kill them. When wind speeds are over around 25 mph. They lock the blades in place so that they don't spin, and turn them to a neutral position. So now it's not producing anything. Most of the wind farms are in the mid-west. I'm waiting to see a tornado wipe a farm out. Then see what the experts say.

Electric cars and all... This is why our government should be getting ahead of all this, new technologies to improve power generation and transmission, not going back to coal and drilling for more oil. The US is going to be left behind with China and others taking the lead. We just have to get used to idea of smelling hot electronics coming from a car instead of the smell of oil, gas, and exhaust. An electric Z with the acceleration of a Tesla and with the same range would be awesome!

If it has a range of 400 miles, recharge in about 15 minutes, run and handled like my Nismo. I'm all for it. :driving:

Do you have 200k? :tiphat: