For the Firearms guys
 

So- my wife and I are interested in leaning more about firearms, effectively we want to have one in our home for personal protection. Understanding that running to the local gun store and picking up the largest caliber would not be the best decision - let alone safe - the question becomes wear to start.

From what I've gathered, the smartest thing we could do is pick up a .22 handgun and a range membership and practice, practice (practice) and get comfortable.

Any suggestions? We're trying to go about this in the best (safest) way possible. I'm open.

Thanks!

At many ranges you can rent guns to shoot... I would suggest that to start. Try a .22 first then something a little bigger and so on. If you find a decent place and tell them you don't know much they'll usually offer extra instruction, or point you to a class or something. Which might not be a bad idea if you really know nothing...

:iagree:100 per cent!

Also incase you over looked this:

http://www.the370z.com/lounge-off-to...-firearms.html

+1 on starting with .22...lol I first started off with a .45 :tup:

Yeah my first owned hand gun was a .45acp but I did alot of research and alot of shooting of different guns. For safety stick with a double stage trigger and by all means please attend a class. for those offering a .22 thats really weak and i would recommend to start with a 9mm as it is very easy to use and very comfortable. Remember this is for home protection not target shooting so you eventually will want a larger caliber. A .22 will just piss a robber off and probably get you killed... a 9mm will stun them and do some good damage. A .40 or .45acp will decimate the robber causing SIGNIFICANT tissue damage! .50AE will give them a heart attach and will be the wrath of God raining down on them! Not only that but anyone within 30ft without hearing protection will be deaf! Im not kidding about the deaf part... those Mothers are LOUD! If you have specific questions feel free to ask there are many of us here on the board who are well versed in firearms.

I personally like to use my 6.8spc M4 Carbine as my home defense. I was at the range last weekend and in an unsupported standing position got 20/21 head shots rapid fire @ 25yds all within the fatal triangle or just a tad to the left :D

Remember practice make perfect...

yeah I understand since its just a .22 but it does help. I put two friend girls behind my .45 for their first time, although they hit jack squat (the shortest range the outdoor range we went to had was 25yds :icon14:) they liked it. Luckly a fellow shooter let them shoot his ruger mk.III which def. help them with getting the sight alighment right w/o the huge kick of a .45. Since then I bought a .22 and have taught another friend to shoot properly with it before handing them the .45.

i dont recommend a .22, at all for self defense. simply not enough stopping power. unless its a well placed shot, its not going to be a cut and dry stop.

how large are you hands? this plays a big role in being comfortable with a handgun.

also, i strongly recommend a glock. virtually maintenance free, fairly cheap, very reliable and easy to shoot well.

for me, i shoot better with a glock .45 than with a .40. simply put, the .45 fits my hands better, and the recoil is more of a "push" than a "snap".

based on that, i would choose on of the two above. i have shot more handguns than most people have/will, and i still go back to the good old glock. I trust my life with my glock .45 every day, and feel confident in doing so.

edit- based on that you want it for only home defense, a shotgun is very hard to beat. very good stopping power, and you only have to get "close". i would recommend a 870 remington....

You want to have one in your home for protection? Hmm....I have a loaded gun in every room in my house. Guess that's a bit of overkill, huh? ;)

In all seriousness though, you might also want to take a look at the Sig P226. It's a 9mm, shoots very smoothly recoil-wise (which is important for a beginner), and it's good quality. Glocks are good too as far as economical and reliable guns go, but the lack of a manual safety or heavy DA trigger on Glocks makes me a little nervous when it comes to novice gun owners. Another nice thing about Sigs is that they usually ship with night sights standard. You can get Glocks with night sights, but they usually ship without them. I wouldn't bother with a .22 for defense.

Here's a link for the Sig 226: http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/Sho...7&productid=90

I miss my .45, I def. shot better with it than my xdm9, I'm just not liking the snappy-ness hence my arms are pushing the gun before the striker hits the primer.

I would like this for HD :tup:
http://www.shootersdepot.com/images/...xtrashorty.jpg

What's your guys' opinion on revolvers? Specifically, the S&W 686 .357? I'm going to guess it's not really the best choice for a first timer? :D

http://www.impactguns.com/store/medi...mith_26266.jpg

IMO only disadvantages are that some have limited number of rounds (although I think there is one that holds 8) and reloading is slow unless you have speed loaders and moon clips. Some advantages are that they are pretty good when it comes to front sight tracking since you dont have to deal with the sight reciprocating back and forth, and that they handle bigger calibers well. Plus you look like a bad *** when you pull this out of you back pocket http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/smith_500_10.jpg:bowrofl::tup:

edit- based on that you want it for only home defense, a shotgun is very hard to beat. Everyone knows the sound of a ratcheting shotgun. I hear that sound, I'm Hittin the deck!

Damn, that gun brings back memories. I think revolvers are great guns, easy to maintain, and are simpler than semi-autos. I've shot revolvers and SA's and know how to handle both for different reasons, but for the past 10 years I've been carrying a SA.

I would highly recommend a revolver not just for your first gun but as a keeper. Point and shoot is all it takes. If you want it for home defense, that's the way to go. Just be sure that you have it locked up and hidden when you're not taking it out of the house, and I would even go so far as to suggest you learn how to carry it on your hip or wherever when in the house.

One never knows if there's a B&E that's going to happen while you're home. I know of a fed that got killed at his house by an escaped convict. Sucks that the convict got the first shot off.

I kept thinking that a .22 is a great assassin weapon. :icon18:

As for the shotgun, that's also a good one since you don't have to be very accurate to make your point. However, if you don't know how to handle it or load it quickly, it won't do you any good.

The shotgun is another great investment. Get the 870 and find a rifle range to practice becoming proficient at shooting the shotgun. Learn to do tactical reloads, and you'll definitely scare the bejeezus out of an intruder. LOL

I wouldn't start with a .22. That's a little bit weak. At least try a .38 or a 9mm first, preferably a reliable, comfortable gun. For home protection, however, I would personally recommend a 12 gauge, but that's just me. If you are at the point where you are desperate enough to aim a loaded weapon at someone with possible intention to shoot, you want to GET THE JOB DONE right the first time (shot).

I should have clarified - we're interested in a gun for home defense - but not before both of us are comfortable. I think we'll take a trip to the local range this weekend and see how friendly the staff is and go from there.

yup...

This 'el getter done!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._2_barrels.png

If you are looking at home defense only a shotgun is the way to go. If you want a pistol the smallest that I would have is a 9mm. I have two S&W M&Ps and love them.

O.F. Mossberg & Sons, Inc. - Firearms, Shotguns, Rifles, Accessories, and Precision Machining

Looks a lot like my shotgun, but mine's a Remington 870 that I bought from the state police. They were cleaning out their closet....lol

How are they accuracy wise? Can you get more consistent shots off of a SA at the range?

It depends on the length of the barrel, the bullet, how you hold the gun, your trigger control, etc. If you anticipate the recoil, you'll never be accurate. SA's are accurate, especially the smaller calibers like the 9mm.

I was pretty accurate and fast with the .38 revolver, but that took a lot of training. Now all I shoot are SA's. My .40 Sig P229 and P239 are like cannons. Damn those federal cartridge bullets. I'm not so accurate with these guns, but I have good days and bad days.

lol, any experience with the H&K USP's?

I shot about a hundred or so rounds through it a few years ago. I liked it. Pretty easy gun to handle and not as wild and bucky like the Sig. I think my Sigs will be phased out for the H&K, but that'll be a while yet.

No one has mentioned the fact that while a .22 has less stopping power, a 9mm or higher will punch through walls and easily kill anyone in the vicinity if you happen to take a crazy shot and miss the perp before hitting him/her. Do you have any children in the house? Are you in an apartment complex or have neighbors nearby? If so I would recommend just a shotgun, as that is strictly a close-range weapon that won't cause too much collateral damage outside of the immediate room you are in.

Furthermore, saying that a .22 will only piss someone off is a bit of Hollywood if you ask me. Given that the majority of crooks are just normal people down on their luck an desperate (not career criminals) anyone getting shot with anything would be enough to incapacitate them.

Finally, if you're going to shoot someone in your house or on your property, make sure you kill them. I know it sounds harsh but really there should be no reason to shoot someone unless your own life is in mortal peril (i.e. s/he also has a gun or other deadly weapon with imminent threat to use it). If they're still alive when the police recover them they could potentially sue you for damages, and you would have to then prove that you were within rights to shoot them. It's just additional legal stuff to deal with. Note too that even if they're dead the cops can bring charges against you as well if they suspect the shooting was more than just self-defense.

I still stand by the statement of "A .22 will just piss a criminal off"

Gaiiden have you ever been shot with anything? (rubber bullets, paintballs over 300fps, bb or pellet guns)

They hurt like hell but for the most part it just pisses you off if your intent is to rob or kill someone it will not deter the offender and in fact may infuriate the situation... Now I have both a handgun (H&K 45) and rifle (16" POF 6.8spc M4) both with night capable sights. I personally rather use my AR than my pistol mainly for the fact that I can do this with my AR at 25yds rapid fire in a unsupported standing position in 5 secs:
(2 clips= 1x10rd & 1x 30rd) a total of 21 shots fired & 1 reload
http://www.the370z.com/members/bulli...6-img-0578.jpg

20/21 hit perfectly with one stray
full size of target:
http://www.the370z.com/members/bulli...7-img-0577.jpg

The head measures from chin to top of skull 8" and I find hitting targets with the AR much easier than the pistol but then again I shoot alot more with the AR than the pistol... *I am also Ironing out some bad habits with the pistol too* keep this in mind no matter what you use for home defense make sure it is something that you are accurate with!!!

I practice 3 taps when I go to the range 2 to the chest 1 to the skull. That isnt the hard part. the hard part is getting to the point where you are hitting within an inch of your previous shots. Also remember you want to stay low and behind cover at all times when approaching a burgler or offender. For my tower matches we practice both strong hand and weak hand shooting...cause you never know when you will need to shoot lefty...

I got a S&W M&P .45 last year and my GF, who has never fired a weapon, fires it just fine at the range. I thought about the 9mm, but if my GF gets only 1 or 2 shots off on a perp, I want them to count.

I absolutely love my .45.

Remington 870....best home defense gun...anyone can use it, it's pretty much newbie proof...so long they understand it's a pump and not a semi auto.

Yes 22s have less stopping power and unless used properly, will generally just piss someone off, although a 22 mag would ******* hurt. a 22 long rifle, unless placed properly will not stop someone in their tracks and most who are down on their luck and breaking into a house are probably so full of adrenaline, they won't notice right away...

the 22 caliber bullet has been used though the years by assassins world wide, but at close range (point blank).

Well, I would think that if someone were to react and shoot someone else, unless they've done LOTS of training, they're going to be panicky and unload a clip as fast as possible. Whether it's .22 or higher, that's going to cause some damage. Ok, one .22 improperly placed can just piss someone off, but a whole clip?

So I guess all I should really say is that if you're going to go with a handgun, make sure you can keep yourself under control so you don't spray bullets, and always aim for center of mass.

Again, this is only to prevent you from killing/injuring someone else. Can't tell you how many stories I see about a random bullet shot from down the block enters a house and hits someone inside. One idiot shot his wall to create a hole for his satellite dish wire/mount and killed his wife outside working in the garden. Yea, I wish I had made that last one up.

Sig Sauer 2022 9mm Night Sights 2 Grips w/Rail Mounted Laser for Sale at Buds Gun Shop $469.00

Sounds like a good deal?

Yes. The laser is junk, but even without it that's a good price.

I think lasers are overrated for civilians. Seriously, what would you need that for? You would have to buy a holster that would fit in.

The gun is fine, but don't get ripped by adding the laser.

What does the 'civilian' distinction have to do with it? I don't think it matters if you're a civilian vs. police or military. Regardless of which role one is in, if you're unfortunate enough to find yourself in a situation where you need to use lethal force, the need to get on target quickly is the same. Granted, civilians shouldn't find themselves in that situation as often (hopefully). But my point is that if you're a civilian and need to shoot someone, your need to do so effectively is not lessened by the fact that you're a civilian. I mean, it's not like we want cops and soldiers to be accurate but civilians to just 'spray and pray' right? :ugh:

Not if the laser is properly sighted, and the individual performs practice shooting. It may be "overrated" in the gun magazines, but it does have it's benefits.
The holster doesn't cost that much more.

Check these out: Crimson Trace | Laser Sight Grips for Guns

no bulky laser, everything fits in the grip. As other have posted, a laser is alot better especially at night when a perp is about to attacj you and you have little time to look down your sights.

I do. I have the full size USP in .45 caliber. I love that gun. It's not the prettiest gun though, but whatever gets the job done...

I've probably shot over two thousand rounds through it and I haven't had any issues with it. The recoil of the .45 on the HK full size isn't very bad at all.

Sigs are good guns too. My sister and another friend have a P226 (i think) in .40 caliber that shoots very smoothly.

You can't really go wrong with a Sig or an HK, but if you're on a budget, you can also look at the Springfield XD. I've shot them once at a range and I thought they were just ok. Nothing to write home about, but for the price, they get the job done and they get great reviews.

Shotgun also works. I prefer to leave the stock on it though. Shotgun is cheap and effective...

I also would not buy a .22 for your purpose for the reasons everyone already stated.

I recommend a 12gauge for home defense if you're not worried about neighbors and children from over penetration.
After owning one and using it on various targets.. I'm afraid to shoot somebody with it.. it's just too vicious.
Same with my m1 garand. 30-06 will probably go through the next 6 houses before it stops.

My daily carry is a Kimber 3" 1911 with ct grips. With the laser I don't even have to bother aiming to nail clay pigeons on the ground at 20 feet.. they're about heart sized, so the accuracy is more than enough at that range.. I don't expect to really be able to take aimed shots in a situation that'll truly matter to my life.

Go rent all sorts of guns before you buy.

To me, guns are like sports cars, you can get one in any flavor you wish.

What do you mean you don't even have to bother aiming? You're aiming with the laser, aren't you? :confused:

I have one for fun and its great, you can shoot it for one cent/round, great for getting a lot of practice shooting w/out costing you a fortune. But probably doesn't have the stopping power you would want from a larger caliber. But I would hate to get shot by it.

i have a bb gun does that count?

or should i just be like the Govenor and just...

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3080/stfuz.jpg