Nissan 370Z Forum  

Increased MPG

Originally Posted by Chuck33079 My wild-*** guess is that the cooler charge allows the ecu to use less fuel as a safety margin. At the end of the day, it's

Go Back   Nissan 370Z Forum > Nissan 370Z Tech Area > Engine & Drivetrain > Intake/Exhaust


Like Tree14Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-22-2014, 06:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Jordo!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: nirvana
Posts: 6,394
Drives: 2023 NATM
Rep Power: 418
Jordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 View Post
My wild-*** guess is that the cooler charge allows the ecu to use less fuel as a safety margin. At the end of the day, it's probably all statistical noise and the gains all come from the tune leaning things out.
If one of the factors that affects target AFR is IAT's then that would certainly be true.

I think it gets confusing in part because power and MPG are kind of unrelated issues when you get down to it.

You could coast downhill consuming very little fuel and engine power, and improve MPG, or you could destroy a new set of tires with a smoky burn out, consume tons of fuel and produce lots of power (or, well, torque more precisely), go nowhere, and have terrible MPG.

Fuel consumption comes into play on the basis of fuel consumed to make so much torque over a period of time, but it doesn't necessarily translate into distance traveled.

That's why gearing and drag (either in terms of tire inflation, weight, or the ability to deflect wind) all wind up being such surprisingly important factors in MPG (those little plastic wind deflectors in front of the front tires come to mind...).

That's also why city MPG is always lower than highway MPG; taking off from a dead stop (i.e., stop and go driving) requires more energy than rolling along with the help of inertia.

I don't know about heat losses related to airflow, but losses as heat matter definitely in some aspects of MPG. A fluid coupling trans, for example, will lose power in the form of heat, and therefore have a poorer MPG than a solid connection to the driveshaft operating under the same conditions (although gearing and time spent in a given gear will affect MPG too).
Chuck33079 likes this.
__________________
Enjoy it. Destroy it.

Last edited by Jordo!; 09-22-2014 at 06:08 PM.
Jordo! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2014, 06:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
SouthArk370Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South Arkansas
Posts: 8,435
Drives: 2014 Challenger
Rep Power: 324198
SouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordo! View Post
If one of the factors that affects target AFR is IAT's then that would certainly be true.
The IAT is located in the MAF and used by the MAF circuit as part of the density calculations. Details are in the FSM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordo! View Post
I think it gets confusing in part because power and MPG are kind of unrelated issues when you get down to it. ...
Good explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordo! View Post
I don't know about heat losses related to airflow, but losses as heat matter definitely in some aspects of MPG. A fluid coupling trans, for example, will lose power in the form of heat, and therefore have a poorer MPG than a solid connection to the driveshaft operating under the same conditions (although gearing and time spent in a given gear will affect MPG too).
Any effect on MPG/efficiency due to cooling from airflow is pretty insignificant. Keep in mind that the air is "cold" only until the piston starts up.

Any heat loss means less efficiency. The "perfect" engine wouldn't have a radiator (and the drive wheel would be bolted to the crank). Some of the hyper-milers run their engines very hot, but that will lead to detonation problems (plus increased wear) for a "normal" driver.
Jordo! and Chuck33079 like this.
__________________
Steering Lock Links - Search The370Z Bookmarklet - FSM @ NICOclub
Mankind has progressed past the need for war but we haven't evolved that far. - NachoMahma
SouthArk370Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2014, 06:38 PM   #18 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Orlando
Posts: 46
Drives: 14' 370z Tour/Sp AT
Rep Power: 11
SlowRollin will become famous soon enoughSlowRollin will become famous soon enough
Default

Sounds like I need to lighten my foot a bit and enjoy the ride, thanks guys!
SlowRollin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2014, 06:47 PM   #19 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
SouthArk370Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South Arkansas
Posts: 8,435
Drives: 2014 Challenger
Rep Power: 324198
SouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowRollin View Post
Sounds like I need to put my toenails in the radiator and enjoy the ride, thanks guys!
Fixed

Edit: There was a real-time MPG monitor in my '09 Touring; if you have that, you may find it helpful. Or get an app for monitoring different variables. Also check out some of the hyper-miling sites. I doubt if anyone here would go to the extremes that they do, but there is still a lot of good info.
__________________
Steering Lock Links - Search The370Z Bookmarklet - FSM @ NICOclub
Mankind has progressed past the need for war but we haven't evolved that far. - NachoMahma

Last edited by SouthArk370Z; 09-22-2014 at 06:57 PM.
SouthArk370Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2014, 05:46 PM   #20 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
dmhenderson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,930
Drives: AWD TT 370z
Rep Power: 26
dmhenderson is a splendid one to beholddmhenderson is a splendid one to beholddmhenderson is a splendid one to beholddmhenderson is a splendid one to beholddmhenderson is a splendid one to beholddmhenderson is a splendid one to beholddmhenderson is a splendid one to beholddmhenderson is a splendid one to behold
Default

I can say with some certainty that a supercharger and upgraded injectors/fuel pump do not help your gas mileage so you can cross those off the list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jordo! likes this.
__________________
dmhenderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2014, 11:47 AM   #21 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Orlando
Posts: 46
Drives: 14' 370z Tour/Sp AT
Rep Power: 11
SlowRollin will become famous soon enoughSlowRollin will become famous soon enough
Default

How about this.... HFC and CBE. Better flow but no change to the air/fuel mixture. Nice performance increase too? Of course, Fast Intentions seems like the winner for both parts.
SlowRollin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2014, 03:10 PM   #22 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Jordo!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: nirvana
Posts: 6,394
Drives: 2023 NATM
Rep Power: 418
Jordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond reputeJordo! has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowRollin View Post
How about this.... HFC and CBE. Better flow but no change to the air/fuel mixture. Nice performance increase too? Of course, Fast Intentions seems like the winner for both parts.
Better flow (i.e., more air) + same mixture ratio = more power and poorer MPG. It will add fuel to maintain same AFR via fuel trims to target. The faster exhaust can escape, the more air can be sucked in, so same result whichever side you improve flow on.

On a related note, everyone will make less power and have better MPG in the summer and more power/worse MPG in the winter, all else being equal...
__________________
Enjoy it. Destroy it.

Last edited by Jordo!; 09-28-2014 at 03:16 PM.
Jordo! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2014, 10:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Orlando
Posts: 46
Drives: 14' 370z Tour/Sp AT
Rep Power: 11
SlowRollin will become famous soon enoughSlowRollin will become famous soon enough
Default

Oh well. I guess I'll just get a gas card with a discount and floor this motha.
SlowRollin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Increased drag with wider tires Limeybastard Wheels & Tires 13 07-01-2014 02:57 AM
Increased amount of CHP activity ggiwin Southern California Region 40 10-23-2011 05:50 PM
Increased Valve Noise After Change To Amsoil iwasgointo Nissan 370Z General Discussions 40 09-01-2010 04:34 PM
Does increased Power increase Efficiency? Forrest Engine & Drivetrain 12 05-26-2009 06:22 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2