Custom ported and CNC throttle bodies, upper and lower manifolds by Synergy Composite

synolimit · 06-30-2014, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juan@Fontana

so how is the driving impression with the parts bolted on prior to tuning?

Like I said, it feels 100% stock and with so many bolt-ons I don't have a good feeling punching it. However just getting up and going a little not trying to go into open loop, it does feel like its snappier. Like at 1000-3400rpm it feels smooth then at 3500rpm it almost feels like a little turbo kick. Nothing much but a little peppier. I'm very pessimistic when it comes to mods and I try to be very objective since so many people add a part on then come on here and go "I gained a million HP", "my cars on rails now!" And all they did was add a sway bar or CBE. So any positive out of me is amazing haha. Just need to dyno now!!!

PS, I might dyno it as is since they'll have a wide band and be able to read knock. That why we can at least see the before and after of the tune.

lj909 · 06-30-2014, 03:18 PM

Awesome thread Syno! Awesome work!

Eclipz · 06-30-2014, 04:30 PM

You have a custom CAI right? One that matches your TB?

synolimit · 06-30-2014, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclipz

You have a custom CAI right? One that matches your TB?

Yeah it's custom.

Not really matching. The TB is 2.48" at its smallest ID point. On that is Z1 post tubes which go around the TB and any 2.5" OD pipe so I'd say their ID is more like 2.6". The sections of 2.5" OD pipe (like stillens cai) and oem MAF section are only 2.35" ID. Then like the MAF post tubes there's more silicon sections that will be 2.6" ID. So it's basically a roller coaster from start to finish.

Jordo! · 06-30-2014, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synolimit

Like I said, it feels 100% stock and with so many bolt-ons I don't have a good feeling punching it. However just getting up and going a little not trying to go into open loop, it does feel like its snappier. Like at 1000-3400rpm it feels smooth then at 3500rpm it almost feels like a little turbo kick. Nothing much but a little peppier. I'm very pessimistic when it comes to mods and I try to be very objective since so many people add a part on then come on here and go "I gained a million HP", "my cars on rails now!" And all they did was add a sway bar or CBE. So any positive out of me is amazing haha. Just need to dyno now!!!

PS, I might dyno it as is since they'll have a wide band and be able to read knock. That why we can at least see the before and after of the tune.

It's always in closed loop. There are target AFR maps at all load levels.

That doesn't mean you don't need a tune, but it shouldn't run consistently lean or rich -- it should attempt to trim towards the target, which on the OEM maps is around 11.9 at full tilt.

Head to the dyno!

Megan370z · 06-30-2014, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synolimit

Yeah it's custom.

Not really matching. The TB is 2.48" at its smallest ID point. On that is Z1 post tubes which go around the TB and any 2.5" OD pipe so I'd say their ID is more like 2.6". The sections of 2.5" OD pipe (like stillens cai) and oem MAF section are only 2.35" ID. Then like the MAF post tubes there's more silicon sections that will be 2.6" ID. So it's basically a roller coaster from start to finish.

Humm... I forgot you were still using the oem maf size.... there is some power to be gained after your testing with curent setup.

synolimit · 07-01-2014, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

It's always in closed loop. There are target AFR maps at all load levels.

That doesn't mean you don't need a tune, but it shouldn't run consistently lean or rich -- it should attempt to trim towards the target, which on the OEM maps is around 11.9 at full tilt.

Head to the dyno!

not when you're in open loop haha.

i know i need a tune. already had knocking with just the LTH install. the log didnt show it but the dyno did. not sure which tuner to believe though so im staying out of open loop/WOT till i get tuned.

i contacted Hal at dynosty since i saw Jon at Z1 say "if you cant tune down here, hal is A OK in my book." dynosty is much closer so we'll see what he says. if i do tune there then ill still come back home and do 3 runs at IPS so we have a before and after on the same dyno. dynosty uses a dynapak i believe so no point in showing those results when ive never been on it before.

synolimit · 07-01-2014, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megan370z

Humm... I forgot you were still using the oem maf size.... there is some power to be gained after your testing with curent setup.

why would pulling the OEM MAF section out gain power? the stillen is the same size. since im not boosted and blow through, id guess as long as the MAF voltage isnt maxed it'd make as much power at 2.35" ID as it would at any other ID no?

Megan370z · 07-01-2014, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synolimit

why would pulling the OEM MAF section out gain power? the stillen is the same size. since im not boosted and blow through, id guess as long as the MAF voltage isnt maxed it'd make as much power at 2.35" ID as it would at any other ID no?

no.

since the TBs is now bigger with a slightly smaller shaft, it can flow quite a bit more.
The oem maf tube is your next bottle neck on your system depending if your exhaust can flow freely the new setup.

what can help you understand my point is you don't want vacuum (restriction) into your intake at WOT. if you have a precise tool , I guarantee you there is .

wstar · 07-01-2014, 08:18 AM

Yeah, I don't believe we get the target AFR behavior in open loop mode. Open loop is still really open loop. That said, surely it's at least somewhat influenced by the ECU's learned trims from closed loop when it goes into open? I have no idea, just speculating.

synolimit · 07-01-2014, 08:19 AM

So if I had a stillen cai I'd be even worse off because its 2.35" ID through and through? If I did change it I'd have to be tuned and change it at the tuner since itd be undrivable there. It's a lot of work for possibly little gain. I'd just need ID pipe bigger than then the TB no? I have that all but at the MAF which is about 5", a section that's about 8", a section that's about 5" and a section that's 2.5".

synolimit · 07-01-2014, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Yeah, I don't believe we get the target AFR behavior in open loop mode. Open loop is still really open loop. That said, surely it's at least somewhat influenced by the ECU's learned trims from closed loop when it goes into open? I have no idea, just speculating.

To me closed loop targets 14.5 at xx timing, pretty basic. Open is by itself targeting whatever AFR and timing you're running based off of load and rpm.

Megan370z · 07-01-2014, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synolimit

So if I had a stillen cai I'd be even worse off because its 2.35" ID through and through? If I did change it I'd have to be tuned and change it at the tuner since itd be undrivable there. It's a lot of work for possibly little gain. I'd just need ID pipe bigger than then the TB no? I have that all but at the MAF which is about 5", a section that's about 8", a section that's about 5" and a section that's 2.5".

if you say so...

it all has to work together at the end.
I say you are still leaving some power under the table.

im not saying this to be mean ,, just from experience & learning from others

wstar · 07-01-2014, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synolimit

To me closed loop targets 14.5 at xx timing, pretty basic. Open is by itself targeting whatever AFR and timing you're running based off of load and rpm.

?? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, or I don't understand this **** as well as I thought I did. I thought our AFR target maps (the ones you can modify based on rpm/load/whatever) were what it used in closed-loop mode to realtime-tune the fuel trims based on feedback from the upper O2's to reach the desired target AFRs.

I also thought, by definition, "open loop" meant you're running on a fixed set of fuel tables (perhaps including recently-learned trims from closed-loop mode) but *not* using AFR from the upper O2's to modify the fueling in realtime to try to reach a specific target anymore. In other words, closed loop is based on realtime feedback, and open loop isn't.

synolimit · 07-01-2014, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megan370z

if you say so...

it all has to work together at the end.
I say you are still leaving some power under the table.

im not saying this to be mean ,, just from experience & learning from others

Well picture this, I thought of flow too...

Stillen 2.35" through and through, smooth flow.

Mine 2.5" then 2.35" then 2.5" then 2.35" etc, a little bumpy even though I knife edged the 2.35" sections on both sides.

Possible new cai, 2.5" ID sections where silicon is, then new sections of 2.75" OD. Now I'm not sure of the ID on the 2.75" OD pipe (2.63" i think, 0.11 wall) but I'll have to stretch the silicon sections at the connections. This will make the flow also bumpy as the silicon will be smooth, then open up larger than 2.75", then the air will hit the knife edge of the 2.75" OD pipe. While that's the most cubic inches in size, it'll probably be the least free flowing.

in case you didnt get that i mean this...while id have all sections now bigger than the TB opening, wouldnt this hurt flow some?

06-30-2014, 03:18 PM	#197 (permalink)
lj909 Track Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Riverside Posts: 584 Drives: 40th 370Z Rep Power: 12	Awesome thread Syno! Awesome work! synolimit likes this. __________________ PW 07 HR350Z R.I.P. Totaled by 82yr old woman 2010 40th Anniversary 370Z

07-01-2014, 08:18 AM	#205 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	Yeah, I don't believe we get the target AFR behavior in open loop mode. Open loop is still really open loop. That said, surely it's at least somewhat influenced by the ECU's learned trims from closed loop when it goes into open? I have no idea, just speculating. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

07-01-2014, 08:19 AM	#206 (permalink)
synolimit A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2013 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 5,051 Drives: 2013 Silver 370z Rep Power: 3389	So if I had a stillen cai I'd be even worse off because its 2.35" ID through and through? If I did change it I'd have to be tuned and change it at the tuner since itd be undrivable there. It's a lot of work for possibly little gain. I'd just need ID pipe bigger than then the TB no? I have that all but at the MAF which is about 5", a section that's about 8", a section that's about 5" and a section that's 2.5". __________________ 13 370z-

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06-30-2014, 04:30 PM	#198 (permalink)
Eclipz Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Tampa Posts: 360 Drives: 06 Eclipse GS Rep Power: 12	You have a custom CAI right? One that matches your TB?