the issue is false advertising because everyone here is wanting to see an acceptable methodology to how he is achieving these 'claimed' numbers. I say claimed because there is not solid proof.

don't get the wrong idea, this forum is one large family and we all look out for each other. we do NOT want to have another GTM incident (ie scam) to happen to our brothers and sisters hence us being very scrutinizing and critical.

there may be some previous conflicts between the OP and other users but the whole point i am going to reiterate.

We are just looking for solid proof of the results not some anecdotal evidnce.

I hear ya.. Seems like he was doing fine until he became a sponsor. I am also waiting for the dynos for each one of these modified parts. Just looks like this thread is turning into s witch hunt...

Sorry man i was responding to Syno about saying i wasted money on my extrude honed lower intake the quote didnt show up i was using my phone. But i do agree with you totally. Plus i dont need to do business with him i have all of these parts already on my car. Sorry for the mix up.:tiphat:

After the full throttle shift to second you'll never fall below 4500 rpm.

How do some of you think his gains are tied to the tune when you have to retune. The car was knocking, not because of his parts , but because more air equals lean equals knock. Z1 even says you MUST retune with their manifold. If you don't like the guy that's fine , but at least he's thinking outside the box here instead of following the herd. These cars have been out for 6 years now and how often does someone try something new let alone dyno it and fess up when the gains aren't as good as he thought. Let him try with test pipes and a proper tune.

I agree. This platform is basically shìt in terms of performance NA mods. That's why I went with a huge shot of nitrous and now I'm doing a BP kit. I commend him for thinking outside the box. Oh well if doesn't make that much power but there are also people putting full top secret/amuse/arc stuff on and are gaining the same if not less power than wayyyy cheaper stuff available.

Once again no one reads. Box was delivered empty and put into the mail box. Post office doesn't need you to sign unless over $400. They also market box empty with official stamps. The seller put a couple pounds into a box with no padding. Pads are heavy and busted out the side. Seller also didn't insure $155 brake pads for $155. He only took priories free $50. This is also something I NEVER do! If I ship you something there will be padding so the parts can't move and I'll insure for what you paid! Period.

So again by pulling timing which equals a loss in hp on almost all cars you believe the test is invalid? Interesting. I'll remember that. The cars running around 23 degrees of timing now. Clearly something's not right. My car with the same mods are running 28 degrees with the same ported parts. Only difference is cat vs catless. Clearly no one can hold on a week so forget it.

O and love how I come out and tell 100% what's going on and what I did but any big wig company says we did nothing or tells you nothing sometimes not even showing AFR and you all just take their word. I love the amount of pawns in this world.

No the test is invalid because you have no control. You've tested multiple cars, on multiple dynos, on multiple days, with multiple mod iterations, and you are trying measure improvements that are within the experimental error of temperature and humidity.

Get the car setup with whatever "cheap" exhaust you would like and then all in the same day, without unstrapping the car from the dyno.
Dyno chart 1) Baseline it.
Dyno chart 2) Tune it to whatever level the tuner feels comfortable with. A combination of fuel points, timing, etc..
Dyno chart 3) Bolt your mods on. Base line it.
Dyno chart 4) Tune it to the exact same level of aggressiveness as dyno chart 2.

The differences in 2 and 4 are the impact of the mods. If the mods allow you to run more fuel or timing without knocking? Great! Want to change the exhaust again? Or add an electronic fan in the intake? Or a flux capacitor? Cool, but you have to start at dyno chart 1 again.

But until you do this or something similarly scientific, you don't have ****.

very well said on how to take a more scientifically acceptable methodology. i mean if i ran a tune on my car i'd like to dyno before/after to see the differences for AF ratios, wtq/whp, etc... plus i can actually change my sticker to reflect that +hp that happened

hmm... anything over 300 hp is pretty beefy IMHO. there are diminishing returns though... if i had a 500whp tt monster z how much of that 500 ponies is actually useable/practicle for street use?

it's all about your application. some need it, some want it, some rather not.

i personally like NA engines characteristics so back on topic of... i look to squeeze every last ounce out via bolt ons and any other 'serious' mods that may come after the 'easy' gains are achieved.

Lol no I haven't! I tested one car, on the 30th, period! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE DID AND WHAT I SAID WE'D/DID DO!!! The lack of reading posts is insane in here

He showed up
We strapped him down
We tuned like you said
We installed parts
Car knocked
We pulled a few degrees
We finished tuning ported parts

Car made 319 vs 313 and 260 vs 255. Car picked up 11hp down low and nothing mid range.

Owners buying test pipes and coming back.
We'll put his OEM stuff back on and base run.
We'll tune like you said
Put our stuff back on
Try to dyno as is
Finish tune and see increase.

Yes 100%! But like I've said already a dozen times, I have no signal but on a mountain side hunting from 12/1-12/7. I asked the wife to text me pics if she can find them. She sent me mine from a week ago. Give her credit! All I have is the very first run and the very last in STD. I want to only show the parts graph and in the proper SAE that again I've already said! Correction doesn't really matter but me only having the 20/20 gain from the start of the day till the end of the day does no one any good!

That's the tuners call to post that. I'm not sure what was done but from days beginning till days end we targeted and achieved pretty much 12.5 the whole time. All I know 100% is the cars timing is WAY down vs what mine and others are. This again doesn't affect all you as the car still made good power but something's up!

If I'd of known better about the owners 08 80,000 miles g37 7at with HFCs id of never picked him as a test car. I wanted a 6mt catless but I'm committed to him now.

Going out west next year for some elk. My two sons and grandson each got an elk this year. :yum: :yum:

Lol well I haven't lied to you. It's not going to be a huge shocker as I've already told everyone where and how the car made power. If someone told me they were African American I wouldn't ask for a pic. I get you all want to see it but I have a pretty photographic memory I'm tying to help with as I'm not home.

Again, run 13 after all tuned stock intake parts-313hp 255tq SAE.
After ported parts with tune run 20- 319hp 260tq SAE after about an hour with swap.
11hp from start to 4500
Zero from 4500-6500
6hp from 6500-7800


Run 2 stock base- 299hp 240tq SAE
Run 20 ported plus tune- 319hp 260tq SAE
20/20 overall

Can't be more exact than that.

My tree stand and hill are couple thousand feet up. I hunt from sun up till sun down minus lunch. It also takes a good few minutes to open pages and navigate screens. I'm in my truck now parked on a hill side doing all this and wife just sent pics of just the parts added with tune.

PS that deer was shot 20 feet from my stand. Hence the ability.

Loading pics now. May take a min.

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Does an automated machine do the p/p or is it done by hand? Do you send us used p/p'd parts and we turn around and send you our oem to continue the cycle?

Thanks for sharing pics and dyno charts

The TB's are CNC (computer numerical control) ported. The upper and lower need done by hand since it'd be almost impossible to get done and cost a fortune by machine.

Yes that's how it's done but lots like to keep their OEM parts and can afford to have their car down for a week or two so they just ship them instead of doing an exchange. It's up to the buyer.

Welcome.

Syno, I think whenever you have a chance, since it looks like you have some clear evidence of decent gains to report, make a new thread (maybe with a link to this one for folks who want to review all the details en route to results) that summarizes costs, expected wait time, expected gains, etc.

Otherwise, if I am interpreting those results properly, it looks good!

Also, feel free to PM me if you have the drf's -- if you do and you don't mind sending them to me, I can make and post a range of comparison graphs without the need to post photos of printed out graphs.

I was planning to do this once we get the cats off and show the full gains without any questions of "what if?"

It's late, drf? Like a PDF of the dyno run? I can maybe get that once we head back when the owner gets those test pipes.

I've been keeping up with the thread a little since I have been traveling home. I find it annoying some of the things being said and it's a shame that the community can sometimes lose sight of the over all goal of being here together. Scott keep up the good work. I don't know Scott and have only exchanged a few PM's with the man. I am in Afghanistan during the whole process of sending my upper,lower, and TB's. There was no issue with the exchange and I feel the prices are fare. A lot of people want to see results before taking the dive and that is understandable but to talk crap if they don't meet your expectations is childish. Play stupid games win stupid prizes, that can apply to a lot of situations. I say that with how people talk about his responses to your maybe not so professional words. It is a two way street. I do see a lot of trolls on here so let's just stop for a moment and let Scott do his thing. I have all 3 parts ported and my vehicle is currently at Z1. Hopefully this will be a nice addition to my other parts already installed as well as my nitrous. I hope you all have a safe and happy holiday's this year and as the years keep coming I look forward to new innovations for our beloved Z.

Well Zed Sir, Well Zed.:tup:

Hey, Syno.
Can you do me a favor and label the dyno sheets when they were run, i.e. "Baseline", "Parts added". I'm dumb and I don't know which one is which.

The only one I posted is all the same. I only posted the stock parts with tune vs ported parts with tune. When I get the others I'll label them.

Dyno Run File -- it's the actual data file that the winpep software interpolates. All the detailed graphs in my lengthy dyno thread makes use of that.

The shop should be able to email them to you or you can save it to a thumbdrive.

Gotcha, ok I'll try to grab that when we do this next test run.

Anytime you match the ports. That's hp not left on the table. And if you carefully grind/polish the ports. You can pick up more, even if you are FI. It seams like there are some uninformed people here. It's basic hot rodding 101. The problem here is the way syno comes off.

I read your whole thread. Getting verifiable results to prove your concept with minimal investment is a tough assignment. But you did it. Thanks for all seeing it through to a usable conclusion.

I compared your 23 degree timing with the datalog on my stock 2013 7AT with ECUtek tune and noticed that my max timing at full throttle is 29 degrees. That timing does not knock on my stock 370 with clean combustion chambers. The reduced 23 degree timing required for your 80k mile test vehicle may be the result of deposits in the combustion chamber causing hot spots and/or raising the compression ratio.

Somewhere in the thread you mentioned verifying flow through the manifolds on a flow bench. That is a great idea. Some cylinders may be receiving more flow than others, running leaner and knocking. If you can adjust the porting to make the flow equal to all cylinders, you may be able to crank in more timing and unlock more power.

Sub

That's a good point. If I'd of known more about the testers car I wouldn't have picked him. To much away from what I wanted.

The flow bench testing is done. I'll find out all of the info soon and maybe have Shawn chime in and talk about it.

The flow results are in but sadly only for 1. The lower before and after and 2. The upper and lower together after.

We will be doing more soon with 1. TB before and after, 2. upper before and after. 3. upper and lower before. 4. everything together before. and 5. everything together after.

We have taken this on to see where we were and where we could be to improve for a before and after of everything and by themselves. I specifically machined a port template for the application for this purpose. The stock flow on a regular 370z lower manifold is 335cfm. We then ported the lower and when complete we managed to get an extra 4 to 6 cfm per port! Here is where it kind of sucks...since we where pressed for time we only got the upper port matched result without the throttle bodies to the lower. The overall flow for the entire upper and lower port matched assembly now flows 270cfm. We obviously need the before upper and before upper/lower.

Not a lot of material is left to try and go bigger on either same. We can see the bottle neck is in the upper plenum design but it's a good "out of the factory" part for production purposes. We removed as much as we could get away with to allow sound structural integrity. I'm sure you FI guys don't want your mani to burst.

Everything is still set for some more testing as well so I guess are data isn't completely said and done but most of the hard stuff is addressed!

Stay tuned!

Shawn

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ps98ccf3a8.jpg

Nice work. :tup: Can you get a before and after of the throttle bodies, upper and lower bolted together? :tiphat:

Yep that's next, sent some to him just now.

I know it would be a lot of extra work, but it might be important to know the flow of each port through the whole assembly including throttle bodies. The idea is to make each port in the assembly flow the same. Luckily this is not wet flow so that should allow more freedom to shape ports to achieve equal flow in all the ports.

That can be arranged and should be done to make sure the performance in all cylinders is the same. The problem is to do that on each build would sky rocket the cost of porting as the porter will have to go back and forth multiple times.

Agreed, flow bench matching in production would be cost prohibitive. Based on some experience I have had in the far past with v8 manifold porting there are probably some areas in every upper and lower manifold that need to be touched and some areas that should be left alone. Find those areas and verify with flow testing on one prototype pair of manifolds, then duplicate the pattern on production manifolds. The matching won't be perfect but chances are it will be better than stock.