CJ Motorsports VHR Intake Manifold

phunk · 10-30-2014, 03:49 PM

OK Well I was unable to start a thread this week... between a batch of VHR fuel rails that were fighting back the entire time and removing / cleaning / packaging my greddy turbo kit for shipping, on top of the typical weeks work... i just couldnt get deep into making an official thread this week. I am leaving town tomorrow and coming back Tuesday.

Really there are 2 major decisions to make that are currently keeping me from running full speed ahead.

1: Continue with adapter plate based design, or run all the way down to the cylinder heads.

2: How to deal with the oil filler neck and cap.

Now that I have a "good" aluminum casting source, I am not really bothered to just go all the way to the heads.

Going all the way to the heads will allow for a more optimized and controlled runner shape, length, and taper. It will also be slightly lighter weight. It will cost more, and take longer. Precisely how much more and how much longer is difficult to gauge. Its not the CAD design work I am worried about, its the prototype to production casting process I fear will take much longer to finalize. This direction will almost definitely require proprietary fuel rails.

Leaving it as it is, and adapting to the factory lower intake runners will cost a little less and can be finished up a bit quicker. The adapter design is already "done" and fits, and if I use it, I only intend to make some minor improvements to it (along with adding a 3rd fuel rail option). I could have a fabricated prototype done in a week or two. This would allow existing rails to be used, meaning no major fuel system reworking.

As for the oil filler neck. It is *directly* in the way of cylinder 1. To work around it will mean compromises in the runners and plenum shape. I have some ideas for working around it but it would certainly be "easier" to cut it off. I put that in quotes because its obviously easier as far as the intake manifold... but now it requires removing the valvecover to cut it off and block it off, and then an alternate oil filling location has to be improvised. I expect a new valvecover from Nissan is probably around $200-250.

Once I come to terms on these issues, I can move along pretty quickly. Most of my boundaries are already in CAD... so once I know exactly where I am headed I can finish the drawing and start building.

octet · 10-30-2014, 04:25 PM

Hurry up, Charles, we all need this soooo bad!

1slow370 · 10-30-2014, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk

OK Well I was unable to start a thread this week... between a batch of VHR fuel rails that were fighting back the entire time and removing / cleaning / packaging my greddy turbo kit for shipping, on top of the typical weeks work... i just couldnt get deep into making an official thread this week. I am leaving town tomorrow and coming back Tuesday.

Really there are 2 major decisions to make that are currently keeping me from running full speed ahead.

1: Continue with adapter plate based design, or run all the way down to the cylinder heads.

2: How to deal with the oil filler neck and cap.

Now that I have a "good" aluminum casting source, I am not really bothered to just go all the way to the heads.

Going all the way to the heads will allow for a more optimized and controlled runner shape, length, and taper. It will also be slightly lighter weight. It will cost more, and take longer. Precisely how much more and how much longer is difficult to gauge. Its not the CAD design work I am worried about, its the prototype to production casting process I fear will take much longer to finalize. This direction will almost definitely require proprietary fuel rails.

Leaving it as it is, and adapting to the factory lower intake runners will cost a little less and can be finished up a bit quicker. The adapter design is already "done" and fits, and if I use it, I only intend to make some minor improvements to it (along with adding a 3rd fuel rail option). I could have a fabricated prototype done in a week or two. This would allow existing rails to be used, meaning no major fuel system reworking.

As for the oil filler neck. It is *directly* in the way of cylinder 1. To work around it will mean compromises in the runners and plenum shape. I have some ideas for working around it but it would certainly be "easier" to cut it off. I put that in quotes because its obviously easier as far as the intake manifold... but now it requires removing the valvecover to cut it off and block it off, and then an alternate oil filling location has to be improvised. I expect a new valvecover from Nissan is probably around $200-250.

Once I come to terms on these issues, I can move along pretty quickly. Most of my boundaries are already in CAD... so once I know exactly where I am headed I can finish the drawing and start building.

I see what you did there.

phunk · 10-30-2014, 09:05 PM

^ lol

whiteZ34 · 11-04-2014, 02:18 AM

Subb'd. I need this!

G37sHKS · 11-04-2014, 07:14 AM

Oil filler is blocking your design? must be something good and amazing to look at.

I say screw the oil filler and make the runners all the way to the heads. Maybe even make a billet valve cover and change the location of the oil filler, so no more cutting and probably avoiding human mistake from DIY

phunk · 11-04-2014, 03:40 PM

We would probably offer valvecovers already modified as an option if we go that route.

Billet valvecovers are something we could make. I do not have the time to draw them in CAD but I think I could get Brandon to do it for me LOL. That is actually the easiest type of product to make since after the reverse engineering of the stock part, the design work is nearly complete. But I will start that conversation off with it known we would seek probably $2000 for billet valvecovers. I am not sure that is a very practical product for the VHR community since it would be a cosmetic only thing, and I am not sure how much visual impact it would really have on the engine bay since its partly concealed.

Our VQ35HR engine came in today... needed that before moving ahead on the intake too quickly since want to make sure what we build will fit both engine or only need a different adapter flange.

Nismo350z#310 · 11-04-2014, 04:34 PM

Charles:

You're HR intake manifold developments is causing a stir on the Nismo 350z and HR Z facebook pages. Looks like there is some serious interest in an intake manifold for our cars.

Just letting you know!

To give you input, I think any design approach that enhances quality and performance is a plus, but it's notable that whatever approach is taken, the less priced option might be best from a sales stand point.

1slow370 · 11-04-2014, 04:38 PM

theres always interest the problem is guys who will actually cough up for it when they get the $3-6k price tag for something really good. Greddy has a hard time pushin hat on there GTR manifold.

phunk · 11-04-2014, 04:52 PM

Greddy has stiff competition too with the boost logic manifold and now the new AMS manifold. GT-R is mostly dominated by state-side builders.

BGTV8 · 11-04-2014, 06:49 PM

AT Power in the UK have DBW throttle-bodies in sizes up to 80mm diameter which might suit this project .....

I have been intending to use 50mm ITB based on the Jenvey kit (which looks a lot like where the GTM kit in the 1slow370 thread came from), but I am now re-thinking my options.

Look here: Fly-by-Wire Throttle Bodies, AT Power Online Shop

The Unitech 350Z DE engine used a fabricated manifold and a single 90mm TB to achieve ~500hp @ 9000rpm on the Fontana Racing Z33 that is now in Canada (and it now has a HR heads on a HR block with JWT pistons, rods, C11 cams and ITB if my reading of Sasha's posts is correct).

Hmmm .. lots of options..

phunk · 11-04-2014, 07:30 PM

We made a billet manifold with 90mm throttle for Unitech's DE. But it had a very short stay on the car because they switched to ITBs.

1slow370 · 11-04-2014, 08:48 PM

yeah there is only a handfull of guys who will ever pony up cash for this sort of manifold on our cars. cj is best off making something simple for the boost guys and calling it a day profit wise.

phunk · 11-04-2014, 09:00 PM

Continuing with our adapter plate design and focusing on high power boosted applications and good looks is our most likely path.

Building an intake manifold for all-motor could take several revisions and, not to mention, need a car to test on. Without a dry sump car with every other NA bolt-on, it would be very difficult for us to test different configurations and isolate what changes were from the manifold versus other modifications.

I would be very curious for you to do a couple dyno runs with your stock intake manifold to isolate your curve changes from the long runner and separated plenums. Have you considered doing that?

1slow370 · 11-04-2014, 10:49 PM

Maybe, it was done back before all the exhaust stuff and it picked up a ton of midrange but felt choked up top so now that it is freed up it would be different. Only trouble is its a lot of work to do itand isnt straight forward since the throttles forward is all different as well and wont work on the stock manifold.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

10-30-2014, 03:49 PM	#151 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,668 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 974723	OK Well I was unable to start a thread this week... between a batch of VHR fuel rails that were fighting back the entire time and removing / cleaning / packaging my greddy turbo kit for shipping, on top of the typical weeks work... i just couldnt get deep into making an official thread this week. I am leaving town tomorrow and coming back Tuesday. Really there are 2 major decisions to make that are currently keeping me from running full speed ahead. 1: Continue with adapter plate based design, or run all the way down to the cylinder heads. 2: How to deal with the oil filler neck and cap. Now that I have a "good" aluminum casting source, I am not really bothered to just go all the way to the heads. Going all the way to the heads will allow for a more optimized and controlled runner shape, length, and taper. It will also be slightly lighter weight. It will cost more, and take longer. Precisely how much more and how much longer is difficult to gauge. Its not the CAD design work I am worried about, its the prototype to production casting process I fear will take much longer to finalize. This direction will almost definitely require proprietary fuel rails. Leaving it as it is, and adapting to the factory lower intake runners will cost a little less and can be finished up a bit quicker. The adapter design is already "done" and fits, and if I use it, I only intend to make some minor improvements to it (along with adding a 3rd fuel rail option). I could have a fabricated prototype done in a week or two. This would allow existing rails to be used, meaning no major fuel system reworking. As for the oil filler neck. It is directly in the way of cylinder 1. To work around it will mean compromises in the runners and plenum shape. I have some ideas for working around it but it would certainly be "easier" to cut it off. I put that in quotes because its obviously easier as far as the intake manifold... but now it requires removing the valvecover to cut it off and block it off, and then an alternate oil filling location has to be improvised. I expect a new valvecover from Nissan is probably around $200-250. Once I come to terms on these issues, I can move along pretty quickly. Most of my boundaries are already in CAD... so once I know exactly where I am headed I can finish the drawing and start building. G37sHKS, ANMVQ, Rusty and 3 others like this. __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph Last edited by phunk; 10-30-2014 at 04:11 PM.

10-30-2014, 09:05 PM	#154 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,668 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 974723	^ lol __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph

11-04-2014, 02:18 AM	#155 (permalink)
whiteZ34 Base Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Pittsburgh Age: 32 Posts: 217 Drives: 2012 Boosted 370z Rep Power: 12	Subb'd. I need this! __________________ R/T Built motor, wiseco 9:1 Pistons, Eagle H-beam rods, ARP L-19\| BP kit, PTE 6766, EPS 70mm TB, GTR Intake, PRS lower conversion\| ID1000cc, CJM Twin pump 340&255, PRS Rails, CJM fuel return\| Fast Intentions\| R/T Tuned, 660WHP 596WTQ at 18lbs. 93 octane

11-04-2014, 07:14 AM	#156 (permalink)
G37sHKS A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Dubai Posts: 1,183 Drives: 09 G37S Coupe 7AT Rep Power: 20	Oil filler is blocking your design? must be something good and amazing to look at. I say screw the oil filler and make the runners all the way to the heads. Maybe even make a billet valve cover and change the location of the oil filler, so no more cutting and probably avoiding human mistake from DIY __________________ G37 BUILD UNDER CONSTRUCTION

11-04-2014, 03:40 PM	#157 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,668 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 974723	We would probably offer valvecovers already modified as an option if we go that route. Billet valvecovers are something we could make. I do not have the time to draw them in CAD but I think I could get Brandon to do it for me LOL. That is actually the easiest type of product to make since after the reverse engineering of the stock part, the design work is nearly complete. But I will start that conversation off with it known we would seek probably $2000 for billet valvecovers. I am not sure that is a very practical product for the VHR community since it would be a cosmetic only thing, and I am not sure how much visual impact it would really have on the engine bay since its partly concealed. Our VQ35HR engine came in today... needed that before moving ahead on the intake too quickly since want to make sure what we build will fit both engine or only need a different adapter flange. __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph

10-30-2014, 04:25 PM	#152 (permalink)
octet Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: London, UK Posts: 305 Drives: 2017 Nismo 370z 6MT Rep Power: 3367	Hurry up, Charles, we all need this soooo bad!

11-04-2014, 04:34 PM	#158 (permalink)
Nismo350z#310 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Piedmont, NC Posts: 52 Drives: 700BHP TT Nismo 350z Rep Power: 11	Charles: You're HR intake manifold developments is causing a stir on the Nismo 350z and HR Z facebook pages. Looks like there is some serious interest in an intake manifold for our cars. Just letting you know! To give you input, I think any design approach that enhances quality and performance is a plus, but it's notable that whatever approach is taken, the less priced option might be best from a sales stand point. phunk likes this. __________________ 2007 TT Nismo 350z, 621whp on 100% stock motor

11-04-2014, 04:38 PM	#159 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	theres always interest the problem is guys who will actually cough up for it when they get the $3-6k price tag for something really good. Greddy has a hard time pushin hat on there GTR manifold. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

11-04-2014, 04:52 PM	#160 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,668 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 974723	Greddy has stiff competition too with the boost logic manifold and now the new AMS manifold. GT-R is mostly dominated by state-side builders. __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph

11-04-2014, 06:49 PM	#161 (permalink)
BGTV8 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: 03350 Australia Posts: 1,514 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z M6 Rep Power: 39973	AT Power in the UK have DBW throttle-bodies in sizes up to 80mm diameter which might suit this project ..... I have been intending to use 50mm ITB based on the Jenvey kit (which looks a lot like where the GTM kit in the 1slow370 thread came from), but I am now re-thinking my options. Look here: Fly-by-Wire Throttle Bodies, AT Power Online Shop The Unitech 350Z DE engine used a fabricated manifold and a single 90mm TB to achieve ~500hp @ 9000rpm on the Fontana Racing Z33 that is now in Canada (and it now has a HR heads on a HR block with JWT pistons, rods, C11 cams and ITB if my reading of Sasha's posts is correct). Hmmm .. lots of options..

11-04-2014, 07:30 PM	#162 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,668 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 974723	We made a billet manifold with 90mm throttle for Unitech's DE. But it had a very short stay on the car because they switched to ITBs. __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph

11-04-2014, 08:48 PM	#163 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	yeah there is only a handfull of guys who will ever pony up cash for this sort of manifold on our cars. cj is best off making something simple for the boost guys and calling it a day profit wise. phunk likes this. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

11-04-2014, 09:00 PM	#164 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,668 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 974723	Continuing with our adapter plate design and focusing on high power boosted applications and good looks is our most likely path. Building an intake manifold for all-motor could take several revisions and, not to mention, need a car to test on. Without a dry sump car with every other NA bolt-on, it would be very difficult for us to test different configurations and isolate what changes were from the manifold versus other modifications. I would be very curious for you to do a couple dyno runs with your stock intake manifold to isolate your curve changes from the long runner and separated plenums. Have you considered doing that? __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph

11-04-2014, 10:49 PM	#165 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	Maybe, it was done back before all the exhaust stuff and it picked up a ton of midrange but felt choked up top so now that it is freed up it would be different. Only trouble is its a lot of work to do itand isnt straight forward since the throttles forward is all different as well and wont work on the stock manifold. Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

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