CJ Motorsports VHR Intake Manifold

SPOHN · 01-19-2014, 06:40 PM

How bout stop the opinions and tell us what your making for us besides your mouth running? One good reason not to say anything.

Chuck33079 · 01-19-2014, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOHN

How bout stop the opinions and tell us what your making for us besides your mouth running? One good reason not to say anything.

Seriously. Either do better or stfu already.

mdxj · 01-19-2014, 06:54 PM

Swing how the only two proven manifolds right now are just modified stock ones, I am curious to see how this compares. Can't wait to see the results!

SPOHN · 01-19-2014, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdxj

Swing how the only two proven manifolds right now are just modified stock ones, I am curious to see how this compares. Can't wait to see the results!

I'd lose a little HP to just get a better looking piece.

phunk · 01-19-2014, 07:14 PM

My manifold is targeting high power boosted applications with it's design, and isn't exactly expected to do much, if anything, on a naturally aspirated engine. In its design intentions, it will perform extremely well. Intake manifold design generally involves choosing your compromises, which isn't difficult if you can settle on your application. For the application I have selected, staying within my experience, a forced induction manifold with bolt-in fitment in high power street cars. In this application, the factory lower runners will not serve as a limitation exceeding the value in replacing it. Curves in an intake runner is not the end of the world, nor are shape transitions. When those can be reasonable avoided, sure. However, I believe most of you wish for a manifold that fits under your hood and costs a fair price and looks good doing it.

It's real cute that some techs spent a million dollars making the c6r manifold for an engine that makes less power than my daily driver. But I am making a manifold for real people, real budgets, real cars, real life. I am not building a manifold for F1 or other top dollar venues. Their construction can simply lend as inspiration for every day product, as they have for years.

1slow370 · 01-19-2014, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomer_110

and fwiw this is my idea of a intake manifold masterpiece/benchmark:

Admittedly I don't expect the one that phunk's working on to be anything like this as I doubt most Z34 owners can afford a $5k manifold.

This is exactly what I'm saying Any numbers on this?

It's not just the c6r that was just an example, I'm just saying the manifold cj is making while nice, isn't on the same level as what i would call a masterpiece, he didn't say it but for some reason he feels like arguing the point. It's not a bad manifold but he himself says its going to be more of a nice affordable replacement manifold for boost, than a $5k be-all-end-all vhr manifold.

Masterbeatty · 01-19-2014, 07:37 PM

So how do you get around the electronic throttle bodies with a ITB manifold? I'm assuming to re use the motor for the existing TB and mount it with a linkage to open all the different ports.

Megan370z · 01-19-2014, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterbeatty

So how do you get around the electronic throttle bodies with a ITB manifold? I'm assuming to re use the motor for the existing TB and mount it with a linkage to open all the different ports.

not sure where you going with this but Phunk isn't making an ITB setup.

the picture shown in the beginning is only half of the actual part which is missing the plenum and TB flange.....

BGTV8 · 01-19-2014, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterbeatty

So how do you get around the electronic throttle bodies with a ITB manifold? I'm assuming to re use the motor for the existing TB and mount it with a linkage to open all the different ports.

You use an ECU-controlled stepper motor to pull a cable(or pair of cables).

Most of the V8SuperCar teams use this arrangement.

I have in mind to use Jenvey ITB in precisely this manner.

gomer_110 · 01-19-2014, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

This is exactly what I'm saying Any numbers on this?

It's not just the c6r that was just an example, I'm just saying the manifold cj is making while nice, isn't on the same level as what i would call a masterpiece, he didn't say it but for some reason he feels like arguing the point. It's not a bad manifold but he himself says its going to be more of a nice affordable replacement manifold for boost, than a $5k be-all-end-all vhr manifold.

From one website I found:

Quote:

Their latest product is a carbon fiber intake manifold for GM LS7 motors that can increase the output of a stock crate motor by 48 horsepower at 5, 600 rpm. Torque gains of 30 to 50 pound-feet have been documented at between 4,000 and 6,000 rpm.Power increases are considerably higher on race-prepped hot rod and road race LS7s.

G37sHKS · 01-19-2014, 07:51 PM

Charles will this plenum have any balancer somewhere?

phunk · 01-19-2014, 07:53 PM

Edit: No need for this post.

phunk · 01-19-2014, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G37sHKS

Charles will this plenum have any balancer somewhere?

Yes that is in the design intentions.

1slow370 · 01-19-2014, 08:56 PM

I cant say design specifics in detail but i can give you a list of what makes a manifold a masterpiece.

Engineering is number one with the given space, it should be engineered for maximum performance for the application and as much time as possible should be given to its design. Drawing something up in cad that looks nice and should work based on past experience in a different application and basic design rules, then running it into production does not fit this criteria. Cfd, flow benching, harmonics, testing with different engine combinations, dynoing and real life testing, tweaking it to draw out those last few percent, mitigating any variables that effect the consistancy of performance, these are things that move any designed peice from being good to being a masterpiece. This is the combination of both research into what is happening and development to maximize it.

Build construction not mattering what it is made of should be designed to allow the part to best perform it functions without adding downside as much as possible. In manifold design this is a give and take with cost and sales but on a masterpiece, cost is secondary to all else. In all things a masterpiece does not regard cost divincii took years to paint his works if it wasnt perfect it wasnt acceptable. The term masterpiece is attached to such a level of work.

Because of your budget on this you dont have the time or resources required to move this manifold into the masterpiece area. I doubt we will ever see a manifold like that for our cars because the sales volume and profits are so low. When you say i dont know what it will do on an na car you basically are saying you havent spent the time to figure out what it will do and will instead just wait to see what happens and live with the result. Even in boosted applications through your design process do you have a goal in the percentage of power increase over the factory manifold? What usually happens in cases like this is you draw the best part you can based on past experience and just hope it makes as much of a difference as possible and since you had no real goals so long as it makes a noticeable amount more power than stock it isnt a failure right? Im sure it will be a good manifold the basics of design are visible and you are doing the best you can with your available resources.

So your standpoint is that no better manifold for a turbo 370z will ever be made and that makes this a masterpiece is that right?

Edit: thought you were talking about your own CAD photo, As for that manifold I hardly know much about that particular manifold and I don't consider myself a judge on this just that in my opinion things should be held to a much higher standard if you are to call it a masterpiece, That manifold does sound very promising from the standpoint that those are some of the highest gains I have ever heard of for a manifold to replace the already VERY good ls7 manifold with only the manifold being changed If those figures are true it is roughly an 11% gain vs the best performing factory ls manifold in the same conditions. Can't say if it is a masterpiece but can your manifold come close to an 11% bump in power on a factory motor? that would be equivalent to a manifold that adds 31hp to a factory stock Z.

Chuck33079 · 01-19-2014, 09:14 PM

Oh for christ's sake dude. Pretend no one used the word "masterpiece" and go on about your day.

01-19-2014, 06:40 PM	#46 (permalink)
SPOHN A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Covington, GA Age: 46 Posts: 14,844 Drives: Waiting on next Z Rep Power: 221	How bout stop the opinions and tell us what your making for us besides your mouth running? One good reason not to say anything. gbrettin, elperuano and Chuck33079 like this. __________________

01-19-2014, 06:54 PM	#48 (permalink)
mdxj Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: OKC Posts: 290 Drives: 09 Nismo, 98 Jeep XJ Rep Power: 14	Swing how the only two proven manifolds right now are just modified stock ones, I am curious to see how this compares. Can't wait to see the results! __________________ '09 370 base - RIP '09 370 Nismo - New track car

01-19-2014, 07:14 PM	#50 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,668 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 974723	My manifold is targeting high power boosted applications with it's design, and isn't exactly expected to do much, if anything, on a naturally aspirated engine. In its design intentions, it will perform extremely well. Intake manifold design generally involves choosing your compromises, which isn't difficult if you can settle on your application. For the application I have selected, staying within my experience, a forced induction manifold with bolt-in fitment in high power street cars. In this application, the factory lower runners will not serve as a limitation exceeding the value in replacing it. Curves in an intake runner is not the end of the world, nor are shape transitions. When those can be reasonable avoided, sure. However, I believe most of you wish for a manifold that fits under your hood and costs a fair price and looks good doing it. It's real cute that some techs spent a million dollars making the c6r manifold for an engine that makes less power than my daily driver. But I am making a manifold for real people, real budgets, real cars, real life. I am not building a manifold for F1 or other top dollar venues. Their construction can simply lend as inspiration for every day product, as they have for years. TerribleONE, OMGWTFBBQ, esfourteen and 4 others like this. __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph

01-19-2014, 07:37 PM	#52 (permalink)
Masterbeatty A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2012 Location: Whales Vagina Posts: 4,586 Drives: the speed limit... Rep Power: 122867	So how do you get around the electronic throttle bodies with a ITB manifold? I'm assuming to re use the motor for the existing TB and mount it with a linkage to open all the different ports. __________________ 2011 MB 6MT Masterbeatty journal

01-19-2014, 07:51 PM	#56 (permalink)
G37sHKS A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Dubai Posts: 1,183 Drives: 09 G37S Coupe 7AT Rep Power: 20	Charles will this plenum have any balancer somewhere? __________________ G37 BUILD UNDER CONSTRUCTION

01-19-2014, 07:53 PM	#57 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,668 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 974723	Edit: No need for this post. TerribleONE, SPOHN, Presto and 3 others like this. __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph Last edited by phunk; 02-24-2014 at 01:49 AM.

01-19-2014, 08:56 PM	#59 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	I cant say design specifics in detail but i can give you a list of what makes a manifold a masterpiece. Engineering is number one with the given space, it should be engineered for maximum performance for the application and as much time as possible should be given to its design. Drawing something up in cad that looks nice and should work based on past experience in a different application and basic design rules, then running it into production does not fit this criteria. Cfd, flow benching, harmonics, testing with different engine combinations, dynoing and real life testing, tweaking it to draw out those last few percent, mitigating any variables that effect the consistancy of performance, these are things that move any designed peice from being good to being a masterpiece. This is the combination of both research into what is happening and development to maximize it. Build construction not mattering what it is made of should be designed to allow the part to best perform it functions without adding downside as much as possible. In manifold design this is a give and take with cost and sales but on a masterpiece, cost is secondary to all else. In all things a masterpiece does not regard cost divincii took years to paint his works if it wasnt perfect it wasnt acceptable. The term masterpiece is attached to such a level of work. Because of your budget on this you dont have the time or resources required to move this manifold into the masterpiece area. I doubt we will ever see a manifold like that for our cars because the sales volume and profits are so low. When you say i dont know what it will do on an na car you basically are saying you havent spent the time to figure out what it will do and will instead just wait to see what happens and live with the result. Even in boosted applications through your design process do you have a goal in the percentage of power increase over the factory manifold? What usually happens in cases like this is you draw the best part you can based on past experience and just hope it makes as much of a difference as possible and since you had no real goals so long as it makes a noticeable amount more power than stock it isnt a failure right? Im sure it will be a good manifold the basics of design are visible and you are doing the best you can with your available resources. So your standpoint is that no better manifold for a turbo 370z will ever be made and that makes this a masterpiece is that right? Edit: thought you were talking about your own CAD photo, As for that manifold I hardly know much about that particular manifold and I don't consider myself a judge on this just that in my opinion things should be held to a much higher standard if you are to call it a masterpiece, That manifold does sound very promising from the standpoint that those are some of the highest gains I have ever heard of for a manifold to replace the already VERY good ls7 manifold with only the manifold being changed If those figures are true it is roughly an 11% gain vs the best performing factory ls manifold in the same conditions. Can't say if it is a masterpiece but can your manifold come close to an 11% bump in power on a factory motor? that would be equivalent to a manifold that adds 31hp to a factory stock Z. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 01-19-2014 at 09:36 PM.

01-19-2014, 09:14 PM	#60 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	Oh for christ's sake dude. Pretend no one used the word "masterpiece" and go on about your day. TerribleONE, Ron, EZT and 6 others like this. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

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