Air filter - Fram CA10544 extra guard
 

I haven't started too many threads thanks to search feature but I haven't been able to find enough info on the fram air filter.

Why I wouldn't get K&Ns? I'm not comfortable with maintenance and oiling them. Not interested in the minimal gains really either. Don't want to risk getting dust/debris in my engine or oil on my MAF.

Now, choices:
-OEM filters?
-Fram extra guard CA10544. (too restrictive?)

Any thoughts?

So throw them away? With 2 filters you should be able to go much further than their 50k estimate

Now, if you don't want oiled, I believe Cosworth makes dry filters

K&N aren't "minimal gains" just so you know.

9WHP, Dyno proven.

Maintenance is minimal, you can go 50K miles at least without messing with them.

The cosworth filters reduced power in pretty much every test they've been in.

9WHP without a tune? I know aFe has dry filters as well but not sure if they're good

9WHP without a tune. I did a pull, swapped them, did another pull, swapped them back, did another.

Difference was exactly 9WHP both times.



Others have done similar tests and the results are measurable.

I am running the aFe Pro Dry S filters. Id be willing to bet they get similar gains as K&N. Seeing as how the Stillen G3 and Takeda Stage 2 CAI stack up and each run K&N and aFe respectively.

As much as I know ShOvelman has like 200 dyno runs under his belt, I just don't buy 9WHP.
I'd need 3+ consecutive pulls, then a swap, then 4+ pulls (one more than the first time to really get the car hot)

I don't know if the ECU can update itself that fast either. It sounds too good to be true

It doesn't need to adjust for anything, it's just a change in air resistance, no resonance or piping diameter changes at all.

And Andrew, you should just trust me on this one, we did lots of pulls with and without. I could probably get the dyno sheets if I went and dug around on the dyno PC...but I probably won't bother. ;)

Fine, I'm convinced. I just need to get new filters :D
Is the oiling application included when you get filters?

They come ready to rock. You get instructions with the "recharge kit" when you need it, but I'd plan on at least 30-40K before you even think about it.

Awesome! Thanks man. Kinda feel bad this turned into another k&n thread lol

Just how do you figure that Fram filters are "restrictive"? A little documentation to back up your claim please......:ugh2:

Not to mention recharging it takes only about an hour........50 mins of it being it drying after the clean.....

yup yup.

(I used to use a hair drier on mine... impatient)

Lol, a bit of COD made the time fly by lol.

6MT, that is a question :) the name doesn't help: extra guard (not something like extra flow)

The problem with using a re useable oiled type air filter is that once you use it for any length of time and clean it dirt is transferred to both sides of the air filter during the cleaning process. Which is them sucked into your engine.

I've used re useable air filters for years on motor cycles and even went as far using a degreaser, compressed air and even an ultra sonic cleaner, completely clean the air filter.

No matter what I did or how many times I cleaned the filter, once the filter was dry and shaken over a clean white sheet of paper, dirt would come out.

This led me to switching back to a stock disposable filter element, this gave me confidence that no fine dirt or particles would be sucked into the engine.

Stock disposable air filters also have better filtering ability than the re useable oil type.

That's my concern exactly

The Fram "Extra Guard" filters are still dry paper. No more or less restrictive than any other paper filter on the market. How the op got "restrictive" from that is beyond me. "Extra Guard" is a marketing term used to represent more protection to consumers. Flow rates have nothing to do with it!

Stick with a quality oem paper filter, the minor HP gains using oil type air filters or aftermarket CAI tubes are not really worth pros vs cons.

Cons = oil damage to MAS sensors, high initial cost and replacement cost of oil type air filters, possible dirt transferred during cleaning process, less filtering ability than paper.

Pros = minor HP gains, lifetime use ( if you want to clean and re use a air filter for the life of your vehicle)

1) Stick with a quality oem paper filter, the minor HP gains using oil type air filters or aftermarket CAI tubes are not really worth pros vs cons.

This is pretty much wrong. You can get sizable horsepower gains with drop ins, to say nothing of the cold air intakes available on the market.

2) Cons = oil damage to MAS sensors, high initial cost and replacement cost of oil type air filters, possible dirt transferred during cleaning process, less filtering ability than paper.

These are blown way, way out of proportion. If you were hoping your engine would last 500,000 miles, sorry to break it to you, many other parts of the engine will break down before particulate contamination becomes an issue.

3) Pros = minor HP gains, lifetime use ( if you want to clean and re use a air filter for the life of your vehicle)

Again, are you planning on having the engine last half a million miles? The filter needs to be cleaned very 40-60K miles, if the OP plans on keeping the car more than 120K miles, then yeah you might have to clean it more than once.


I'm not sure why you are even participating in this forum if your view on performance parts for the platform is filled with such disdain that you will suggest that a well established power adder like a cold air intake is inferior to an OEM paper air filter.

Please return to your motorcycles where gains can't be had with such things, because they're already running @ 9.9/10ths from the factory and changing intake components adversely affects the power output. Those viewpoints and observations don't really apply to a comparatively reserved engine like the VQ.

/rant

Also, this website may be more your speed.

:iagree: Spot on...spot on!

I'm planning on keeping the car for as long as I like it lol... Then again, like many others I plan on boosting later on which means I won't need the filters... Good thing about k&n is that they can be easily sold back
More reps to you sh0velMan :tup:

I totally understand.

I also just wanna say, his viewpoints aren't wrong for sport bikes.

If you want a sportbike motor to make its factory horsepower for longer than 20-30k miles, you have to take extra care to keep particulate matter out of the combustion chambers and sludge out of the crankcase. The tolerances are an order of magnitude tighter and the surface area is a LOT smaller. So a 0.01 MM scratch in a cylinder wall is a much greater percentage of your total cylinder wall area than it is on a 3.7L 6.

Scratches are bad on EVERY engine, but it takes a **** ton more of those scratches before you can even measure a difference in sealing performance with laboratory gear, much less a measurable difference on a dyno or in fuel economy, when compared to that of a 0.75-1.3L motorcycle engine.

Also, "so called" cold air intakes for sport-bikes (or any motorcycle with a tuned airbox) add comparatively microscopic gains or even power LOSS, sticking with the stock air box with a good paper filter is almost always the smarter route.

So he's right...and he's wrong. :)

Just found this

http://www.nicoclub.com/articles/images/kn-v-oem-3.jpg

K&N Air Filter Review - Debunking the Myths (and why OEM is better)

Yeah, I've seen that graph before.

It's not news to me that a single layer oiled cloth filter doesn't filter as well as a 2mm thick paper filter, I never said they filtered better, I said they flowed freer. :)

is the amount of dirt that passes through is negligible? I'm thinking it is impossible to avoid getting dust in the intakes anyway, something passes through eventually

I just don't feel like the pass through is enough to matter in practical terms.

If you did a 250k mile test in a lab, in a dust storm, then yeah, I think it'd show a big difference.

Do you live in the desert? If you do, maybe paper filters are the way to go, seriously.

If you don't, go with K&N and just check them for accumulation when you do your oil or whatever.

Splitting a lot of hairs here.

Damn, not bad. Exhaust too? I only ask because how were the AFR? I thought I read, intakes and full exhausts weren't the greatest to run alone.

That wasn't a claim, hence the question mark, he was asking :tup:

K&N drop ins plus PMTs here and very happy with them, 80-90% performance of the best CAI's (like the G3) at 30% the cost.

For those really worried about fowling the maf's with the oil, it's over oiling when recharging them that can do it, so just sell or toss the filteres every 20-30K miles and buy new, that's what I do, or more accurately, plan to do and they're not expensive so problem solved. :tup:

I've done oil analysis's with k&n's. My numbers showing contaminants that you'd get from dust and road debris were no higher than any other car. In fact they were under the average. Longest I had one, re-oiled twice, was 40,000ish.

Cleanable oil type air filters are nothing new they existed in the 40's and 50's, but when the superior disposable paper filters came out they went the way of the dinosaurs .

Same as the straight razor being replaced by single edge blade to the multi blade disposables today.

When you had car and motorcycle intact tracts or airboxs that were very restrictive or poorly designed in the past, the early vehicles of the 80's and 90's did benefit quite a bit from the external oil type filters.

But once the vehicle manufacturers strived to get as much HP and efficiency out of a particular engine design, they paid a lot of attention to the intake system design and based on having a good performance and pollution controls.

This is why you only see marginal gains from just changing you intake.

If you intend racing or tracking your car then, you can go all out, then you can really see a lot of HP gains from the intake and exhaust combos.

Basically with the oiled air filters , you have companies that are trying to sell you on technology that's outdated.

You even now have aftermarket billet oil filters, with cleanable mesh screens that are now being posed as superior to the best disposable ones.

It was with the OEM exhaust off of a Nismo 370, stock headers and cats.

Only thing we did was put the filters in.

According to the widebands on board and the wideband at the tail pipe, AFRs were exactly the same, it just traced higher on the MAF volts (a tiny bit) because it was pulling more air, and the ECU compensated by adding fuel, exactly as the system is supposed to work in open loop.

With the non-nismo exhaust, maybe there would be a difference in the gain you get from the filters, but I really doubt it.

Your theory has some serious flaws. Not the least of which is, why would a company make an outdated product that lasts the life of your vehicle. K&N could make WAY more money by convincing you that rechargeable air filters didn't work and were bad for your car and offering the alternative which you had to replace every 10k.

Obviously this has occurred to you yet but you're in a sports car forum. We generally want our cars to perform as well as possible. Even if it's only a few HP.

To say nothing of the fact that OEMs changed to paper air filters because it lowers maintenance costs and reduces warranty claims, when you're comparing a paper filter to the oiled filters of yesteryear... Which have very little in common with a K&N or the like.

Point is, does going to an oil filter lower the life expectancy as compared to a super thick 'Extra Guard' style paper filter? I feel comfortable saying "yes".

It probably does lower it, from around ~300K miles before the rings are gone to around ~225-250K miles before the rings are gone.

I could not care less about that difference, and I don't think anyone driving a Z today would or should, unless you really care that much about the next owner (or the one after them, or the one after them)...

Besides, the oil pump, VVEL system or rod bearings will probably go before the rings do. Just sayin.

This could be talked to death.

Bottom line:

Want a handful of horsepower? Buy K&N or the like.

Want an engine you can tell yourself will last longer and don't care about horsepower? Buy the thickest damned paper filter you can find.

Everyone's happy! :tup:

^^ makes sense. I think we can close this up :)