basic NA mods vs. Turbo kits
 

Hi everyone!

I just needs some clarifications and different thoughts from Z family members who has been in this type of game we love. The question is which would you go to? NA mods like LTH plus CBE plus CAI plus proper tune which is more or less 3gs or the other option which is turbo kits which is about 6gs( i might be wrong, i am open to corrections). Can we say a Stage 1 turbo?

My point is gain to cost ratio. The other thing is, some people or most of the people here says that it will cost you about 15gs to have a good turbo set up.

One more to consider is keeping the car for a real long time like 10 to 15 years as the car is just used during the weekends.

Kindly help me on this one! Thanks! Peace!

Hmm... What can you afford to do? What do you want from your car?

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Not to thread bash but this has been talked alot about before a 100x over.


Read the finished build threads, read the forums generally and you will come up with your answer.


In the end it's how deep is your pockets? Do you have the one time shot money now to just buy a turbo kit or are you modding as your paycheck or funds allow you to.

With a turbo kit, you need everything up front, with N/A you can mod as you go or how far your money will let you go at that point.


Longevity is all on the tune.

But there is a cap to N/A after a certain point. With turbo there is much more room for growth if the current setup doesn't satisfy you.

Determine what you want to do for the car or horsepower output or delivery/response of the power. Then make an informed decision.

Honestly it all depends on your goals. What do you want to do with your car? Also both prices are on the low side if you are looking at buying new parts.. boosting the car is about as serious of a mod you can buy aside from building the motor.. something to think about as well.. boltons + tune = 40-50whp (maybe) and forced induction will get you anywhere from 100-200+whp

Beat me to it! Great point about how large the cost is up front to go FI. Plus all the supporting mods..

So, 15 gs is the right figure to have a proper turbo set up or much even higher?
I am planning to mod the car and I wanted to know all the fundamentals so that I can decide the right direction. I would not want a Turbo set-up if it could not last long.

I am just after for a car that is fast and responsive that can last long as I have mentioned.

With supporting mods a little higher if you go with a quality kit.. also would you be installing the kit yourself? As far as how long it will last, thats all in the tune and how you drive it.

If you have to ask if it is, a turbo kit is not for you. :twocents:

how much usually is the installation fee of a good one?

i appreciate all the comments..

no real set #.. you figure most qualified shops will charge around 80-100$ an hour.. however you can imagine they are not simple installations. Most shops would probably prefer to drop the motor out of the car however it is not necessary.. No offense, but with all the questions you have I really don't think a TT kit is for you. Possibly a warrantied Stillen S/C? or just stick to bolt ons and call it a day.. you will enjoy it either way!

Thanks Sir terribleONE! i appreciate it! Thanks for being nice. :tiphat:

TerribleONE pretty much covered it, Because I would Love to go TT, but realisticlly, it's out of my budget, especially having to put so much upfront. I have almost full bolt ons with a CAI, Hiflow Cats, and an exhaust. I still need a tune and maybe a manifold but I LOVE my car. It's my DD I enjoy every single moment of it.

I might go with TT after 5 years when I have the juice.. :) i will go full bolt-ons for now..

Will pulleys and flywheels make a big difference? What brands are recommendable for each piece? Thanks!


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Clutch and flywheel make the car much more enjoyable to drive. Do your research if your 100% set on going TT. Some mods wont be compatible just a heads up

You can be an idiot like me and spend $5,000 on going NA, only to go and supercharge it.

Twin Turbos


/thread

if you are happy with the performance of the car in it's stock form and just want some extra hop to it then NA bolt-ons seem to be the way to go. The general concensus seems to be Cat-back exhaust, Intakes, High flow cats and a tune. Don't skimp on the quality of the parts or the installation and you will most likely be trouble free if you take care of it.

that is a good point. would it just cost 5g for supercharging? any other car part that needs to be changed when you go this direction? additional cost?

bear with me guys, i am just learning.. i need guidance.. thanks! :)

SC: $5~$10k
TT: $15~$25k
Insane TT: $50k~$100k+

NA: $5k~$15k

These prices all depend on brands and installation. That will vary your costs...

na will max out around 340whp with bolt ons. if u wanna go crazy and get JUN cams, and head work u can maybe see north of 350+. but that will be it without going crazy tho

I would recommend supporting mods. Oil cooler, upgraded clutch/flywheel (not necessary, but recommended), CAI (resale after you install SC), exhaust, (2.5in minimum), HFC's/TP's/LTH's (only Stillen, GTM stage 1, and GTM twin superchargers are known to fit with the LTH's), M370 intake manifold (most like this mod, some don't, may not be necessary with FI).

I would also look into a better set of tires, and a brake upgrade. Suspension upgrades are also a recommendation... Depending on the kit, just the parts alone will start at $6,000 and top out around $8,000. Twin superchargers start at $10,000. If you do turbo's, Boosted Performance has a damn good turbo kit that can be installed in your garage over a weekend for around $6500 If I remember. GTM has a 16G, 18G, and 20G kit that will be released soon that should be competitive with that price, they also have higher end kits that scale up to retarded amounts of power. Greddy has their kit available, but is more expensive and you have to buy your own fuel system and tuning. Lastly Fast Intentions is putting the finishing touches on their twin turbo kit. No pricing yet, but I'm anticipating around the same price as GTM's scalable twin turbo kits.

Expect to spend $10,000 installed and tuned to do everything right...minimum.

^ i agree with What he said, after doing some research on this forum for a few months it seems like bp may have a kit with a diy install that may cost you around what you would spend with all out NA bolt ons and has a bigger upside when it come to hp/tq numbers.

thanks for all the inputs. what is basically the difference of SC vs TT. does it mean that since TT is more expensive, this will produce more HP and TQ? how much would be the difference? let us compare both kits stage one..

who would you go to when you want SC? thanks!

Expect to spend $10,000 installed and tuned to do everything right...minimum.[/QUOTE]


are we talking SC or Turbo here? thanks!

Both..sc will be slightly less pricey. But a gtm stage 1 with all supporting mods, installed, will set u back over $10k. Tbh, that's prolly on the low dude

It's not impossible to get everything done for $10,000... But you will be missing key mods. Boosted Performance, you might be able to do yourself and take that savings to buy yourself an exhaust. Midpipe back, or get the fast intentions bundle deal. Caution that it only comes with a 19 row oil cooler, it's seriously, just big enough to handle basic shenanigans. Any prolonged bullshittery requires something larger. That is my recommendation if you are finding the most inexpensive way in. It's top quality to boot. So don't take the inexpensive price as a slight to taking shortcuts, it is a complete and bad @ss system.

Exactly. Plus all the black sweat that'll be produced by the fast horse.

Do a custom put together FI setup. You don't need a kit to go FI. My build with all supporting mods isn't even close to 10k. I am only using a single turbo for my build which saves some cash but not when you're looking at a $1600 turbo. If you cant DIY then a kit is a must but you will pay for it.

For support mods aim for 2-3k alone(oil cooler, clutch flywheel csc,etc.)That's probably a little high but I always say plan for more and be happier when it costs less (=

See, you are missing some keys here,

If you went down the GTM website and saw the SC that you want for say 6k, that doesn't mean the whole process will cost that much.

You still need to install, tune, get high flow exhaust, high flow cats, engine oil cooler, transmission oil cooler and GTM valve body upgrade or upgrade your MT with high performance clutch and flywheel. Im sure I missed a lot of things but lets assume we are done here, then you need extreme tires because with SC power with stock tires all you'll do is slip slip slip slip.. useless if you're asking me.

Oh did I mentioned that you "MAY" want more power and build the engine later on after SC is installed?

Think again.

I will Post this again since it seems to be ignored...

The following is what you should expect to pay for the kit + Install + supporting Mods:

SC: $5~$10k
TT: $15~$25k
Insane TT: $50k~$100k+

NA: $5k~$15k

On the SC'er setup I know there were a few used sets going pretty cheap beware of used kits! Save yourself the hassle and buy a new one and not worry about broken or missing parts.

Like others have said expect another $2-3k+ on supporting mods for your kit. a typical GTM kit all said and done with supporting mods will cost you $15k+... If you want to go SC or TT call GTM!!! The guys are soooo helpful and will make sure you think of everything. Also, be prepared to replace your engine at any time! trust me when they decide to go they will go wether your on the highway at speed or in my case driving through the grocery store parking lot after just filling up with gas...


Boom!!!!

there went $5k for a new stock motor or $10k for a built one installed.


This is an expensive en devour make sure you have the funds and the PATIENCE to go down this road!!!

Mike

#1. You mentioned longevity of 10 to 15 years.

I would have to say I think the kits are very reliable and a lot of it depends on the tune and how you drive it. However, there is no denying that when you go FI you add additional stress to the motor. You cannot get anything for free. Don't fool yourself, you are trading reliability for more hp. The only question is how much reliability are you willing to sacrifice for more hp?

In my case, a shop that installed a vacuum line too close to the exhaust caused my waste gates to not control the boost and BOOM, there went a motor.

#2. How much it costs depends on how much of the work you can do yourself. As others have said, with all the questions you have a TT is something you should hold off on. A DIY turbo is also way out of the question.

When modifying costs can escalate quickly.
Say you go TT

Stage 1 TT: 7500
Tune : 500
Oil Cooler 34 row: 600
Clutch/Flywheel: Varies ... say 1-2k
CSC: 400
Radiator: 600
Exhaust & Test pipes: 1500-2000

You're at at around 12k before you even install a single part.
And that's not including labor to install all the parts if you can't do it yourself. Even if you do install everything yourself, there are a ton of small things you're not accounting for. A tool here a tool there, and all the fluids you will need. They all add up. A/C recharge, clutch, power steering, coolant, oil change. (And hope you installed everything right and none of those fluids leak and have to be replaced)

That's not including optional extras either. External gates, boost controller, brake upgrades (pads and lines at least), some stickier and wider tires would be useful too. Some gauges would also be a nice investment, boost and AFR throw in another few hundred for those.

A lot of the other stuff can be added after the fact. But then again adding stuff after the fact may add additional labor too. Either way, you're looking at like 9k up front if you have all the exhaust, and cooling mods on the car already.

To be honest, you should probably stay NA. Turbo cars can be fun, but they can also be finnicky. It's a love/hate relationship most people have with their turbo car.

thanks for all the inputs... now, i am getting the picture. it is really expensive. one comes after the other. :)

now, my question is. once a kit is installed. do we have to put all the FI supporting mods rigth away or else we mess up the car? or we can wait until we have it.. like a project in the making. little by little. :)

You atleast need the oil cooler. NO exceptions.

Clutch, flywheel, csc I would just replace when the time comes..there are a few memebers on here that are close to 500ish whp and stock lasted them 10k miles I think. Not sure though.

.... hey everyone i want to start a winery, but im not too sure what to do. where do i buy grapes at?????

seriously OP im surprised this thread made it three pages. a TT kit is not for you. go buy a car with a factory turbo already on it, or get yourself a XL soda and some snacks and start to read the countless threads and gobs of info thats ALREADY out there.

best of luck, your poor brand new nismo needs it!!!!

Just out of curiosity, how much HP/TQ were you pushing when your engine failed? From reading some of your previous posts in other threads, I seem to recall you having a serious beast under the hood.

The G37 was pushing the 540rwhp and 480tq range...

Well I must admit not all members here are like you. You got some issues man. Funny thing is you are watching it. That is why it is called forum. You may or may not answer. If you know so much about cars, good for you. Be thankful. No need to shout out that you are better than anyone.


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I was in the same boat man, Even when i had my sti that was already turbo'd, when i went big it cost me net 13g's to build the block, rotated kit, clutch, fuel mods, etc...**** i probably spent more than that. It's such a hassle going big with forced induction. The car becomes way more temperamental, there was no more jumping and going, car had to warm up. I was always monitoring it, checking the oil, data logging it making sure there was no knocks. The car became more of a child. In the end I realized i enjoyed the car a whole lot more in it's semi modded stock form, none of the worry that i had when it was built, felt like i could just jump in and go. I'm pretty much sticking to my guns with the Z now. I want just jump drive and not worry about that ****. Like the others said if you already have a budget of 6g's then go ahead and double that. because even if you get the kit for 6g's you are going to find out that you have to spend 4 g's more on additional support parts/mods, not including labor to put it on, and then don't forget the tuning and the anxiety of hoping the car comes out perfect. That's just my opinion.

It is really a big decision to make. Lots of uncertainties.. No guarantees..


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