| Red__Zed |
01-21-2013 02:25 PM |
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Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk
(Post 2122711)
Here is the issue regarding arguing my points. There isn't an aftermarket company on the planet that has the R&D of a car manufacturer. Due to the nature of the industry, Most Engineers that design cars are not going to expound in much detail, if at all on why they may have done things a certain way. There is plenty of research on resonance, torsion, N/V/H, and negative harmonics because it's already a known. Most of my findings are from manufacturers, but also reading about the issue at hand. I haven't read a single cited source that has said specifically, the way our pulley was designed, that it is a dampener of potentially destructive harmonics. Every description and engineering paper I read shows a rubber dampener that is encased with the rubber set vertical. Ours is vertical and only about 5mm thick. It looks like it's preventing all the accessories from vibrating or introducing more N/V/H to the crank as opposed to removing bad harmonics from the engine itself.
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How do you determine that from looking at it?
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Every car company is going to say, leave your engine alone and it will be fine. Every aftermarket company that makes parts for said manufacturer is going to say, "Buy this and it will be even better" Who do you believe? Forums like this is feedback from everyone. I said it before, take everything you read in here with a grain of salt. Yes, even everything I say and argue about, which I admittedly do a lot sometimes. I'm not out to convince the World, but there are always two sides to the story. Obviously, it's difficult to go wrong with a stock crank pulley. I 100% agree. I also believe a well engineered aftermarket crank pulley can be safe to use. Some do not. People ask why, we say what we think, preferably have relevant source material to back our findings. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. Is the Bible indisputable fact? Do you believe every animal floated around Noah's ARK for months and the entire Earth flooded?
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wat?
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I used the word mitigate because regardless of internal or external balancing, spin a motor fast enough and even the best motors can grenade to harmonics. If Nissan plans on spinning the VQ to 9-10,000 rpm or higher, I'm pretty sure we would see a different crank pulley, maybe to a true dampener.
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We are not discussing balancing.
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FYI, I never stated my finding's as absolute facts. I listed my arguments to the topic.
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Got it. I guess I am misreading these posts then:
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Look at the crank pulley, remove the damn thing and look at it, there is nothing about it that dampens harmonics. It keeps the motor from dropping revs too fast, just like the stock flywheel in an attempt to keep drivability in tact.
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You haven't seen the size of it to fully understand. It will rot out well before the engine breaks. Is the motor going to explode when that happens? I'm pretty sure it won't. I'll be surprised if it lasts 15k miles before it rots.
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Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk
(Post 2121634)
Just to clarify for what that rubber ring is for, it's to balance the pulley it's self. I wouldn't doubt it's to assist N/V/H as well, but we all know our engine is not the silkiest around.
Kyle @ Stillen asked Nissan engineers about it on an old thread
"This is a harmonic dampener of sorts, on that point you're exactly right. But it's not to balance the engine, it's to balance the pulley ITSELF."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk
(Post 2121674)
Don't put words in my mouth. Aftermarket pulley's have not shown to be a catalyst of engine failure for our specific engine.
The stock pulley is not a harmonic dampener to remove potential damaging frequencies.
The stock pulley with the rubber dampening sandwiched between the cast iron pieces is for N/V/H and balancing of the pulley it's self. The pulley is also balanced afterward by tapping.
Torsional effects are mitigated by balancing the entire rotating assembly and adding counterweights to the crank. No external balancing was necessary.
Engineers that work on designing and manufacturing factory engines have advanced engineering to the point where in most cases, external balancing and/or harmonic dampeners aren't necessary.
I don't take your quotes out of context, please award me the same.
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Dear lord please show me the engineers that have figured out how to remove the harmonics. For some reason they still haven't filed a patent, and I need to beat them to it.
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Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk
(Post 2120144)
That damper piece people think dampens vibration is a rubber gasket...that's it. It's made out of iron and heavy, not to magically remove non-existent super dangerous vibrations that emanate from our engine. It's the same reason they made the fluwheel a dual mass, to smooth things out, but it also saps engine response (and power). There aren't a lot of newer vehicles or engine designs that require an external damping mechanism. It's just a pulley. Even the stock piece is called a crank pulley. But alas, I'm wasting my breath to half the forum :)
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"non-existent super dangerous vibrations"...Please explain this one.
:rolleyes:
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Regarding my statement about external balancing not being necessary, it is absolutely true for some smaller displacement motors. I think the VQ fits in this category, but there is room for argument there.
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Still not discussing balancing.
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Lastly, and I'm repeating myself, DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK AND COME UP WITH YOUR OWN CONCLUSION!!! I'm tired of people giving recommendations like it's fact and not letting them decide for themselves by only giving them one side of the argument.
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I guess you failed to read the post you replied to. Shocker. |
