M370 with High flow mods.

SS_Firehawk · 07-26-2012, 12:27 PM

This is a repost of the final results. I will keep all existing information so you can follow the thread feedback and analysis.

I just got back from the shop after about an hour and a half of tuning. And here is the verdict...

The M370 intake manifold made more power than the stock manifold from 2,000 rpm all the way to 7,000 rpm. After 7,000 rpm, it was neck and neck. I just sold that damn manifold too... Guess I'll be getting another one down the road.

What all this doesn't explain is how I lost 10whp and tq after a tune from 30 march till now. I'm thinking there is something else that's going on with this car. I'm not sure if it's the sensor, or spark plugs, or both. Posted below are the dyno graphs.

Keep in mind my tuned numbers are lower than my untuned numbers. It's a$$ backwards I know, I'm trying to figure out why.

Information on the graphs isat the top of the image (Fixed Graphs)

1st graph is the stock manifold and the M370 (Blue is M370)

2nd graph is the same but displaying AFR's (Red is M370)

3rd graph is Stock tuned and stock untuned results (Blue is tuned, red is untuned)

4th graph is the same but showing AFR's (Blue is tuned, red is untuned)

5th graph is the M370 manifold tuned and untuned (Blue is tuned, red is untuned)

6th graph is the same but showing AFR's (Blue is tuned, red is untuned)

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Original Post

I decided to make this seperate from my old thread (LTH with HFC + CBE = ?)on my mods as I think this is pretty relevant and stand out.I finally tuned my car and as many of you have known, Ive been having some irritations with it. After months of trying to track down whats causing me to run super rich and rob power, I tracked it down to a bad precat O2 sensor. I replaced it last week and with it working again, it was possible to tune.So I went to the shop (Force Fed Racing in Las Vegas) around midnight with a 6 pack of Sam Adams Summer Ale, a couple laptops, and my Uprev tuner cable.

Mods on my vehicle are on my sig, but I'll list them here: I have PPE LTH's, a Motordyne XYZ Y pipe with a high flow catalytic converter, Tanabe Medallion exhaust, NST crank and alternator pulleys, AEM cold air intake with ETI module, and AE Performance Oil cooler. My oil temps never broke 185 during the runs I might add...

I strapped on the rollers (Dynojet) around 1:30 in the morning after the previous car unstrapped and cleaned his puddle of transmission fluid he left. After Johnny (Shop Co-owner) got familiar with the software, we did a baseline. 280whp and 225 lbft tq. WTF. It was running 11:5 1 AFR's through the run. If you look at my sig below, that's what the car made with the stock manifold and untuned. Untuned, AFR's were in the low to mid 13's most of the run. After about two hours of tuning, we added a couple points of fuel between 3200 and 3600 rpm and one point at 4k rpm because it was too lean, We took fuel out over 5k rpm, and reduced timing by 3 degrees. AFR's were around 13.3-13.4 throughout most of the run and the power curve smoothed out. We were able to get power back up to 304 whp and 243 lb ft tq.

Compared to my last run, I was able to get most of the torque back, but I'm missing a lot of power on the top end. After 5k rpm, I'm not making as much as I did with the stock manifold. This leads me to believe that the stock manifold is better than the M370 when full bolt on's are on the vehicle. Both the intakes and headers really opened up power after 6k rpm and the M370 is the limiting factor. For a near stock vehicle, I see no issues with the M370, but for my car, I did not see a bump in midrange power and I saw a dramatic loss up top when compared to the stock manifold. I'll be removing the M370 and replacing the stock manifold soon and I'll be back on the rollers to retune the vehicle with the old manifold.

I'm not here to bash on Motordyne's products, I really like their stuff, but the M370 did not work for me. I was a M370 faithful and stood by in it's defense until I could prove whether it worked for me or not. I'm disappointed in the results, but the dyno doesn't lie. All my runs have been on the same dyno since baseline. The only differences is temperature. It was about 85 degrees last night. I'm at work and don't have the dyno run on me, I'll post when I get home. Maybe someone might be able to explain the significant power difference until then.

Megan370z · 07-26-2012, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

After 5k rpm, I'm not making as much as I did with the stock manifold. This leads me to believe that the stock manifold is better than the M370 when full bolt on's are on the vehicle. Both the intakes and headers really opened up power after 6k rpm and the M370 is the limiting factor. For a near stock vehicle, I see no issues with the M370, but for my car, I did not see a bump in midrange power and I saw a dramatic loss up top when compared to the stock manifold. I'll be removing the M370 and replacing the stock manifold soon and I'll be back on the rollers to retune the vehicle with the old manifold.

I'm not here to bash on Motordyne's products, I really like their stuff, but the M370 did not work for me. I was a M370 faithful and stood by in it's defense until I could prove whether it worked for me or not. I'm disappointed in the results, but the dyno doesn't lie. All my runs have been on the same dyno since baseline. The only differences is temperature. It was about 85 degrees last night. I'm at work and don't have the dyno run on me, I'll post when I get home. Maybe someone might be able to explain the significant power difference until then.

on a side note look at my last dyno test * HR vs VHR intake manifold within an hour ,same weather , same day.**
you can see on my case , the HR intake is quite superior minus some loss over 7200 rpm went up to 7700rpm

ok its not the one from Motordyne as I did the swap and modified the IM myself but they are the same exact part.

the car has a bigger CAI & MAF Tube
bigger TB by 2.5mm
NST lightweight crank pulley
PPE steped long tube headers
custom X-pipe and straight flow muffler. ( 2.5'' exhaust )

I did a mistake on the picture when I wrote down which was the VHr and HR dyno number...

VHR = 329whp
HR = avrg of 327whp of the 3 runs.

370Z JT · 07-26-2012, 08:03 PM

I took mine off bc it took 10 WHP from top end. The mid range gain was there but only for a smaller window when compared to when I was untuned.

SS_Firehawk · 07-26-2012, 09:25 PM

I've uploaded my dyno's. I have my baseline, untuned with stock manifold (316 whp), and tuned with M370 manifold (304 whp).

I'm losing more than 14 whp considering that it's tuned and still that far off. Tomorrow, I'll be replacing the manifold and retuning. So I'll post another update when that occurs.

I'll get the files and combine the graphs as well. It should make it much easier to compare.

Kingbaby · 07-27-2012, 05:14 AM

I haven't keep up with the the product so correct me if I'm wrong. Doesn't the M370 help with mid range numbers! Also I noticed many of you get trap in the peak numbers game! Been in your shoes so I know the fustration with parts and harmony! Either way from the looks of it, and my past experience...tuning is key!

Unique_Z · 07-27-2012, 06:50 AM

Erkk..that's quite surprising..fortunately i found this thread before i'm gonna pull the trigger..thanks for the info mate!

Z eliminator · 07-27-2012, 08:40 AM

mine works great for me. i gained tones of bottom mid and lost no top end at all.
Made a big difference in he 1/4 mile runs.

Z

Z eliminator · 07-27-2012, 08:43 AM

I hope that you bring your car to the Z drag day this sept. at St thomas .
I would like to run you to see how your set up runs against mine.

Z

SS_Firehawk · 07-27-2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z eliminator

I hope that you bring your car to the Z drag day this sept. at St thomas .
I would like to run you to see how your set up runs against mine.

Z

I would love to, but ill be heading back to Afghanistan in Sep. I'm not the best 1/4 driver, but I'm hoping to take it back to the track before I leave. It's just really hot here and higher in elevation. Best i ran was 13.9 at 102, and my 60' was 2.2 (not great).

SS_Firehawk · 07-27-2012, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z eliminator

mine works great for me. i gained tones of bottom mid and lost no top end at all.
Made a big difference in he 1/4 mile runs.

Z

What mods are you running with the M370? I'm assuming you have gears with that time.

Motordyne · 07-27-2012, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

...
Compared to my last run, I was able to get most of the torque back, but I'm missing a lot of power on the top end. After 5k rpm, I'm not making as much as I did with the stock manifold. This leads me to believe that the stock manifold is better than the M370 when full bolt on's are on the vehicle. Both the intakes and headers really opened up power after 6k rpm and the M370 is the limiting factor. For a near stock vehicle, I see no issues with the M370, but for my car, I did not see a bump in midrange power and I saw a dramatic loss up top when compared to the stock manifold. I'll be removing the M370 and replacing the stock manifold soon and I'll be back on the rollers to retune the vehicle with the old manifold....

When will you do the re-dyno?
I'm wondering if you have some other variable affecting your results. That loss of 100HP sounds really off. Too much to be even a bad install because the primary thing to a bad install is a air leak. And they affect idle exponentially more than WOT.

It's hard to imagine a air leak that would cause a loss of WOT 100HP without making it impossible for the engine to idle or even start up.

The sooner you can get the car back on the dyno with the stock manifold, the better. Just in case there is something else happening that isn't currently accounted for.

100HP is just too much to be a air leak alone.

Z eliminator · 07-27-2012, 03:36 PM

Where are you located at . in Ont.
we can get together one night

Z

SS_Firehawk · 07-27-2012, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motordyne

When will you do the re-dyno?
I'm wondering if you have some other variable affecting your results. That loss of 100HP sounds really off. Too much to be even a bad install because the primary thing to a bad install is a air leak. And they affect idle exponentially more than WOT.

It's hard to imagine a air leak that would cause a loss of WOT 100HP without making it impossible for the engine to idle or even start up.

The sooner you can get the car back on the dyno with the stock manifold, the better. Just in case there is something else happening that isn't currently accounted for.

100HP is just too much to be a air leak alone.

I have that problem fixed and brought me up to 300 whp. But its still far off from my numbers with the stock intake. I know a lot of guys here make good power with minimal loss on the top end, but I'm not seeing any gains that were better than the stock manifold anywhere in my powerband. I really want the manifold to work, but I'm not seeing benefits. So as a last ditch effort, I'm putting the stock one on, retuning and re-dynoing to validate my results with a more recent dyno. I'll email you the files after. I'll be on the rollers around 1:00am pac time.

BTW I live in Las Vegas.

advan37 · 07-27-2012, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

I have that problem fixed and brought me up to 300 whp. But its still far off from my numbers with the stock intake. I know a lot of guys here make good power with minimal loss on the top end, but I'm not seeing any gains that were better than the stock manifold anywhere in my powerband. I really want the manifold to work, but I'm not seeing benefits. So as a last ditch effort, I'm putting the stock one on, retuning and re-dynoing to validate my results with a more recent dyno. I'll email you the files after. I'll be on the rollers around 1:00am pac time.

BTW I live in Las Vegas.

I'll wait to see your number with stock manifold . The HR manifold work fine with me , I have 3G stillen intake , stock cats and berk exhaust . Im planning to add ART test pipe then I'll have to re-tune my car to see the final result .

SS_Firehawk · 07-28-2012, 02:15 AM

Dyno rescheduled for next week. Too tired to stay up all night doing the manifold swap and tuning.

Edit: Reinstalled stock manifold in my garage. Butt dyno says there is a minor improvement, but it was 110 degrees outside and the tune is with the M370. I'll be scheduling early next week for retuning. I also learned I'm not a great wrench turner... But good enough to do this myself.

07-26-2012, 12:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7335	M370 with High flow mods. This is a repost of the final results. I will keep all existing information so you can follow the thread feedback and analysis. I just got back from the shop after about an hour and a half of tuning. And here is the verdict... The M370 intake manifold made more power than the stock manifold from 2,000 rpm all the way to 7,000 rpm. After 7,000 rpm, it was neck and neck. I just sold that damn manifold too... Guess I'll be getting another one down the road. What all this doesn't explain is how I lost 10whp and tq after a tune from 30 march till now. I'm thinking there is something else that's going on with this car. I'm not sure if it's the sensor, or spark plugs, or both. Posted below are the dyno graphs. Keep in mind my tuned numbers are lower than my untuned numbers. It's a$$ backwards I know, I'm trying to figure out why. Information on the graphs isat the top of the image (Fixed Graphs) 1st graph is the stock manifold and the M370 (Blue is M370) 2nd graph is the same but displaying AFR's (Red is M370) 3rd graph is Stock tuned and stock untuned results (Blue is tuned, red is untuned) 4th graph is the same but showing AFR's (Blue is tuned, red is untuned) 5th graph is the M370 manifold tuned and untuned (Blue is tuned, red is untuned) 6th graph is the same but showing AFR's (Blue is tuned, red is untuned) __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________ Original Post I decided to make this seperate from my old thread (LTH with HFC + CBE = ?)on my mods as I think this is pretty relevant and stand out.I finally tuned my car and as many of you have known, Ive been having some irritations with it. After months of trying to track down whats causing me to run super rich and rob power, I tracked it down to a bad precat O2 sensor. I replaced it last week and with it working again, it was possible to tune.So I went to the shop (Force Fed Racing in Las Vegas) around midnight with a 6 pack of Sam Adams Summer Ale, a couple laptops, and my Uprev tuner cable. Mods on my vehicle are on my sig, but I'll list them here: I have PPE LTH's, a Motordyne XYZ Y pipe with a high flow catalytic converter, Tanabe Medallion exhaust, NST crank and alternator pulleys, AEM cold air intake with ETI module, and AE Performance Oil cooler. My oil temps never broke 185 during the runs I might add... I strapped on the rollers (Dynojet) around 1:30 in the morning after the previous car unstrapped and cleaned his puddle of transmission fluid he left. After Johnny (Shop Co-owner) got familiar with the software, we did a baseline. 280whp and 225 lbft tq. WTF. It was running 11:5 1 AFR's through the run. If you look at my sig below, that's what the car made with the stock manifold and untuned. Untuned, AFR's were in the low to mid 13's most of the run. After about two hours of tuning, we added a couple points of fuel between 3200 and 3600 rpm and one point at 4k rpm because it was too lean, We took fuel out over 5k rpm, and reduced timing by 3 degrees. AFR's were around 13.3-13.4 throughout most of the run and the power curve smoothed out. We were able to get power back up to 304 whp and 243 lb ft tq. Compared to my last run, I was able to get most of the torque back, but I'm missing a lot of power on the top end. After 5k rpm, I'm not making as much as I did with the stock manifold. This leads me to believe that the stock manifold is better than the M370 when full bolt on's are on the vehicle. Both the intakes and headers really opened up power after 6k rpm and the M370 is the limiting factor. For a near stock vehicle, I see no issues with the M370, but for my car, I did not see a bump in midrange power and I saw a dramatic loss up top when compared to the stock manifold. I'll be removing the M370 and replacing the stock manifold soon and I'll be back on the rollers to retune the vehicle with the old manifold. I'm not here to bash on Motordyne's products, I really like their stuff, but the M370 did not work for me. I was a M370 faithful and stood by in it's defense until I could prove whether it worked for me or not. I'm disappointed in the results, but the dyno doesn't lie. All my runs have been on the same dyno since baseline. The only differences is temperature. It was about 85 degrees last night. I'm at work and don't have the dyno run on me, I'll post when I get home. Maybe someone might be able to explain the significant power difference until then. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction Last edited by SS_Firehawk; 08-04-2012 at 06:09 PM.

07-26-2012, 08:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
370Z JT A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: United States Posts: 2,905 Drives: 370Z PW 7AT Rep Power: 378	I took mine off bc it took 10 WHP from top end. The mid range gain was there but only for a smaller window when compared to when I was untuned. __________________ Click for My Journal Top Secret \| EVO-R \| Fujimura Auto \| Shine Auto \| Seibon \| MRWorks \| Swift \| SPC \| SSR \| UpRev \| Project Kics \| NST \| Titek \| Eibach \| Nismo \| Whiteline \| Quaife \| Invidia \| Fly1 \| CF Element \| Carbon Signal

07-27-2012, 06:50 AM	#6 (permalink)
Unique_Z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Brunei Posts: 1,515 Drives: 370Z, 180SX Rep Power: 18	Erkk..that's quite surprising..fortunately i found this thread before i'm gonna pull the trigger..thanks for the info mate! __________________ My Z Build UniqueZ

07-27-2012, 08:40 AM	#7 (permalink)
Z eliminator A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 1,659 Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports Rep Power: 19	mine works great for me. i gained tones of bottom mid and lost no top end at all. Made a big difference in he 1/4 mile runs. Z __________________ 12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015.

07-27-2012, 08:43 AM	#8 (permalink)
Z eliminator A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 1,659 Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports Rep Power: 19	I hope that you bring your car to the Z drag day this sept. at St thomas . I would like to run you to see how your set up runs against mine. Z __________________ 12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015.

07-27-2012, 03:36 PM	#12 (permalink)
Z eliminator A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 1,659 Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports Rep Power: 19	Where are you located at . in Ont. we can get together one night Z __________________ 12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015.

07-28-2012, 02:15 AM	#15 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7335	Dyno rescheduled for next week. Too tired to stay up all night doing the manifold swap and tuning. Edit: Reinstalled stock manifold in my garage. Butt dyno says there is a minor improvement, but it was 110 degrees outside and the tune is with the M370. I'll be scheduling early next week for retuning. I also learned I'm not a great wrench turner... But good enough to do this myself. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction Last edited by SS_Firehawk; 07-28-2012 at 07:42 PM. Reason: updated info

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