[Official] "Do I need a tune with bolt-ons?" thread

[Wilson2608]

Originally Posted by RanRich

BUMP!

Putting test pipes on with my full exhaust and JWT pop chargers + MAF tubes in a couple weeks. Am I okay to run (meaning spirited driving and WOT) for the time being without a tune? Or should I put the stock airboxes back on in the meantime to do this safely?

Getting a tune this summer, but not for a few weeks after install at the very least.

You'll be fine you just may run a little lean and possibly throw a code. As long as you know your getting the tune soon don't stress it too much

[RanRich]

Originally Posted by Wilson2608

You'll be fine you just may run a little lean and possibly throw a code. As long as you know your getting the tune soon don't stress it too much

As in a code for running lean or for the test pipes? I'm trying to find time to head over to Dynosty for an EcuTek tune but don't want to grenade beforehand if I get a little playful with the car.

[Jimbo370]

Would a tune be beneficial for K&N drop filters, stillen HFC, light weight crank pulley. still have OEM EXHAUST but looking for a better 1. I hate the delay throttle response. THANKS

[BLK N-Z34]

I recently installed AAM Resonated Short Tails, Stillen Gen3 CAI, and ART Pipes. I was running with the Short Tails and CAI for a few months before I installed the ART Pipes and didn't have any issues throwing codes. Now that I've installed the ART Pipes I'm throwing codes for both 02 Sensors reading too lean. My car is still fairly new and only just passed the 8,000 miles mark. I won't be able to get the car tuned until the end of the year. Is it safe for me to drive the car with the mods installed or should I re-install some of the OEM parts to be safe? Reading through this forum I've seen mixed responses. Some people say that it should be safe and others say that the A/F ratio could be thrown off really bad. Is it possible that the ART Pipes are reading the A/F mixture incorrectly due to the 02 sensor placement? I'm just trying to be safe and ensure that I don't damage my vehicle. Any help is appreciated!

[jchammond]

Originally Posted by BLK N-Z34

I recently installed AAM Resonated Short Tails, Stillen Gen3 CAI, and ART Pipes. I was running with the Short Tails and CAI for a few months before I installed the ART Pipes and didn't have any issues throwing codes. Now that I've installed the ART Pipes I'm throwing codes for both 02 Sensors reading too lean. My car is still fairly new and only just passed the 8,000 miles mark. I won't be able to get the car tuned until the end of the year. Is it safe for me to drive the car with the mods installed or should I re-install some of the OEM parts to be safe? Reading through this forum I've seen mixed responses. Some people say that it should be safe and others say that the A/F ratio could be thrown off really bad. Is it possible that the ART Pipes are reading the A/F mixture incorrectly due to the 02 sensor placement? I'm just trying to be safe and ensure that I don't damage my vehicle. Any help is appreciated!

if there's a local dyno shop...throw it on there & ensure you're not running lean-as this will toast your engine.
we have a local in SC w/a Dyno-jet & he put's the A/F meter at the exhaust...it should be on the rich side @wot (12.0-13.0) unless you have a vacuum leak,etc...

[BLK N-Z34]

Originally Posted by jchammond

if there's a local dyno shop...throw it on there & ensure you're not running lean-as this will toast your engine.
we have a local in SC w/a Dyno-jet & he put's the A/F meter at the exhaust...it should be on the rich side @wot (12.0-13.0) unless you have a vacuum leak,etc...

I live in Tennessee and the closest UpRev tuner is Z1 Motorsports. It's a bit of a trip to get out there and as I said before, I really don't have the capacity to spend the money on a tune right now. In a few more months I will be able to. That's why I asked if it's safe for me to leave the parts on for a few months or if I should remove them and re-install them once I get my tune.

[jchammond]

You can make dyno runs without tuning your car & see where your AFR is...unsure what a Dyno shop charges.
Our local shop use to be $50 for 2 pulls & he's gone up to 75...he also gives out printed sheets w/graphs,whp,wtq,and it shows AFR.
Custom tunes start around 600+ (this includes license).
I added FI TP's,exhaust & a CAI (didn't move the placement of my mafs) and it ran 12.20AFR before taking to get a tune...it never threw a cel & drove 5-600 miles before going to Z1 for a tune.

[jchammond]

Also; what sensors are throwing the codes? And were any impact wrenches used on exhaust with O2's still in place?

[BLK N-Z34]

The car is now throwing the following codes:

P2096 - Post Catalyst Fuel Trim System Too Lean Bank 1

P2098 - Post Catalyst Fuel Trim System Too Lean Bank 2

I clear the codes and they come back in roughly 50 miles or so. They didn't come on within the first 150-200 miles after installing the ART Pipes though. I removed both O2 sensors before removing the original converters. The O2 sensors were both removed by hand with a wrench and a slotted O2 socket so they shouldn't be damaged. Now that I think about it I did put them back on but only hand tighten them.. that could be a problem? lol

[OhioYJ]

Originally Posted by BLK N-Z34

The car is now throwing the following codes:

P2096 - Post Catalyst Fuel Trim System Too Lean Bank 1

P2098 - Post Catalyst Fuel Trim System Too Lean Bank 2

I clear the codes and they come back in roughly 50 miles or so. They didn't come on within the first 150-200 miles after installing the ART Pipes though. I removed both O2 sensors before removing the original converters. The O2 sensors were both removed by hand with a wrench and a slotted O2 socket so they shouldn't be damaged. Now that I think about it I did put them back on but only hand tighten them.. that could be a problem? lol

My car has Berk HFCs on it, and threw those codes once before being tuned, and has since thrown those codes once since being tuned. I wasn't running lean before being tuned though (More here), I was running rich.

Torque spec I believe on the O2 sensors is 33 ft-lbs, so you could have achieved that with by hand. However that's honestly not one I deem critical, and I use a torque wrench for practically everything.

My car has only thrown those codes twice, and I just chalk it up to the HFCs, but it's been 5000 miles apart, so I haven't worried about it. If it does it again, I'll talk to the tuner. In your case with test pipes, they maybe causing this (since it reoccurs so quickly). The other possibility is an exhaust leak.

[jchammond]

Originally Posted by BLK N-Z34

The car is now throwing the following codes:

P2096 - Post Catalyst Fuel Trim System Too Lean Bank 1

P2098 - Post Catalyst Fuel Trim System Too Lean Bank 2

I clear the codes and they come back in roughly 50 miles or so. They didn't come on within the first 150-200 miles after installing the ART Pipes though. I removed both O2 sensors before removing the original converters. The O2 sensors were both removed by hand with a wrench and a slotted O2 socket so they shouldn't be damaged. Now that I think about it I did put them back on but only hand tighten them.. that could be a problem? lol

Definitely best to be hand removed & installed before wrenching on exhaust bolts....Sound's like those specific pipes may be causing the light-pending you have no exhaust or intake leak.
Unsure how close you are to one of those performance shop's listed in Tenn. w/Dyno,
but they can give you a baseline HP/TQ reading & let you know where your AFR is.
Better safe than sorry; Hopefully other's w/same pipes,intake will chime in & give advice,,,as lean condition's will destroy engine's.

[BLK N-Z34]

I've been reading that it could be caused by an exhaust leak. What are the chances that the connections between the headers and the ART Pipes is leaking or even the Y pipe since I had to remove that to install the new setup.

[jchammond]

Originally Posted by BLK N-Z34

I've been reading that it could be caused by an exhaust leak. What are the chances that the connections between the headers and the ART Pipes is leaking or even the Y pipe since I had to remove that to install the new setup.

Raise it up & get underneath it; feel around connections while someone rev's engine...you can't always hear a small leak; but look for suit around all joints.

[BLK N-Z34]

I went ahead and purchased a set of the Z1 metal gaskets for the connections between the headers/ART pipes and the ART pipes/y-pipe. I'll get under the car once they arrive and try replacing the gaskets that came with the ART pipes with the new Z1 gaskets. I've read a lot of good things about the Z1 gaskets resolving most exhaust leak issues. I was able to find a few local dyno tuners in the Nashville area too so I'm going to call around this week to see what I can have done. Thanks for your help! I'll provide an update once I get this all sorted out.

[jchammond]

Tenfo.
And you do not have to have a custom tune performed there;
Just a couple baseline runs on the Dyno-to ensure your AFR is ok & will give you a piece of mind & an idea of where you stand with power.
I like Jon@Z1 & thinks he does a fantastic job on the tuning end!