CBE w/no or least drone?

Red__Zed

ImportConvert

Well, I am hoping the effects of the Z06 are lasting. I gained...quite a bit from that 505bhp/3200#, lol. It really is a head-rush pulling up to a 427R Rousche and watching the person driving pointedly ignore you and move into the slow lane to let you by without even looking at you and making sure to do 5mph under your speed.

I don't want to be like that one guy who came in here telling us about how he was 6'3 and 230# and a big manly man and his friend told him over supper that the 370Z was a girls car and it ruined his whole night and he had to come and post up about it on the internet because manly men do that when upset by their friends insinuation that they lack manliness. I'll drive my 370Z with pride--rude supper guests not withstanding.

Rockcrawler

It IS a girls car..... they want to be seen getting in and out on the passenger side while you open the door, looks damn good on them

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2009 silver sport, 6MT touring and nav, 8700 miles when I got it, "almost" a daily driver now... bone stock aside from tint and Gemini CBE, PC'd Rays black stardust and running 275/295 DWS rubber

ImportConvert

Just ordered Z1 post-maf hoses and K&N filters.

I have read the tests, and the K&N allows only 2% or so more crap in. If the OEM filter were within 2% of allowing enough contaminant in to destroy the motor, there would be issues. Everything has "design tolerance" and this falls easily inside that range. When I was in my 400 lvl statistics and research classes, they taught us about manipulating information via visual depiction, etc. Here is a perfect example:


Notice how the K&N is just shy of 97% efficient while the top filter listed is just shy of 100% efficient? A difference of THREE PERCENT is displayed graphically in a VERY slanted manner. Were this scale 0-100%, they would be a furry hair away from each other. Instead, the poster chose to use the top 4% of the 0-100% scale, and made the K&N graphic about 1/4 as large as the other. Very slanted, and I think it's a BS way of making your point.

This link explains the results of this man visiting K&N's facility 2 years later...
K&N air filter,,,,good or bad ????? - Page 3 - Nissan Frontier / Navara Forum

Having read this, it is obvious to me that Mr. Spicer is engaging in what I can "mental masturbation". It is fun, he has some data to back him, but in the end it is not going to bare any fruit of any import. 2-3% more dust is not going to lock your engine up and make the earth stop spinning. In fact, if you normally change your oil at 5K miles, and you then decide to change it at 4K miles instead, you will cut TWENTY PERCENT of the dust circulating in the oil. Not only that, but you will remove 20% of the time that that other 80% in the oil would have spent circulating. I wonder if Mr. Spicer uses 1,000 mile oil-change intervals on his street-driven vehicles?

XBarbarian

Great point on the graphs.. we see this level of graphical manipulation...everywhere.. just watch your local news...

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Rockcrawler

Import, not contesting what you looked up and derived from it. My original source is a well known 30 yr Cummins Engineer who was involved in significant heavy equipment testing using historical oil analysis from scheduled PM on a fleet of equipment having run the oem micron spec filters. K&N asked the customer if they could demonstrate a cost savings on the fleet by use of washable filters. They did save considerable money on the filters. but the oil analysis went to **** with substantially more dirt in it drastically changing the oil change interval and erasing any savings.

This is not urban legend, spoke to the horses mouth. It's become well known in the offroad and diesel truck world.

NOW that was ten yrs ago and if K&N was smart they would have altered their product to perform more admirably. Maybe they have. It's simpler for me just to verify oem micron ratings regardless of brand.

all that said, sleds and boats don't even use air filters. Most of us spoiling our cars don't see a lot of dirt roads, but, it used to be relevant..... and me still be relevant for some.... so i shared, eyes wide open. Forgive the hijack.... motor on

__________________
2009 silver sport, 6MT touring and nav, 8700 miles when I got it, "almost" a daily driver now... bone stock aside from tint and Gemini CBE, PC'd Rays black stardust and running 275/295 DWS rubber

Red__Zed

I always laugh when people use that chart as an example of "misleading graphs"

The general assumption with most of these data presentations is you have some understanding how to read scale. They aren't going to show it from the perspective of 0-100 because it would be unreadable.

If you want a "fair" way to look at it, take a look at this:

Your 96.8% efficiency on the K&N maps to just shy of a 3.4 sigma process...you are talking 32,000 defects per million opportunities.

Compare to the AC Delco at 99.93%, and you have a ~4.7 sigma process, a mere 700 defects per million opportunities.

In this case, your "defect" is a piece of crap that shouldn't be there (ie, dust, dirt), and you might be surprised at the high number of "opportunities" that appear over the course of a drive.

You can debate all day whether or not an 45 TIMES the crap getting past the filter is a big deal or not all day (and I won't bother because it isn't worth my time), but trying to downplay the number as "just 3%" is misleading. "Just 3%" was the difference between a Motorola that almost went out of business in the 80's, and the Motorola that was a major player in the 90's. Percentages are inherently misleading when viewed by most people, especially regarding high-capability processes (like filtering). We could, of course, illustrate with DPMO, but I imagine those results would appear even more skewed.

Red__Zed

Double post...

Red__Zed

Hell, no need to imagine. Here you go

ZMan8

nice.
So where does the stock air filter fall in on this chart?

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2010 370Z 40 Anniv., 6 MT | Fast Intentions | Swift Springs | SPC | Z1Motorsports | JWM | Redline Oils | 35% Window Tint
2015 Mazda6 | 370ZChicago: Chicago Area Cars & Coffee

m4a1mustang

Love it.

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Red__Zed

I unfortunately do not have access to any data surrounding the stock filter

ZMan8

Would my logic be correct in that an air filter that has the lowest DPMO also is more air restrictive (therefore not providing the typical gains seen from dropin filters (k&N filters since they are most common on this forum)

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2010 370Z 40 Anniv., 6 MT | Fast Intentions | Swift Springs | SPC | Z1Motorsports | JWM | Redline Oils | 35% Window Tint
2015 Mazda6 | 370ZChicago: Chicago Area Cars & Coffee

daisuke149

generally. There could be a filter with a very low DPMO but also has a high flow... but then again things like that would probably cost more than people are willing to pay and so no one bothers to make one. Its all possible..

P.S i would assume the stock filter has a low DPMO and also doesn't flow very well... because as much as we want to believe otherwise, Nissan won't put a filter in there that could cause engine damage and thus have them to pay out on a warranty fix. They will be overly cautious to protect their money.

Red__Zed

often but not always

things get even trickier when you start comparing "real world" loaded flow numbers for the filters. That's a topic for someone with more schooling than me.