Is it really worth putting a Cold Air Intake on 370z and what HP gains

BrianMSmith · 02-12-2012, 07:13 PM

Not worth it, money much better kept in the bank or other investments.

PaulZ370 · 02-14-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianMSmith

Not worth it, money much better kept in the bank or other investments.

I couldn't disagree more. I put in the K&N Typhoon's (Short RAM), the Throttle Response has improved dramatically. Yes, because of the improved performance, I am having so much fun opening her up, that I am actually using more gas, but that is a conscious decision - If I wanted to, I could keep my foot out of it, play it real easy, and I'd probably see some modest Mileage Gains - but then I bought a Z, not a "Prius" - FUN is the objective, not "gas mileage". All of this said, the note from the exhaust upon acceleration alone is worth the modification!

Next mod - High Flow Cats and Cat Back Exhaust. And then, the engine will be breathing as efficiently as it can be...! I can't wait for the even more improved performance, and the better note.

By the way, DYNO day is March 24th. I'll get you hard results then with just the K&N Typhoons (a friend's Z), and then with all mods (My Z)...

gsxr750 · 02-14-2012, 02:30 PM

Its really hard to believe individual claims of vast improvements in speed power or accelleration for the CAI KITS, (humans are not biological engine dynos), unless your a "Terminator" under that skin.

So most of these claims are very subjective from individual to individual.

I would only go by actual proven dyno charts by reputable manufactures and private claims.

From what I discovered from different dyno posting here and other online sources, these cold air intake kits only really make 5-9 hp and with the addition of a good free flowing racing exhaust you could get it up to 10-15 hp.

The real problem is that there really is no magical cheap bolt on way to increase HP considerably, out side of TURBO CHARGING or NITROUS OXIDE and both of these effect engine life and reliability.

So if you PPL talk to any reputable engine or true performance shops that really road race or build cars and engines for winning racers and winning teams. They will tell there is no magic or bolt quick way to HP gains, the simple truth is that the engine needs to come apart pistons, cams, valves, head work, rods, stroking etc. Then along with some quality air intake kits and racing exhaust or turbo charging them, if necessary for the particular application.

You really can't trust to many of these little performance shops that just get a small rental building and buy a dyno. Then start doing all these simple bolt on mods and charging ppl for the dyno runs, along with the part sales and installation. Along side their 21" rim. tire selections and window tint.

Some of these small shops may know what they are doing , but most probably have little or no real world experience building or tunning engines.

You really want to find a shop that builds engines or sets up cars for most of the top regional racers etc. These shops can be found by going to a local track day event or getting a pit pass to some top amatuer events, most of the racers and mechanics will be glaid to share info on who to go to for the best work.

So in my opinion these current bolt on CAI and Cat back exhausts are just the new form of "Snake Oil " being sold to the young new car buyers.

If you have a few extra dollars and want to do something usefull for your 370z, then get a good clear car bra installed and some quality protective seat covers or leather seat upgrade.

Heres what I did, Nano Fusion Clear Bra on most of the cars front end and exposed panels,window tint and a set of Cover King ballistic black seat covers to protect the seats. Total cost $1000 for everything.

Speedy · 02-14-2012, 02:48 PM

Track times really tell the tale. Dynos can be manipulated way to easy.

For example, let the car completely cool and make a run. Then make 3-5 more back to back runs and the power will start to decline due to heat soak. What's to say the base line wasn't a dead hot run and the new and improved a bone cold run? A true 5HP gain now becomes 11-15 on paper.

Dynos are really nothing more than tuning tools. The times I've tested parts, I've done it back to back without ever unstrapping the car from the dyno. Same tire pressure, etc. I do three runs and take the average. That will give the best idea of what it actually gained. You also have to watch the correction factor and smoothing used as those can both affect the numbers.

Here's the testing I did on the Challenger with cat back and CAI.

<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="5" width="498" align="center"><tbody><tr><td width="120">

Stock Intake HP

</td> <td width="120">

Stock Intake Torque

</td> <td width="120">

Mopar CAI HP

</td> <td width="120">

Mopar CAI Torque

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Run 1: 335.08

</td> <td>

355.52

</td> <td>

340.19

</td> <td>

366.86

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Run 2: 333.97

</td> <td>

356.11

</td> <td>

340.14

</td> <td>

358.89

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Run 3: 335.77

</td> <td>

358.98

</td> <td>

340.73

</td> <td>

364.32

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Average: 334.94

</td> <td>

356.87

</td> <td>

340.35

</td> <td>

363.35

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Magnaflow 16515 HP

</td> <td>

Magnaflow 16515 Torque

</td> <td width="120">

Magnaflow 16515
and
Mopar CAI HP

</td> <td width="120">

Magnaflow 16515 and
Mopar CAI Torque

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Run 1: 347.01

</td> <td>

373.36

</td> <td>

347.98

</td> <td>

373.02

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Run 2: 344.40

</td> <td>

370.07

</td> <td>

346.64

</td> <td>

373.70

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Run 3: 343.85

</td> <td>

365.20

</td> <td>

347.01

</td> <td>

368.26

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

Average: 345.09

</td> <td>

369.54

</td> <td>

347.21

</td> <td>

371.66

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Now with the motor and blower it's right about 600RWHP and 600RWTQ.

ZMan8 · 02-14-2012, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr750

Its really hard to believe individual claims of vast improvements in speed power or accelleration for the CAI KITS, (humans are not biological engine dynos), unless your a "Terminator" under that skin.

So most of these claims are very subjective from individual to individual.

I would only go by actual proven dyno charts by reputable manufactures and private claims.

From what I discovered from different dyno posting here and other online sources, these cold air intake kits only really make 5-9 hp and with the addition of a good free flowing racing exhaust you could get it up to 10-15 hp.

The real problem is that there really is no magical cheap bolt on way to increase HP considerably, out side of TURBO CHARGING or NITROUS OXIDE and both of these effect engine life and reliability.

So if you PPL talk to any reputable engine or true performance shops that really road race or build cars and engines for winning racers and winning teams. They will tell there is no magic or bolt quick way to HP gains, the simple truth is that the engine needs to come apart pistons, cams, valves, head work, rods, stroking etc. Then along with some quality air intake kits and racing exhaust or turbo charging them, if necessary for the particular application.

You really can't trust to many of these little performance shops that just get a small rental building and buy a dyno. Then start doing all these simple bolt on mods and charging ppl for the dyno runs, along with the part sales and installation. Along side their 21" rim. tire selections and window tint.

Some of these small shops may know what they are doing , but most probably have little or no real world experience building or tunning engines.

You really want to find a shop that builds engines or sets up cars for most of the top regional racers etc. These shops can be found by going to a local track day event or getting a pit pass to some top amatuer events, most of the racers and mechanics will be glaid to share info on who to go to for the best work.

So in my opinion these current bolt on CAI and Cat back exhausts are just the new form of "Snake Oil " being sold to the young new car buyers.

If you have a few extra dollars and want to do something usefull for your 370z, then get a good clear car bra installed and some quality protective seat covers or leather seat upgrade.

Heres what I did, Nano Fusion Clear Bra on most of the cars front end and exposed panels,window tint and a set of Cover King ballistic black seat covers to protect the seats. Total cost $1000 for everything.

I have read many members on this forum who bought various CAI's, HFC's, and/or exhausts and put htem on the dyno for proven gains. Many of these people even ran comparison dyno tests on the same day to get more accurate results. Read all the reviews for things like stillen intakes, stillen exhaust, F.I. exhuast, berk exhaust, berk cats etc. (there are too many to list off) I have also seen people claim faster track times, better throttle response, etc. with these "bolt ons". Many people make in the range of 25-35 hp more with intake, hfc, and cbe (no tune) and usually can make more usable power, bring back low end torque, and make 5 addition hp with a tune on top of all those.

Speedy · 02-14-2012, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZMan8

I have read many members on this forum who bought various CAI's, HFC's, and/or exhausts and put htem on the dyno for proven gains. Many of these people even ran comparison dyno tests on the same day to get more accurate results. Read all the reviews for things like stillen intakes, stillen exhaust, F.I. exhuast, berk exhaust, berk cats etc. (there are too many to list off) I have also seen people claim faster track times, better throttle response, etc. with these "bolt ons". Many people make in the range of 25-35 hp more with intake, hfc, and cbe (no tune) and usually can make more usable power, bring back low end torque, and make 5 addition hp with a tune on top of all those.

I've seen a couple of folks mention better throttle response, but I'm confused by that. I've not looked at the stock intake system on mine too closely yet, but does it have mufflers or baffles? That would be about the only thing that could cause any sensation of better throttle response going with an aftermarket system that eliminated any such baffling allowing a more direct shot for the air to flow, but it would have to be a significant change. Cooler air alone isn't going to help the throttle any.

Like I said early on, the 370z is a MAF based system (mass air flow) so it's PCM can and will adjust to more air flow by adding necessary fuel and thus more power is made. Same with Mustangs and Camaros. However, I think it'd be hard to really say you feel 20HP. It's just not going to be that obvious when it comes to moving a 3300 lbs car. Under IDEAL conditions and perfect driving you'll only realize about a 2MPH faster ET in the 1/4 mile with an extra 20 horses. That's not a lot considering and I'd be shocked if one could actually feel it driving.

The best bang for the buck will likely be a custom tune. My next thing to look in to is the tuning on these cars to see what's what. I can tell ya on the Challenger, adding 1 degree of timing to the tune gives an extra 15-20HP. I'd imagine it's similar on the 370z, but you have to be careful and run good fuel. So if the stock tune is uber safe, and they normally are, you could fatten up the AFR a tick and keep it around 12-12:5 and add a couple degrees of timing and gain 30-40HP just in the tune alone, and likely with throttle by wire make the throttle a bit more sensitive in the program, and have a REAL gain in throttle response.

ZMan8 · 02-14-2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy

I've seen a couple of folks mention better throttle response, but I'm confused by that. I've not looked at the stock intake system on mine too closely yet, but does it have mufflers or baffles? That would be about the only thing that could cause any sensation of better throttle response going with an aftermarket system that eliminated any such baffling allowing a more direct shot for the air to flow, but it would have to be a significant change. Cooler air alone isn't going to help the throttle any.

Like I said early on, the 370z is a MAF based system (mass air flow) so it's PCM can and will adjust to more air flow by adding necessary fuel and thus more power is made. Same with Mustangs and Camaros. However, I think it'd be hard to really say you feel 20HP. It's just not going to be that obvious when it comes to moving a 3300 lbs car. Under IDEAL conditions and perfect driving you'll only realize about a 2MPH faster ET in the 1/4 mile with an extra 20 horses. That's not a lot considering and I'd be shocked if one could actually feel it driving.

The best bang for the buck will likely be a custom tune. My next thing to look in to is the tuning on these cars to see what's what. I can tell ya on the Challenger, adding 1 degree of timing to the tune gives an extra 15-20HP. I'd imagine it's similar on the 370z, but you have to be careful and run good fuel. So if the stock tune is uber safe, and they normally are, you could fatten up the AFR a tick and keep it around 12-12:5 and add a couple degrees of timing and gain 30-40HP just in the tune alone, and likely with throttle by wire make the throttle a bit more sensitive in the program, and have a REAL gain in throttle response.

From my reading on the forums better throttle response comes from the larger air filters that are less restrictive for the intakes. That's why many people claim drop-ins and post maf tubes almost equal the aftermarket CAI.
Aftermarket air filter allow the engine to take in more air and quicker, thereby giving the sensation of better throttle response. The car should revs up quicker. I do not know how it actually feels since I'm still running stock.

I think most people on here state you will not feel anything under 10hp. I would expect a 20+hp to be felt. The car should feel more lively.

From my understanding there is not much to tuning this car because they still haven't cracked vvel. Currently I would expect a tune to give around 10 hp if there are not other mods on the car my

Speedy · 02-14-2012, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZMan8

From my reading on the forums better throttle response comes from the larger air filters that are less restrictive for the intakes. That's why many people claim drop-ins and post maf tubes almost equal the aftermarket CAI.
Aftermarket air filter allow the engine to take in more air and quicker, thereby giving the sensation of better throttle response. The car should revs up quicker. I do not know how it actually feels since I'm still running stock.

I think most people on here state you will not feel anything under 10hp. I would expect a 20+hp to be felt. The car should feel more lively.

From my understanding there is not much to tuning this car because they still haven't cracked vvel. Currently I would expect a tune to give around 10 hp if there are not other mods on the car my

I don't buy it on the intake filters allowing better throttle response, but that's just my theory as of today. I'd need to see some data or drive one before and after to speak confidently on the subject.

As for a tune only giving 10HP...unless timing can't be modified that has to be inaccurate. Adding only 1 degree would make more of a difference than that.

02-14-2012, 02:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
gsxr750 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: west Posts: 443 Drives: 2012 370z man. sport Rep Power: 14	Its really hard to believe individual claims of vast improvements in speed power or accelleration for the CAI KITS, (humans are not biological engine dynos), unless your a "Terminator" under that skin. So most of these claims are very subjective from individual to individual. I would only go by actual proven dyno charts by reputable manufactures and private claims. From what I discovered from different dyno posting here and other online sources, these cold air intake kits only really make 5-9 hp and with the addition of a good free flowing racing exhaust you could get it up to 10-15 hp. The real problem is that there really is no magical cheap bolt on way to increase HP considerably, out side of TURBO CHARGING or NITROUS OXIDE and both of these effect engine life and reliability. So if you PPL talk to any reputable engine or true performance shops that really road race or build cars and engines for winning racers and winning teams. They will tell there is no magic or bolt quick way to HP gains, the simple truth is that the engine needs to come apart pistons, cams, valves, head work, rods, stroking etc. Then along with some quality air intake kits and racing exhaust or turbo charging them, if necessary for the particular application. You really can't trust to many of these little performance shops that just get a small rental building and buy a dyno. Then start doing all these simple bolt on mods and charging ppl for the dyno runs, along with the part sales and installation. Along side their 21" rim. tire selections and window tint. Some of these small shops may know what they are doing , but most probably have little or no real world experience building or tunning engines. You really want to find a shop that builds engines or sets up cars for most of the top regional racers etc. These shops can be found by going to a local track day event or getting a pit pass to some top amatuer events, most of the racers and mechanics will be glaid to share info on who to go to for the best work. So in my opinion these current bolt on CAI and Cat back exhausts are just the new form of "Snake Oil " being sold to the young new car buyers. If you have a few extra dollars and want to do something usefull for your 370z, then get a good clear car bra installed and some quality protective seat covers or leather seat upgrade. Heres what I did, Nano Fusion Clear Bra on most of the cars front end and exposed panels,window tint and a set of Cover King ballistic black seat covers to protect the seats. Total cost $1000 for everything. Last edited by gsxr750; 02-14-2012 at 02:52 PM.

02-14-2012, 02:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
Speedy Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: TN Posts: 390 Drives: check my signature Rep Power: 14	Track times really tell the tale. Dynos can be manipulated way to easy. For example, let the car completely cool and make a run. Then make 3-5 more back to back runs and the power will start to decline due to heat soak. What's to say the base line wasn't a dead hot run and the new and improved a bone cold run? A true 5HP gain now becomes 11-15 on paper. Dynos are really nothing more than tuning tools. The times I've tested parts, I've done it back to back without ever unstrapping the car from the dyno. Same tire pressure, etc. I do three runs and take the average. That will give the best idea of what it actually gained. You also have to watch the correction factor and smoothing used as those can both affect the numbers. Here's the testing I did on the Challenger with cat back and CAI. <table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="5" width="498" align="center"><tbody><tr><td width="120"> Stock Intake HP </td> <td width="120"> Stock Intake Torque </td> <td width="120"> Mopar CAI HP </td> <td width="120"> Mopar CAI Torque </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Run 1: 335.08 </td> <td> 355.52 </td> <td> 340.19 </td> <td> 366.86 </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Run 2: 333.97 </td> <td> 356.11 </td> <td> 340.14 </td> <td> 358.89 </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Run 3: 335.77 </td> <td> 358.98 </td> <td> 340.73 </td> <td> 364.32 </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Average: 334.94 </td> <td> 356.87 </td> <td> 340.35 </td> <td> 363.35 </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="5" width="600" align="center"><tbody><tr><td> Magnaflow 16515 HP </td> <td> Magnaflow 16515 Torque </td> <td width="120"> Magnaflow 16515 and Mopar CAI HP </td> <td width="120"> Magnaflow 16515 and Mopar CAI Torque </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Run 1: 347.01 </td> <td> 373.36 </td> <td> 347.98 </td> <td> 373.02 </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Run 2: 344.40 </td> <td> 370.07 </td> <td> 346.64 </td> <td> 373.70 </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Run 3: 343.85 </td> <td> 365.20 </td> <td> 347.01 </td> <td> 368.26 </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Average: 345.09 </td> <td> 369.54 </td> <td> 347.21 </td> <td> 371.66 </td> </tr> </tbody></table> Now with the motor and blower it's right about 600RWHP and 600RWTQ. Last edited by Speedy; 02-14-2012 at 02:51 PM.

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02-12-2012, 07:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
BrianMSmith Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: secret Posts: 267 Drives: 370Z, Ducati 748S Rep Power: 16	Not worth it, money much better kept in the bank or other investments.