That's not really what I mean, exactly. I guess what I'm saying is, the situation some have observed with the M370 is this: Stock tune before, bolt on the M370, stock tune after, got gains. Dyno-tuned before, bolt on the M370, re-Dyno-tune after, no gains. In other words, the M370's gains were entirely overlapped with effective dyno-tuning, making the mod pointless, especially considering a dyno-tune can be had for far less than the cost of a GT-R manifold and custom extra hardware.

If the GT-R manifold conversion makes true flow gains (as opposed to just tricking the stock ECU into leaner conditions at various points in the rev range), you should be able to dyno-tune a stock car w/ UpRev, install the GT-R manifold, and then re-dyno-tune again and still see gains from the new part.

Sorry for seeming negative, I'm really not :). I love the idea of this, and I suspect it's capable of real gains. Just want you to know ahead of time, that's what it's going to take to prove it: either you, or a customer, will have to do that dyno_tune->dyno_test->install_it->dyno_tune->dyno_test process.

no problem, I see your point !

what I will do is test the GTR manifold on my car first for fitment, etc. Then I will dyno my car which has the stock tune on it but already other mods like CAI, catback, NST pulleys and compare before and after installation.

If everything fits and the car runs perfectly with the new manifold I will ask one of my friends who will dyno-tune his car with catback and sport cats next week to stop by and have the GTR manifold installed.

He will then go to the dyno again and measure before re-tune, then re-dyno-tune with the manifold and have another dyno pass.

I hope that is what you are looking for !

Chris

@Chrisw
I apologize for not having at least a ball park figure for you currently but today I don't even have a clue how much the fabrication of the flanges plus welding will cost me, so whatever number I give you now I might regret later.

Plus we have never installed at least the (not build yet) prototype so it is possible that during the installation and testing we discover that additional small parts are needed which I will put in the package to give you a real complete bolt-on solution as good as it can get.

Please bear with me for another couple of days - we are almost there and my plan is that before end of January the final product and installation package is ready to be build with prices and dyno results.

No worries bud! Just wanted to see if anything had been tossed around yet. :tup:

Nice to see that someone who is undertaking this project actually showing Progress. :tup: Can't wait to see the final product. :excited:

only a quick update - I have currently about 25 cnc companies I wait for a price quote for machining the flanges, etc. - hope to start production by end of the week.

meanwhile the fuel rails have arrived - we will start to modify them for the 370Z tomorrow !

http://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/...20535833_n.jpg

Chris

It's nice to see so much progress.

Yes :)

+1 :tup:

No kidding. It's so nice to see a project go from an idea to reality in such a short period of time.

Seriously, the time from concept to actually holding the prototype in hand is moving remarkably fast. Looking forward to your results/finished product.

thank you for all the warm words again - currently I discover it being real hard to find a company who is willing to make an affordable offer to make the prototype flanges. They simply do not understand that I can and/or will only order quantities after the prototype has been tested and slightly modified for perfect fit and function and that it doesn't make any sense to pay thousands for the first try which may end in the basket for either not being 100% accurate out of the drawing or doesn't bring performance gains in the real world.

But I have dozens of requests still unanswered so I'm hoping to have a good offer soon. I even think about buying my own 5-axis CNC machine ;)

will keep you posted !

Chris

PS: as my car currently has no intake manifold and I'm not willing to install the stock plenum again I definitely WILL find a way to at least built the prototype for myself ;)

Any news? Very interesting thread

Good progress! I'm in for results.

Not trying to be negative, but it's going to be tough to find a shop that will make this prototype for you on a small budget. It's a large business risk for them not knowing if they will get the follow-on orders. The NRE cost for a one off part is mostly what is driving the cost up...that and 5 axis time is never cheap (don't think you actually need 5-axis capability to make this part as a one off). You would be better off if you could find a friend (or someone here on the forum) with access to a machine shop that will do the labor for free/cheap for this prototype. Even better if you have access to MastercamX (or equivalent) and can do the NC programming yourself. For a cheap fit check, you could always invest a few hundred bucks to get a plastic rapid prototype made.

Good luck and hope you are able to get your test part fabbed up soon!

Any luck finding someone to fab up the prototype?

Is this project dead?

I doubt it, but it has probably run into some practical snags on the CNC work from the sound of it.

Chris: have you considered doing initial fitment with something cheaper? e.g. someone may be willing to cut (or 3D-Print) your specs out of plastic for test-fitting and design revision. You might not be able to dyno-test that version, but you could at least get everything lined up so that the first metal version fits correctly and just needs the dyno testing.

Thanks for the updates and glad to hear that your persevering even though no one is responding to you. The 5-axis CNC machine are quite pricy so I could understand why they charge an arm and a leg for any jobs involving it, where I'm from not too many places actually have a 5 axis, wish I could help.

use superglue and duct tape!


kidding this is cool props to you!

Yeah... a 5-axis Mikron is around 500K... would make more sense to buy a few GTR's than a 5 axis for the manifold. What about doing an investment cast? Have a wax RP'd and slurried. This would most likely be more affordable. There has to be tons of foundries over there for manifolds. Keep up the good work and good luck!

sorry for the delay guys, I was very busy with other projects during the days so here is the update:

as told it is a lot harder than I thought finding a company who is able and willing to produce the CNC parts for me for a reasonable price.

The idea of making a cast form is good, but first I need to finish at least the prototype so I can test fit and (more important) test drive the GT-R manifold with my adapter to check how it performs.

A cast has a big initial investement even though the mass production is a lot cheaper later on. But before I spend thousands for a form I need to verify if the design we came up with is accurate and if everything works good in the real world.

Test fitment could be done by a wax or PU form but not the test drive and dyno testing. And of course that is what everybody is looking for before I can take orders for the new manifold adapter. I hate the idea of selling something which hasnt prooven to be worth the money under real conditions. No offence against Motordyne, but obviously that is what they did because every article and thread I have read about their M370 talks that you loose power even with a proper tune and the gains in some rpm's are not really worth the effort - and I dont want to offer just another expensive part people are not happy with in overall.

But there may be light at the end of the tunnel, I spoke to a good friend at HWA (they build the SLS GT3 for 24h races and design parts for AMG) and he told me we might be able to lasersinter the complete lower intake manifold out of aluminum powder and this part can withstand at least 15psi and would be the same quality as the stock plastic cast 370Z intake plenum.

I'm currently evaluating what design changes have to be made in order to laserprint the manifold and what the price would be for a prototype.

Will keep you posted !

Chris

Sounds good, thanks for the update.

Awesome, keep it up :)

good job ! dont give up :tup:

Thank you for all your time! And don't give up!

Any news?

^^this

Any update on this???

sorry for being so quite for the last weeks - but after I found out that it may be harder to have something produced rather than research and develop I wanted to make sure there actually is some real news to share with you.

well, here is a first glance on the prototype currently in production. Will keep you posted as soon as we have completed the whole unit and going to test fit it on my Z !

http://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/...76895445_o.jpg

Chris

Custom Intake for 370Z engine
 

I have a few inquiries:

• Is the intake to be a two piece design?
• Is the upper intake plenum to be attached to the stock throttle bodies in the stock location?
• Is the intake plenum to have only two throttle bodies (i.e. stock set-up) or six individual throttle bodies?
• Are the upper intake plenum tube lengths adjustable?
  Have you consider fabricating the intake upper plenum from ceramic material. Porsche did this on the 944 turbo.

[/LIST]

:yum:

If this pans out I'm gonna buy it.

Over and out...

ftfy

This adapter is simply a replacement of the lower intake manifold to allow us to bolt on the R35 GT-R intake plenum (collector), and that's just the beginning.

:iagree: Can't wait! :tup:

thats true - this lower intake manifold will allow you to "simply" install the factory GT-R R35 plenum on the VQ37HR engine.

When everything is finished, test fitted and dyno tested I hope that I can offer a kit which consists of:
- the CNC-machined / hand-welded full aluminum lower intake adapter VQ37HR heads-to-VQ38DETT plenum
- 2 fuel rails with your choice of -6AN / -8AN / -10AN fittings and lines
- all needed gaskets, bolts, washers, etc.
- detailled pictured installation manual (maybe I will do a vid for youtube also)

key aspects of the conversion kit are:
- designed and development with CAD
- computer-simulated and calculated flow optimization
- smooth edges, improved injector spray, equal length runners, largest possible diameter runners, perfect gasket match, blue printed, etc.
- CNC-machined and hand-welded in Germany by a company which produces turbine parts for Airbus aircrafts
- you can use your stock injectors, stock FPR, etc. or you can easily convert to a dual feed / return system
- by using -6AN billet aluminum fuel rails with the stock injectors you optimize fuel delivery even with the stock fuel system
- all sensors, vac lines, etc. can be attached
- stock throttle bodies will fit the GT-R R35 manifold w/out modifications, you only have to shorten your stock intake hoses / aftermarket intake pipes

what I will do for testing is the following:
- dyno my car with the stock manifold
- dyno my car with the GT-R R35 manifold and adapter installed
- dyno my car after a custom tune re-flash with UpRev

I have no real clue yet if and what this conversion will do to a NA car (which I have currently) but I'm 100% sure that a turbo'ed or supercharged car will benefit a lot from this upgrade !

currently I'm waiting for the parts to arrive from the production / assembly, then I will post more pics and keep you updated !

Chris

1. Which is the stock size, and for those looking to do this to a stock motor, would they see any improvement in choosing a different size?

2. Does this mean if you get an aftermarket intake Prior to installing this, you will have to trim it to fit? So it won't necessarily be "plug and play"?

3. This is for the lower piece only correct, if you plan to do the conversion you will need to order a GT-R Upper manifold and cover still correct?

Can't wait to see the final product/numbers Chris!

In for victory! Really excited to see this produce some results.

Can't wait to see this!

1. well, as the stock fuel rail can't be re-used for fitting issues your choice of two new billet aluminum rails will be included. The smallest rails are -6AN which is slightly more diameter than the stock rails have. I have not tested or evaluated if the stock rails cause any problem but at least it won't hurt.

Of course when it comes to larger injectors you will benefit a lot and as those rails are avail up to -10AN there is much room to grow.

We will use Aeroquip fittings and lines to connect the rails to the stock or an aftermarket FPR - a hard line with fittings will be used to connect the rails from right to left. So it is very easy to run two separate lines to each rail if you want to upgrade to a dual feed system later.

2. yes thats true as the position of the throttle bodies doesnt match the stock location - they are about 5cm / 1.9" more forward towards the front. So if you have like a STILLEN GEN3 you need to cut the pipes by this length to keep the stock MAF sensors in place.

I have a STILLEN GEN3 here myself so when the installation process starts you will see pictures of what modifications are needed. But I try to keep the installation effort as low as and to make this as much PnP as possible.

3. correct, this is "just" the adapter so you are able to install the GT-R manifold. Many people asked me meanwhile if it won't be easier / more effective to do a whole new manifold lower AND upper part together.

Well, of course we could have designed a whole new part and but the idea was to make the GT-R plenum fit the 370Z - that was and still is my personal challenge and whatever comes out at the end of the day I will achieve this goal.

Furthermore our engine and the GT-R engine arent so much different and with the GT-R intake NISSAN developed supports well over 1000HP in the most current setups from tuners like PHR, BL, GReddy, AMS, AAM, etc. - they all keep the stock intake manifold and plenum so I guess and cant be too wrong.

BTW the stock R35 plenum is about $600 new from NISSAN but you can find it around eBay for less than half this price.

Chris

this would be a fun mod for a frontier :stirthepot:

in for results, good luck :tup:

1. Will the larger fuel lines/rails/injectors be too much for the 'stock' pump to power for those remaining NA for the time being? Or would it be something that can be included in the maps when getting UpRev tuned?

2. Looking forward for the complete install. :tup:


Two thoughts, is this a project for someone considering staying NA to even consider if the possible gain was marginal, and just made a much better looking intake manifold for aesthetics?

Secondly, With the GTR having a different strut bar than the Z, would it be somewhat of a tragedy to get this, and then just be covering the manifold with the stock strut bar? I wonder if there was a way to make another strut bar that would go 'around' the cover vs directly over it... :icon08: :confused: