ART PIPES VS LTH (F.I or PPE)
 

Planning to get either the ART pipes or the Long tube headers. I've done the search but couldn't find an answer to my question, which one nets more gains?

LTH's and TP will fail for emissions but my car won't be tested for another two years, but its easier to swap the TP's than LTHs.

What would be the best setup.
1.Stock with ART
2.Shorty header(like STillen) with ART
3. F.I. LTH
4. PPE LTH

Best gains will be LTHs

If you plan on swapping back to stock/legal for emissions testing, I wouldn't do LTH. The install/removal on LTH is pretty intensive work. Test pipes and cats are far easier to swap around.

I don't know that the headers are worth that much money for the extra hp you gain with a CBE already installed... i've never seen the numbers anyway. That said, I don't know how much hp you gain with ART pipes installed with a CBE either. I'm getting the ART pipes in a few days and installing them as my first mod. I may later get some stillen headers so I can still change out to the cats when emissions time comes around in 2 years.

Short headers by themselves do not provide much of a documented gain, combined with other upgrades are worth it. Yet then you are at the point of just going LTH which show large gains, but of course emissions is a concern.

LTH's will most probably be the best gains. theDreamer has a set for sale as well :p

Go LTH's other than the install which is a bitch they are hands down the best bang for the buck especially if you plan on staying naturally aspirated.

I heard that stillen's didn't have a very large gain... naturally the LT's are going to have more because they are a header and TP all in one basically... if Stillen's with a set of ART pipes on a stock set-up were tested, you might the comparable gains.

Re-read what I said.
Also, LTH v. other options have been done and the LTH still have larger gains.

Motordyne will give you a good discount on a set of ART pipes if you can do a dyno comparison of them against LTH's and post your results here.

I love my long FI long tubes the labor is high to have them installed. Many shops don't want to install them

In NJ new car don't need emission test till 5 years after purchase. Sooo not worrying about it yet

Installation time and cost should be same with either lth or Shorty Header. Stillen does free some HP, plus add the ART pipes should net almost same as LTH or little less?!
But I think with any test pipe its easier to swap back to HFC or stock cats when its emissions time.
Is it possible to add a catalytic converter with a LTH setup in the front or mid pipe sections of the exhaust, this way I can add the cats right before emission testing. It'll cost money but I get to use LTH's.

theDreamer: do you still have your LTH?
Motorydyne ; send me the discounted price.

I still have my LTH, a few people have been interested but no one has bought them.

I wish I had the money to spare and make a comparasion between my PPE and those FI LTH !
my bet would go for PPE but no one ever did the test but knowing the advantage on the steped header , I went with PPE.

You could do the 2 into 1 XYZ pipe with HFC. I think the part of the mid pipe is interchangable between straight pipe, HFC and resonated straight pipe. Would be easier to swap out than the stock cat location.

I would definitely do Art pipes if I was in your position. They will take an hour or so to remove and replace with stock cats for emissions versus many many hours and a complex installation process for long tube headers. From least amount of power to most amount of power, this is what I think:

stock cats < high flow cats < test pipes < Art pipes < LTHs.

Or for torque:

Stock cats < test pipes < high flow cats < Art pipes < LTHs

However, you have to realize that the difference between Art pipes and LTHs will be a few wheel horsepower at most.

Exactly. That is the primary reason for putting the HFC on the XYZ pipe.

Secondly, it makes more power by moving the HFC away from the engine.

Thirdly, it greatly increases the life expectancy of the HFC because exhaust gas temperature is about 300'F-500'F lower at the end of the merge collector.

BTW just ordered the ART pipes today, and just got a message saying they will ship today. Great service!

I did read what you said.... I SAID that ART PIPES with Stillens... I didn't say just other set-ups... ART pipes are PROVEN to put out higher gains than your standard test pipes or HFC's.... so unless this specific set-up has been done under the same conditions then it's speculation... thank you.

all you're doing is trying to put a plug in to sell your LTH's.. why are you selling them if they put out such good gains exactly?

Plug for my headers, I was not the one who mentioned my sale. People can find them in the FS thread on their own if they want them.
Why I am changing? I have a SC and they work fantastically, but I am moving towards something more than just gains as I always have. Balance is key with my car, now just in weight or power but also sound and style. It all has to work together to achieve what I want. Power is only a small percentage of what one can do to a car.

Speculation is what makes it all go around. ART pipes I am sure show better gains on some setups and less on others. It is like I have seen other products do the same thing, every car, dyno, day is different and you must take each result posted at that value for that setup.

that's all well and good... my point is simply that as far as I know back to back LTH's vs ART pipes with Stillen headers have not been compared.

all great suggestions guys. Wish had the money and time to do all comparisions but leaning towards Stock/Stillen header plus ART.

I can understand that. It would actually be a big project to do such a comparison and its not exactly something most people would have the time for.

I'll leave this open to anyone interested in doing such a comparison. It would make a valuable comparative data point for the community.

What are you currently using in the location for the stock cats? Stock cats, HFC's or test pipes?

agree there... but headers will probably be the last mod I do... it's going to be to install the ART pipes, and then buy and install the XYZ pipe and then get a CBE. Then intakes... Perhaps Tony you all may have your intake finished or close to it?

By the way Tony, I was wondering... if I don't want a loud exhaust... and since the ART pipes obviously are not a hfc... would I be better with the XYZ with HFC or resonated? I guess resonated since I could always put my OE cats back on right?

Intake comes after the exhaust. As far as HFC Vs resonator on the XYZ pipe... I would suggest the HFC. HFC because it will at least clean up the smell. For some people this is important.

The smell of test pipes or ART pipes doesn't bother me at all but it is an issue for some. It depends a lot on your personal preference and smog regulations.

any idea of power gain on resonated vs hfc?

The XYZ HFC drops 3-4 HP relative to the XYZ resonator or XYZ straight pipe.
Normally a HFC would drop more than 3-4 HP relative to a test pipe but the XYZ HFC is so much farther away from the engine there is less pressure drop and power loss.

losing power sucks :(

Currently I am o stock header/cats as I decide what I plan to do. I am thinking a RTP with stock headers and maybe a whole new exhaust.

Another factor to think about: You can get away with running the stock ECU tune with most simple bolt-ons (e.g. HFCs, etc), but a full set of intake/exhaust boltons including LTH pretty much requires a dyno tune. I know because I'm running LTH on my stock tune right now (temporarily), and the bottom end of the rev range is horrid once the engine is heat-soaked, it's worse than stock :)

Any idea how far you guys are from releasing the intakes? I was going to buy intakes sometime next year, probably around February for my birthday. Was going to go with the Stillen G3's, but if your's are being released sometime after that I will probably wait to see the results before making my purchase.

That's the cost of having a catalytic converter in the XYZ pipe.
Put that same catalytic converter into test pipes near the engine (like regular HFC's) and it drops 6+ HP.

Tony,
You don't seem to have a bung for the o2 sensor in the XYZ pipe, can you get by without placing it after HFC? And do the ART pipes attach to the factory exhaust mounting bracket?

Stay in touch as you change your setup or plan to make changes. Particularly if you change the whole exhaust too. I'll have something very interesting for you to dyno test with your SC.

There is no bung on the XYZ. Its not needed if you have ART pipes where they have the bung/non-fowler built in. With the CEL kept off, there is no need for additional bungs unless you have some kind of special set up like what is typically seen with forced induction systems.

Currently running F.I. LTH's with the GT Haus exhaust. I love it! Granted the LTH's won't work with a twin turbo setup but then again I don't know if the art pipes would either due to the increase in heat, maybe Tony can chime in on that.

Also Tony, I'm using the GTHaus front Y-pipe it comes out into a 3" collector that connects to the 2nd mid pipe, is your xyz resonated pipe also a 3" outlet? Also do you think I'll lose any hp if I went from the unresonated pipe to your resonated pipe?