Intakes... are they ALL just a scam?

Pelican170 · 07-15-2011, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisuke149

so.. why would the stillens gain be lower when you have an exhaust and not the post maf tubes?

truthfully the gains by both would be lower (if the post maf even gives any gains)

Correct, but im pretty sure the dyno that someone on here had for the post MAF tubes showed like a 10 - 12 hp gain after he had exhaust parts, so that makes them all very close in hp when said and done. Granted, i do feel 10 - 12 hp for those tubes seems high...

ChipsWithDips · 07-15-2011, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian370z

There is a law of diminishing returns as you stack up mods as the engine reaches peak volumetric efficiency. This is essentially because the engine has a set volume (displacement) and while it is impossible to achieve 100% VE due to turbulence/friction/leaks, you can get closer with breathing mods on the intake and exhaust sides. I'm not an expert on this at all, but one of the variables in getting better volumetric effeciency is not only total air flow volume, but also density.

Actually it is possible to get > 100% VE through certian rpm ranges on an NA car with because of things like intake runners tuned to resonate at specific RPMs or a true ram air intake can slightly pressurize the intake stroke. Couple that with properly tuned/sized cams, good exhaust scavenging, and overall low flow restriction and you can do it.

christian370z · 07-15-2011, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

I have the 7AT so I don't think those mods can be applied to my Z :|

I heard that lighter pullies have a similar effect on engine response and even open up a bit of power. Most comments I have seen said that while they are not going to be as big of a difference as the flywheel/clutch combo, they are somewhat close.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

Wait, they take in cooler air than the injens? I'm not sure I buy that. They're in a better position because they're not susceptible to hydro-lock, from what I understand.

It is not just the temperature, but the filter location of the G3s also will net a much larger ram air effect once the car is at speed as they are placed directly behind the biggest opening on the entire front of the car. The Injens are still partially linked to the hot engine bay even thought they are way at the bottom while the G3's filter locations are completely separate.

There is probably not an appreciable difference in intakes temps between the G3 and Injen intakes, but the ram air effect of the G3's filter location will still give it the edge in my mind.

christian370z · 07-15-2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChipsWithDips

Actually it is possible to get > 100% VE through certian rpm ranges on an NA car with because of things like intake runners tuned to resonate at specific RPMs or a true ram air intake can slightly pressurize the intake stroke. Couple that with properly tuned/sized cams, good exhaust scavenging, and overall low flow restriction and you can do it.

Hmmm, that's pretty cool! I didn't know that, it makes sense though.

XwChriswX · 07-15-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAGAWAGA

I used to believe this too, but after this thread Stillen vs. Smoky: your take on intakes im kinda confused on how intakes work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian370z

Unless there is another factor involved in that test, I do not believe those dyno numbers. While the TS intake shroud will block a lot of radiant heat, it is still not sealed and is sucking in hot air from the engine bay. The TS intake is still an expensive glorified short ram intake most of which have been shown to have no power gains or even hurt power.

This is why I said back on Page 1 the only SRI claiming to beat the Stillens is the TS one, however there have been no independent dyno's to support this.

b1adesofcha0s · 07-15-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian370z

I heard that lighter pullies have a similar effect on engine response and even open up a bit of power. Most comments I have seen said that while they are not going to be as big of a difference as the flywheel/clutch combo, they are somewhat close.

It is not just the temperature, but the filter location of the G3s also will net a much larger ram air effect once the car is at speed as they are placed directly behind the biggest opening on the entire front of the car. The Injens are still partially linked to the hot engine bay even thought they are way at the bottom while the G3's filter locations are completely separate.

There is probably not an appreciable difference in intakes temps between the G3 and Injen intakes, but the ram air effect of the G3's filter location will still give it the edge in my mind.

Yeah I've heard about the pulleys and I think it's definitely something I could do. Thanks for reminding me about them, I had actually forgotten

Methodical4u · 07-15-2011, 10:30 PM

So with the Stillen G3's... does putting them on an otherwie stock Z yield the most gains? Like would I see let's just say 20 whp on a car that's stock, but if I had an exhaust I might see a little less HP because the exhaust is already more efficient.

Methodical4u · 07-15-2011, 10:59 PM

another question is... if I went with Injens instead... can the filters be taken off and cleaned without removing the bumper?

christian370z · 07-16-2011, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methodical4u

another question is... if I went with Injens instead... can the filters be taken off and cleaned without removing the bumper?

I believe so, but you shouldn't be intimidated by that part of the G3s. You don't need to clean the filters for 30-50,000 miles and to be honest, taking off the bumper on these cars is extremely easy. I did it in 30 minutes the first time I removed it and after a few times, can probably have the bumper off in 10-15 minutes at a decent pace.

Zedx · 07-16-2011, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8Killer

Why did you decide to go with Z1 flywheel? I just bought the JWT combo.

the Z1 is a solid 1 piece that last longer. The jwt is so light and with high pressure plate it wears out twice as fast. I drove both and liked the acceleration pattern of the z1 better.

Methodical4u · 07-16-2011, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian370z

I believe so, but you shouldn't be intimidated by that part of the G3s. You don't need to clean the filters for 30-50,000 miles and to be honest, taking off the bumper on these cars is extremely easy. I did it in 30 minutes the first time I removed it and after a few times, can probably have the bumper off in 10-15 minutes at a decent pace.

The biggest issue with the G3's or the Injens is that most of the power gains I have seen are at the 7k rpm range... I don't run the car up there very often so another intake set-up seems like it might be more for me... I don't know where the drop-ins with post maf tubes makes it's power, but i'll have to look into it all.

pg6speed · 07-16-2011, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelican170

I thought ive heard that these gains are like 14 - 18 or whatever but thats on stock cars. Once you put exhaust pieces on they drop to close to what the Post MAF tubes create with exhaust pieces on. Thats why people go for them. Has anyone with exhaust pieces on their cars dyno'd before and after with any intakes?

I have FI LTH and non resonated TDX. I dynoed without the intake then installed the G3 while the car was still on the dyno and did a few more pulls. The G3 gained another 10hp over the previous pulls.

FL 4Motion · 07-16-2011, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pg6speed

I have FI LTH and non resonated TDX. I dynoed without the intake then installed the G3 while the car was still on the dyno and did a few more pulls. The G3 gained another 10hp over the previous pulls.

Good info, and pretty much inline w/what I'd have guessed, So the G3's are worth around 10whp when in conjunction w/other mods. Wonder how the drop ins w/post maf tubes would stack up under the same conditons, I'd bet they'd be worth around 6whp or so.

Methodical4u · 07-17-2011, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

Good info, and pretty much inline w/what I'd have guessed, So the G3's are worth around 10whp when in conjunction w/other mods. Wonder how the drop ins w/post maf tubes would stack up under the same conditons, I'd bet they'd be worth around 6whp or so.

I guess the best way would be to look at people's sigs and see what kind of numbers with each that people are getting with similar mods. It's also going to be what works best for each person... if you have the drop in's and PMT's and have 5 or 10 less hp, is it worth the extra 250.00 or more once you sell your drop ins and pick up a set of G3's? To some it is and some it's not... with an NA car I have learned that every hp is hard to gain so take advantage of what you can get... but you'd be better off to just get it right off the bat instead of wasting money buying something else first.

christian370z · 07-17-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methodical4u

I guess the best way would be to look at people's sigs and see what kind of numbers with each that people are getting with similar mods. It's also going to be what works best for each person... if you have the drop in's and PMT's and have 5 or 10 less hp, is it worth the extra 250.00 or more once you sell your drop ins and pick up a set of G3's? To some it is and some it's not... with an NA car I have learned that every hp is hard to gain so take advantage of what you can get... but you'd be better off to just get it right off the bat instead of wasting money buying something else first.

It's hard to compare though because people use different dynos which would be different brands (dynojet, dyno dynamics, mustang dyno etc.), as well as have different internal calibrations.

Check out this blog and the dyno results. All mods are posted for each car and it is on the same dyno which will help you compare:

370ZG37 (Z34 & V36) | Specialty-Z

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07-15-2011, 10:30 PM	#52 (permalink)
Methodical4u A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,393 Drives: 11 370 6mt pw w/sp Rep Power: 16	So with the Stillen G3's... does putting them on an otherwie stock Z yield the most gains? Like would I see let's just say 20 whp on a car that's stock, but if I had an exhaust I might see a little less HP because the exhaust is already more efficient.

07-15-2011, 10:59 PM	#53 (permalink)
Methodical4u A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,393 Drives: 11 370 6mt pw w/sp Rep Power: 16	another question is... if I went with Injens instead... can the filters be taken off and cleaned without removing the bumper?