Stillen HFC vs. BERK HFC

SOLISIMO · 04-13-2009, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

If you compare the photos of the two carefully, it appears that the Berks have two things that the Stillens don't. First, the port for the O2 sensors on the Berks are extended out to make them more resistant to throwing CELs. Secondly, notice that the Berks have a second set of O2 sensor ports built in for hooking up wide-band O2 sensors on a dyno, whereas the Stillens do not. Just making a couple of observations.

Edit: They also appear to yield less gain and are significantly more expensive than Berk. (Sorry Stillen/Josh/Kyle -- you know I love you guys but I have to call it the way I see it.)

On my G37 forums Berks HFC's are infamous for throwing codes almost all of them. The popular brand that they seem to be going with are Fast Intentions

semtex · 04-13-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOLISIMO

On my G37 forums Berks HFC's are infamous for throwing codes almost all of them. The popular brand that they seem to be going with are Fast Intentions

My HFCs have yet to throw a single code on me. Of course, that's not to say it won't happen in the future (knock on wood). In any case, if the Berks throw codes even when they went to the trouble of extending the port out to give the O2 sensors some protection, what does that say about a design that doesn't do that at all?

SOLISIMO · 04-13-2009, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

My HFCs have yet to throw a single code on me. Of course, that's not to say it won't happen in the future (knock on wood). In any case, if the Berks throw codes even when they went to the trouble of extending the port out to give the O2 sensors some protection, what does that say about a design that doesn't do that at all?

I aggree, Im not picking sides just giving the information to help you guys that I have recieved and seen. Like I said my Ichibas have the extended port and havnt had a light in over 1k miles

NIZMOZ · 04-13-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOLISIMO

On my G37 forums Berks HFC's are infamous for throwing codes almost all of them. The popular brand that they seem to be going with are Fast Intentions

This will happen with all HFCs as the O2s on the HR motors are more sensitive. Depends on the engine and time as mine didn't do it for 3000 miles and it popped on one day and kept coming on till I had to put the SS Wool in.

SOLISIMO · 04-13-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ

This will happen with all HFCs as the O2s on the HR motors are more sensitive. Depends on the engine and time as mine didn't do it for 3000 miles and it popped on one day and kept coming on till I had to put the SS Wool in.

Good looking on out on that wool trick, and yes Berk has been fixing their CEL problem, but like I said im not leaning towards any of the two. I just hope BERK would make some headers for our cars

wstar · 04-13-2009, 12:05 PM

FWIW, I've had zero CELs on my Berk HFCs, and they've been on the car now for about 1,400 miles. Those miles include a wide variety of driving styles as well as several OBD-II driving cycles (my little OBD-II unit shows me driving cycle progress). Obviously in the pictures we have, the Stillen unit doesn't have an extended tube for the O2 like the Berk one does, but I don't know what that really means in terms of results until we get some people independently testing them.

Minicobra1 · 04-13-2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

If you compare the photos of the two carefully, it appears that the Berks have two things that the Stillens don't. First, the port for the O2 sensors on the Berks are extended out to make them more resistant to throwing CELs. Secondly, notice that the Berks have a second set of O2 sensor ports built in for hooking up wide-band O2 sensors on a dyno, whereas the Stillens do not. Just making a couple of observations.

Edit: They also appear to yield less gain and are significantly more expensive than Berk. (Sorry Stillen/Josh/Kyle -- you know I love you guys but I have to call it the way I see it.)

Yes, I noticed the ports for the O2 sensors too, does that make a huge difference in throwing a CEL??

SOLISIMO · 04-13-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minicobra1

Yes, I noticed the ports for the O2 sensors too, does that make a huge difference in throwing a CEL??

I have test pipes with that desing and havnt thrown a code

semtex · 04-13-2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minicobra1

Yes, I noticed the ports for the O2 sensors too, does that make a huge difference in throwing a CEL??

Well, I'll share my own past experience and allow you all to draw your own conclusions. On my 350, I ran a set of Kinetix resonated test pipes. They did not have the extended O2 port, and they'd throw CELs every 200 miles or so. The remedy was what's known as the 'non-fouler' or 'anti-fouler' method, where you take two anti-foulers and drill one out so that the other one fits into it. What you do is screw one end into the O2 sensor port, and then screw the O2 sensor into the other anti-fouler. Now, the anti-fouler you're screwing the O2 sensor is not the one directly connected the port. You're screwing the O2 sensor into an anti-fouler that is screwed into another anti-fouler, which is screwed into the port. The anti-fouler that you're connecting into, then, is 'nested' into the other anti-fouler, so it's protected from the actual exhaust gasses. Net result -- no more CELs. By welding an extended O2 sensor port right onto the HFCs, Berk is trying to make our lives easier by replicating this anti-fouler method without us having to manually go buy the anti-foulers, drill one out, etc. Now, I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think they may be missing the 'nesting' part of it. In other words, the O2 sensors are being situated back away from the direct line of exhaust gas, but I can't remember if the end of that extended port is actually blocked off or not. If it isn't, then gasses aren't actually being completely blocked off from the O2 sensors. So that would explain why some people are still seeing CELs. If it is blocked off, then it's properly replicating the non-fouler method.

Here's a DIY link to the non-fouler method:

Stop CEL With Test Pipes - Nissan 350Z & 370Z Wiki

tranceformer · 04-13-2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Well, I'll share my own past experience and allow you all to draw your own conclusions. On my 350, I ran a set of Kinetix resonated test pipes. They did not have the extended O2 port, and they'd throw CELs every 200 miles or so. The remedy was what's known as the 'non-fouler' or 'anti-fouler' method, where you take two anti-foulers and drill one out so that the other one fits into it. What you do is screw one end into the O2 sensor port, and then screw the O2 sensor into the other anti-fouler. Now, the anti-fouler you're screwing the O2 sensor is not the one directly connected the port. You're screwing the O2 sensor into an anti-fouler that is screwed into another anti-fouler, which is screwed into the port. The anti-fouler that you're connecting into, then, is 'nested' into the other anti-fouler, so it's protected from the actual exhaust gasses. Net result -- no more CELs. By welding an extended O2 sensor port right onto the HFCs, Berk is trying to make our lives easier by replicating this anti-fouler method without us having to manually go buy the anti-foulers, drill one out, etc. Now, I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think they may be missing the 'nesting' part of it. In other words, the O2 sensors are being situated back away from the direct line of exhaust gas, but I can't remember if the end of that extended port is actually blocked off or not. If it isn't, then gasses aren't actually being completely blocked off from the O2 sensors. So that would explain why some people are still seeing CELs. If it is blocked off, then it's properly replicating the non-fouler method.

Here's a DIY link to the non-fouler method:

Stop CEL With Test Pipes - Nissan 350Z & 370Z Wiki

I did the same with my 350z when I added a set of Fast Intentions testpipes. It worked just fine. It was a cheap and easy fix.

But for some reason when we installed a set of Helix v2 testpipes on my friend's 350z it didn't seem to work that well. The helix testpipes he had came with the built-in extensions for the o2 sensors, they kept throwing a code for some reason.

I never did like those kind of test pipes, I prefer the ones without the o2 sensor extensions.

semtex · 04-13-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranceformer

I did the same with my 350z when I added a set of Fast Intentions testpipes. It worked just fine. It was a cheap and easy fix.

But for some reason when we installed a set of Helix v2 testpipes on my friend's 350z it didn't seem to work that well. The helix testpipes he had came with the built-in extensions for the o2 sensors, they kept throwing a code for some reason.

I never did like those kind of test pipes, I prefer the ones without the o2 sensor extensions.

On these Helix test pipes, do you by chance remember whether or not the extensions were closed off at the end where they connected into the test pipes? I think that might be the key.

kenhdcgov · 09-09-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranceformer

I did the same with my 350z when I added a set of Fast Intentions testpipes. It worked just fine. It was a cheap and easy fix.

But for some reason when we installed a set of Helix v2 testpipes on my friend's 350z it didn't seem to work that well. The helix testpipes he had came with the built-in extensions for the o2 sensors, they kept throwing a code for some reason.

I never did like those kind of test pipes, I prefer the ones without the o2 sensor extensions.

Hmmm!! So the question is was the problem resolved for the 370s or do he Berks still throw CEL warnings??

Thanks

ssqpolo · 04-13-2009, 09:04 AM

solismo...my CEL went off within 2 days of driving with my berk test pipes. tell me ur secret!! i hate staring at that light

NIZMOZ · 04-13-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssqpolo

solismo...my CEL went off within 2 days of driving with my berk test pipes. tell me ur secret!! i hate staring at that light

Put SS Wool in the non-fouler holes and then put your O2s back in and this will resolve the issue. Brilo will also work.

Berk will send it for free if you call them. (Great customer service!)

NIZMOZ · 04-13-2009, 10:26 AM

Guys, make note the Stillen ones do NOT have Non-foulers and the HR requires them. You will have to get non-foulers added to them to prevent the engine light from coming on due to PO420 AND PO430 codes. If those don't help which sometimes happens, you can get some SS wool and stick it in the non-foulers to help. Berk took this into their design when they developed theirs. Plus they also have the extra bungs for meters if you wish to add one later.

Just to mention here that I have had my experience with Stillen products in the past and have bought stuff from them since 1995. On the other hand I have recently went with Berk on my HFCs because they have a good history of great customer service! And I have to agree here their customer service is great! Stillen though if you have warranty issues, they try to blame it on other things like your car, and will try to find a way to not warranty the product.

That is all I will say. You guys make the decision.

04-13-2009, 12:05 PM	#6 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	FWIW, I've had zero CELs on my Berk HFCs, and they've been on the car now for about 1,400 miles. Those miles include a wide variety of driving styles as well as several OBD-II driving cycles (my little OBD-II unit shows me driving cycle progress). Obviously in the pictures we have, the Stillen unit doesn't have an extended tube for the O2 like the Berk one does, but I don't know what that really means in terms of results until we get some people independently testing them. gsg740 likes this. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

04-13-2009, 10:26 AM	#15 (permalink)
NIZMOZ Track Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 634 Drives: 07 NISMO 350Z SA M6 Rep Power: 491	Guys, make note the Stillen ones do NOT have Non-foulers and the HR requires them. You will have to get non-foulers added to them to prevent the engine light from coming on due to PO420 AND PO430 codes. If those don't help which sometimes happens, you can get some SS wool and stick it in the non-foulers to help. Berk took this into their design when they developed theirs. Plus they also have the extra bungs for meters if you wish to add one later. Just to mention here that I have had my experience with Stillen products in the past and have bought stuff from them since 1995. On the other hand I have recently went with Berk on my HFCs because they have a good history of great customer service! And I have to agree here their customer service is great! Stillen though if you have warranty issues, they try to blame it on other things like your car, and will try to find a way to not warranty the product. That is all I will say. You guys make the decision. __________________ SOLD: 2007 NISMO 350Z #0044 Silver Alloy New DD: 2010 Titan Pro4X CC

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04-13-2009, 09:04 AM	#13 (permalink)
ssqpolo Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 882 Drives: '12 Black Nismo Rep Power: 268	solismo...my CEL went off within 2 days of driving with my berk test pipes. tell me ur secret!! i hate staring at that light