Originally Posted by wstar You know exactly what the testing methods are, basically none. They're randomly inaccurate. Go to dyno shop, take a few pulls. Get more mods, go back
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
05-14-2009, 12:22 AM | #151 (permalink) | |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cypress Ca
Posts: 69
Drives: 300ZXTT, 350Z, 200SX
Rep Power: 0 |
Quote:
In my experiance there is also usualy a random variance of +-2-5 hp (depending on the car) for factors that are not easy to control or explane. This makes the testing quite imperfect. I also feel that SAE correction is imperfect, espcialy when heat is combined with extreme humidity. In my opinion dynojets have better repeatabilty than load dynos (I suspect that the elertical resistance changes in the coils with heat on eddy current and oil properties like viscosity with temp change on hydralic loaded dynos. Dynojets run "shallower" into the high load cells on the maps and don't accurately represent what loads an engine really sees, one reason why they are not optimal for tuning. I feel that dynojets are the most repeatable but the least accurate for this reason if you know what I mean. So I think its important to try to be as accurate as posible but as you said, no results are going to be perfect. By being careful you can eliminate more than half of the variabilty which is significant. |
|
05-14-2009, 12:30 AM | #152 (permalink) | |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cypress Ca
Posts: 69
Drives: 300ZXTT, 350Z, 200SX
Rep Power: 0 |
Quote:
Your results are pretty consistant, I am wondering why the output for the dynojet chart is so noisy with a smoothing factor of 3. Thats what I usualy uses to make it not look so jagged. What I see is common, (especialy on the SR20 forum) is to do lame stuff like not use SAE correction, then test on a cold day then brag about the numbers while saying that corrected numbers are not real power. I have also seen dishonist shops maunaly screw with the correction and or smoothing numbers to show exagerated power numbers after their tuning or installation of their parts. A common method is to baseline with a high smoothing factor then dyno after tuning with a factor of one which produces higher numbers. Last edited by smartbomb; 05-14-2009 at 12:59 AM. |
|
05-14-2009, 12:43 AM | #153 (permalink) |
A True Z Fanatic
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,024
Drives: too slow
Rep Power: 3594 |
In my case, I did all the parts installs myself and then drove to a shop just to use their dyno, so the shop had no real interest in manipulating my figures.
Back on the subject of the article in question, to fork us off on a different path... The most interesting tidbit I saw in your results was the gain from leaving the bumper off. A few weeks back in colder weather I did some IAT testing driving around Houston with the Stillen Gen3, which you can see here: Intake air temp data (Stillen Gen 3, need stock) Overall I was pretty impressed with it's ability to draw cold air, although it wasn't a perfect match for the air the car's exterior temp sensor was reading. Then again in that colder weather, there wasn't as much heat soak going on in the radiator area either. I could be convinced that some ports like the Mine's ones might help us get fresh air into the Stillen intakes, and it might be worth it. I'd be a little worried about them rolling at slow speeds in heavy rain and wind though (or especially washing the car). I wonder if someone could fab plugs for the Mine's ports so they could be stopped up in heavy rain or when washing. Either that or perhaps someone else will have a new design idea along similar lines. |
05-14-2009, 12:56 AM | #154 (permalink) |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cypress Ca
Posts: 69
Drives: 300ZXTT, 350Z, 200SX
Rep Power: 0 |
I just PM'ed Kyle at Stillen and the interesting thing he told me was that they found no difference when they tested with the bumper on and off.
Out of curiosity, we took the bumper off, saw a huge gain that repeated, then put the bumper back on and it went back to where it was before. Technosquare's dyno has a huge fan the blows hard on the front of the car, not exactly road air flow but pretty darned close. I was thinking one further, heat shields in back of the filters and vents in the front with a snap in cover or some sort of lovers for rain. I fabricated something like that for my Z32 Turbo but I don't have rain covers but I don't drive that car in the rain either. The Stillen intake kills the JWT dual pop, thats for sure, if the bumper is off. It will be interesting to see what happens when others experiment with this. |
05-14-2009, 06:11 AM | #155 (permalink) |
Enthusiast Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 359
Drives: '04 Cavalier
Rep Power: 181 |
Another possible advantage of bumper openings direct into the filters of the Stillen Gen 3 intake is the fact more air volume might make it in, especially when you consider the ram air effect.
With regards to the water, perhaps the bumper inlets could be at the same height as the intake (like Mine's), but more inboard, not in front of the intakes. This would allow (given enough space behind the bumper) for a U shaped pipe with a drain at the bottom to connect from the inlet to the intake filter. That way water would only make it through the first half of the U, and not be able to move up (at least not a significant amount) the second half. |
05-14-2009, 06:52 AM | #156 (permalink) | |
A True Z Fanatic
|
Quote:
__________________
I don't own a car anymore. |
|
05-14-2009, 07:37 AM | #157 (permalink) |
Enthusiast Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 359
Drives: '04 Cavalier
Rep Power: 181 |
Without testing it is hard to know what the airflow behind the plastic bumper looks like, meaning it might be harder for the intake to draw air from where it sits than if it had a more direct source, such as the U tube I suggested. It would be worth trying, for sure, the problem would be closing holes in the bumper if it didn't work too well.
But, based on the Technosquare testing we're discussing, it sounds like they repeatedly saw improvements with the bumper off, and a reduction in power when the bumper went back on, so one would think that the intake is having some difficulty drawing air behind the bumper. That is what I meant by ram air, not that it would be much denser (in Aerospace, the ram air effects are generally negligible until about Mach 0.6), but it would make it easier for the intake to breath. |
05-14-2009, 08:04 AM | #158 (permalink) |
A True Z Fanatic
|
I definitely don't disagree that, even with the Stillen long-tube kit, that it may have issues still getting the optimal cold air. But I think you have to draw a line somewhere, and that line is the safety threshold as far as hydro locking the motor in a rainy situation...
__________________
I don't own a car anymore. |
05-14-2009, 08:45 AM | #159 (permalink) |
A True Z Fanatic
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,024
Drives: too slow
Rep Power: 3594 |
Yeah we're not yet closing in on Mach 0.6
Ram Air is mostly bunk on cars, all it really means is a definite cold air source. As for the filter/hole placement, the Stillen Gen3 filters are near the center when installed. I actually think the Mine's holes, where they're at in the photos, wouldn't be directly over the filters anyways, they'd probably be hitting the pipe just behind each filter. |
05-14-2009, 09:30 AM | #160 (permalink) |
Enthusiast Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 359
Drives: '04 Cavalier
Rep Power: 181 |
wstar, my point exactly, we don't go fast enough for ram air to matter.
Interesting point on the Mine's holes, as I had not imagined the Gen3 intakes would be closer to the center. Perhaps that is the solution already, meaning without water hitting the filter directly, and maybe being even a bit safer and moving the wholes down a little sop the air filter would reside above the openings, would mitigate any chance of water getting in. |
05-14-2009, 10:47 AM | #161 (permalink) |
A True Z Fanatic
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,024
Drives: too slow
Rep Power: 3594 |
Well considering the Mine's install instruction most likely amount to 'cut hole here and stick this in with glue', you can probably adjust the spacing to whatever's most optimal.
|
05-14-2009, 11:08 AM | #163 (permalink) |
A True Z Fanatic
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,024
Drives: too slow
Rep Power: 3594 |
The second (bottom) product on this page is the one:
http://www.mines-wave.com/english/CA.../AIR_SCOOP.htm A quick google search of 'mine's air scoop' shows there are a few sources shipping in the US, but looks like about $1K, which imho is ridiculous for the part. It's basically a pretty liner for two holes you cut in your bumper. I'm sure someone local could custom fabricate a clone far cheaper. |
05-14-2009, 11:16 AM | #165 (permalink) | |
A True Z Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Behind enemy lines
Age: 54
Posts: 5,995
Drives: People to drink
Rep Power: 32 |
Quote:
__________________
"There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) | 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf. |
|
Bookmarks |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Stillen Gen III Ultra Long Tube Intakes Nissan 370Z FREE SHIPPING : IntensePOWER! | INTENSEPOWER | Exhaust/Intake | 206 | 08-27-2010 03:41 PM |
Install of Stillen G3 Intakes complete - review, etc. | semtex | Intake/Exhaust | 83 | 06-23-2010 01:19 PM |
STILLEN Gen 3 Intakes Released! | Josh@STILLEN | Intake/Exhaust | 45 | 04-17-2009 05:20 PM |
JWT Pop Chargers - Pictures - Review - Dyno | RCZ | Intake/Exhaust | 31 | 03-30-2009 10:50 AM |
Z Rally Impressions | shizzawha | Nissan 370Z General Discussions | 18 | 12-06-2008 11:58 PM |