HPS Intake Tubes

WhiskeyHotel · 02-07-2011, 05:15 PM

Yea - if you are careful, it can be done without unplugging the MAF at all.

6spd · 02-07-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GZ3

allot of guys will tell you K&N, but i personally went with AFE dry flow...much better imho

agreed, when i get rid of these kn's, they will be AFE.

Jordo! · 02-07-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spd

agreed, when i get rid of these kn's, they will be AFE.

I would keep the K&N's or perhaps try the AFE oiled filters.

All the currently available dry flow filters on the market are superior only when caked with dirt.

Note that AEM shows a graph of this on their website (they call your attention away from that, but it is clear as day if you review the graph carefully) and even AFE points out that their oiled filter is superior for performance to the dry flow.

Unless you have filters utterly filled with gunk (i.e., off road or enduro racing), the oiled ones still win for flow with only marginally poorer dirt filtration.

As to the need for the marginally better filtration, unless you get a UOA that shows high sillicon (after break in is completed) or have a gunked MAF sensor, you can assume that it's working fine and take the better flowing one.

GZ3 · 02-07-2011, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

I would keep the K&N's or perhaps try the AFE oiled filters.

All the currently available dry flow filters on the market are superior only when caked with dirt.

Note that AEM shows a graph of this on their website (they call your attention away from that, but it is clear as day if you review the graph carefully) and even AFE points out that their oiled filter is superior for performance to the dry flow.

Unless you have filters utterly filled with gunk (i.e., off road or enduro racing), the oiled ones still win for flow with only marginally poorer dirt filtration.

As to the need for the marginally better filtration, unless you get a UOA that shows high sillicon (after break in is completed) or have a gunked MAF sensor, you can assume that it's working fine and take the better flowing one.

sorry man its all over thier website why AEM chooses DRY FLOW vs oiled on thier winning racing teams.

The Best Filtration AEM has reinvented the Lifetime performance aftermarket air filter. Our DRYFLOW Synthetic filter is the first performance air filter that does not require filter oil to filter and trap dirt and contaminants, and delivers industry leading filtration and durability that is unmatched by our competitors.

AEM’s DRYFLOW Synthetic filter eliminates the hassle of re-oiling after cleaning and has better filtration and dust trapping capabilities than any other performance aftermarket filter. AEM's unique non-woven polyester element filters out 98.6% of airborne dust in initial efficiency (99.4% cumulative efficiency), and filters down to ONE MICRON of particulate! For comparison, a human hair is about 100 microns thick. This improved efficiency translates into longer engine life by keeping more ring- and seal-eating dirt out of your engine, with no degradation in engine power compared to our oiled air filters. taken direclty from thier website

GZ3 · 02-07-2011, 06:02 PM

I've talk to too many people, engine builders, ect...all say dry flow is the way to go

Jordo! · 02-07-2011, 06:07 PM

AEM begs to differ. This is a graph they used to have on their website. Note that the dry flow outperforms only when there is a ton of dirt on it. A clean to moderately K&N flows better.

Actually, according to AEM, K&N also outflows all the AFE filters too...

100 grams of dirt is a lot of dirt (about 1 cup!). The moral is, clean your K&N more frequently.

If this graph is no longer there, it's probably because others noticed this fine point too... can't sell filters when you clearly demonstrate it aint all that it's claimed to be.

The major advantage of the dry material, at least at this point in the tech, is no oiling. The advantage in filtration is marginal and the perfromance benefits mainly emerge when it is caked with dirt (>120 grams).

They aren't bad, but they definitely aren't better when reasonably clean.

GZ3 · 02-07-2011, 07:31 PM

1 graph proves nothing. When speaking on filters constructed in the same exact way i.e. layers, materials, a dry flow filter (brandless) will out flow an oiled filter every time. There is TONS of sceintific evidence to back this up,especially military testing that proves this. Lots of flow bench testing, and pressure drop testing. Its very easy to get confused and works in favor of K&N to talk about Oiled vs Dry becasue the construction is never consistent across the board for a true and accurate measure. Given an equal measure, dry filters out flow oiled ones everytime.

Jordo! · 02-07-2011, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GZ3

1 graph proves nothing. When speaking on filters constructed in the same exact way i.e. layers, materials, a dry flow filter (brandless) will out flow an oiled filter every time. There is TONS of sceintific evidence to back this up,especially military testing that proves this. Lots of flow bench testing, and pressure drop testing. Its very easy to get confused and works in favor of K&N to talk about Oiled vs Dry becasue the construction is never consistent across the board for a true and accurate measure. Given an equal measure, dry filters out flow oiled ones everytime.

Okay... dude, use whatever makes you happy

If you have any of that data you mentioned handy, I'd be interested to see it.

You gave me the AEM sales pitch and I responded with an interesting table they used to have on their website that points to an alternate conclusion -- at least with less than 120 grams of dirt packed on the filter.

Again, that graph did not come from K&N -- it came from AEM. If it's inaccurate, blame them, but it clearly shows that their filter media is superior in flow only with 120 grams or more dirt packed on.

PL8MYRIDE.COM · 02-07-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

I heard no appreciable difference in intake note. Should net you another 3- 5 whp at various points in the rev range.

Yep, except maybe for the resonated ones, all aftermarket TP's and cats are raspy as hell around 2700-2800 RPM, especially when cold.

Thanks Jordo.
-KS

PL8MYRIDE.COM · 02-07-2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spd

only a little, it was audible to me, but just barely. worth it anyway since you have the drop ins.

Thanks 6SPD, I'll order a set too. You guys seems to be pretty happy with it.
-KS

henry0844 · 02-07-2011, 08:29 PM

let's keep on subject fellas. we r supposed to be discussing the hps postmaf tubes. filtration by different filters is a whole other thread.

6spd · 02-07-2011, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henry0844

let's keep on subject fellas. we r supposed to be discussing the hps postmaf tubes. filtration by different filters is a whole other thread.

right on. back on topic, i wish the tubes came with better clamps. the ones you get are so awkward and clumsy... and in the way... and annoying... and irritating...

Mr. Q · 02-07-2011, 10:21 PM

Just a heads up for anyone ordering the afe dry filters from amazon; they are saying part # 31-10010 fits the 370z when it clearly does not. Now I have to return two filters. The correct part number of 31-10173 comes courtesy of GZ3.

GZ3 · 02-07-2011, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Okay... dude, use whatever makes you happy

If you have any of that data you mentioned handy, I'd be interested to see it.

You gave me the AEM sales pitch and I responded with an interesting table they used to have on their website that points to an alternate conclusion -- at least with less than 120 grams of dirt packed on the filter.

Again, that graph did not come from K&N -- it came from AEM. If it's inaccurate, blame them, but it clearly shows that their filter media is superior in flow only with 120 grams or more dirt packed on.

here are a few, some good reads simply examples of dry out performing K&N oiled...since K&N is pretty much the pinnacle of oiled filters. There Sooo many companies coming out with thier own dry filters that are beating K&N left and right...oil is gonna be phased out soon...its just old school

http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/

Amsoil Cold Air Induction Filters replace K&N

KLR air filter test

Foam Filter vs. Gauze Filter vs. Dry Filter - Kawasaki Teryx Forum

^ post 3 has a good you tube video

theres also a couple of youtube videos that really explain the dry vs oiled that i cant find

I have tons of SAE/ISO testing data available at my job too if you want, PM me...i dont want to jack this thread any more...sorry guys

Jordo! · 02-07-2011, 11:14 PM

^^^ thanks, dude -- I'll check them out

02-07-2011, 06:02 PM	#65 (permalink)
GZ3 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: SATX Posts: 3,296 Drives: Z Rep Power: 22	I've talk to too many people, engine builders, ect...all say dry flow is the way to go __________________ 09 GT-R 12' 370Z 7AT HANDED DOWN 12'+13' 5.0 SOLD

02-07-2011, 06:07 PM	#66 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	AEM begs to differ. This is a graph they used to have on their website. Note that the dry flow outperforms only when there is a ton of dirt on it. A clean to moderately K&N flows better. Actually, according to AEM, K&N also outflows all the AFE filters too... 100 grams of dirt is a lot of dirt (about 1 cup!). The moral is, clean your K&N more frequently. If this graph is no longer there, it's probably because others noticed this fine point too... can't sell filters when you clearly demonstrate it aint all that it's claimed to be. The major advantage of the dry material, at least at this point in the tech, is no oiling. The advantage in filtration is marginal and the perfromance benefits mainly emerge when it is caked with dirt (>120 grams). They aren't bad, but they definitely aren't better when reasonably clean. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it. Last edited by Jordo!; 02-07-2011 at 06:21 PM.

02-07-2011, 07:31 PM	#67 (permalink)
GZ3 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: SATX Posts: 3,296 Drives: Z Rep Power: 22	1 graph proves nothing. When speaking on filters constructed in the same exact way i.e. layers, materials, a dry flow filter (brandless) will out flow an oiled filter every time. There is TONS of sceintific evidence to back this up,especially military testing that proves this. Lots of flow bench testing, and pressure drop testing. Its very easy to get confused and works in favor of K&N to talk about Oiled vs Dry becasue the construction is never consistent across the board for a true and accurate measure. Given an equal measure, dry filters out flow oiled ones everytime. __________________ 09 GT-R 12' 370Z 7AT HANDED DOWN 12'+13' 5.0 SOLD

02-07-2011, 11:14 PM	#75 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	^^^ thanks, dude -- I'll check them out __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

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02-07-2011, 05:15 PM	#61 (permalink)
WhiskeyHotel Track Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 530 Drives: 2015 GT-R PW Premium Rep Power: 17	Yea - if you are careful, it can be done without unplugging the MAF at all.

02-07-2011, 08:29 PM	#71 (permalink)
henry0844 Base Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: ventura Posts: 167 Drives: 10 370 base sprt pkg Rep Power: 15	let's keep on subject fellas. we r supposed to be discussing the hps postmaf tubes. filtration by different filters is a whole other thread.

02-07-2011, 10:21 PM	#73 (permalink)
Mr. Q Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 349 Drives: 09 MB 370z Rep Power: 15	Just a heads up for anyone ordering the afe dry filters from amazon; they are saying part # 31-10010 fits the 370z when it clearly does not. Now I have to return two filters. The correct part number of 31-10173 comes courtesy of GZ3.